NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[Pettibon Junction]

The problem with the rag = suicide theory is that Maura was seen outside the vehicle following the accident. After talking to Butch Atwood, she disappeared. If she was placing the rag to kill herself, it wouldn't have made sense to do so at the scene of the crash in full view of several houses and knowing that Atwood was watching but if that were the plan, you'd think she would have remained with her car. Further, I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone utilizing carbon monoxide as a means of suicide while actually driving and if the rag were in place before she got on the road, I can't imagine she would have gotten as far as she did without stalling.

 

[Caffeine]

Suicide by carbon monoxide usually entails a hose from the muffler to a slightly open window or parking in an enclosed garage, windows down, car running for several hours. I don't think this was the case with the rag....

 

[scoops]

Suicide by carbon monoxide usually entails a hose from the muffler to a slightly open window or parking in an enclosed garage, windows down, car running for several hours. I don't think this was the case with the rag....

it almost really doesn't matter. Because the lead investigator on the case is actually the person to suggest the rag in the tailpipe as a possible suicide attempt which IMO likely means, he personally confronted fred about it, at a point in which Fred was in major regret mode that he ever even put in the mind of investigators that his daughter might be a danger to herself.

I personally think it's a silly way to try and end your life, but I don't believe its impossible.

Not just the Buckwild instance, but there have been may other innocent deaths caused by carbon monoxide poisoning.

I remember reading about a older gentleman who was scraping his windows during a snowstorm (and his exhaust was plugged with snow) and by the time he got his windows cleared off, his grand-daughter had passed away sitting in the car.

So it can happen, but in Maura's situation, she wouldn't have had time.

There is rumor (not proven) that she had one of her back seat windows cracked open, but I have not been able to confirm that as fact.

Plus it would really depend (in her situation) whether or not her car could start after her wreck.

Many cars will not start for a period of several minutes after a wreck (some safety mechanism),

However, one of the witnesses that night, believes Maura backed her car up after the wreck, so it's possible the car still started.

I don't know.

 

[scoops]

The problem with the rag = suicide theory is that Maura was seen outside the vehicle following the accident. After talking to Butch Atwood, she disappeared. If she was placing the rag to kill herself, it wouldn't have made sense to do so at the scene of the crash in full view of several houses and knowing that Atwood was watching but if that were the plan, you'd think she would have remained with her car. Further, I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone utilizing carbon monoxide as a means of suicide while actually driving and if the rag were in place before she got on the road, I can't imagine she would have gotten as far as she did without stalling.

It wasn't about Maura's execution of a suicide.

it was about what the lead investigator of her disappearance believed the rag in the tailpipe meant and what happened when he brought that up to Fred. and why fred gave such a weird (explain it away) type of answer.

Maura's car may not have even started back up after the wreck.

But Maura may have not known that until she took the rag plugged her tailpipe and went back to the car and attempted to start her car.

It could've still been a failed suicide attempt, that was halted because the car wouldn't start for her and time was running out.

Fred gives the odd answer for the rag in the tailpipe because he was put on the spot and felt that he had to explain it away.

Fred's explanation of having Maura hide smoke, makes no lick of sense.

 

[Steleheart]

Maybe I wasn't clear - I don't think she "staged" the accident, I think she stuffed the tail pipe afterward to use it as an excuse for the actual accident and take the focus off her drinking and previous accident, etc.

If Fred had not said he knew about the rag she could have used it as some sort of vandalism that caused her to crash. She left the keys in it, she knew they would start it and it would stall IMO

Replying to myself - apologies;

Correction -I was under the impression the keys were left in the car. I don't know where I got that now.

 

[Caffeine]

Over at Renner's blog there is a new posting of a retired NH LE officer who is alleging, on Facebook, that NH police know Maura was murdered, they know who did it and she is buried under the suspects house. However they lack probable cause to do anything about it.

Interesting, but the officer has a questionable background to say the least.

 

[scoops]

Over at Renner's blog there is a new posting of a retired NH LE officer who is alleging, on Facebook, that NH police know Maura was murdered, they know who did it and she is buried under the suspects house. However they lack probable cause to do anything about it.

Interesting, but the officer has a questionable background to say the least.

The one wrong house to go to after the wreck to seek help in that area, IMO, would've been that of the contractors.

However, it's tough to believe this info.

Police have been to that residence twice since the contractor moved out and have had permission to search the grounds by the new owners of the house/land. I would assume they could've dug up the ground if they had any sort of detection to work off of.

Maura's scent was lost right near this contractors land, but again, the dog search that was initially done was done with the pretense that the dog's range of tracking scent was going to be very limited. And the spot where the dog lost the scent did not come as a surprise to the investigators. It matched with the radius that they thought the dog would have begun to lose the scent from anyways (the intersection of Rt 112 and Bradly hill rd).

 

[Caffeine]

It seems like there is a good chance the person in question here is in fact the contractor, Rick F.

At least the mention of the "new house" made me think of him. He did, as mentioned before, sell the property and move.

It is an interesting allegation from the retired cop for sure and a few things did stick about Rick - refusing to consent to a search, odd comments about Maura, comments from his ex wife about murdering Maura, claiming he may have seen her elsewhere that night.

Police obviously had some suspicion here...they came in pretty quick to search after the property was sold.

Maybe Fred had an inclination about this. It would explain his odd remark on the Montel show about Maura being "right down the street" and police not realizing that.

Maybe, maybe not...

 

[Fireweed]

Okay....I'm not sure why finding a body underneath the suspect's house would not be seen as a really great way to get a conviction by the prosecutors, but what do I know?

 

[trenchmouth]

It seems like there is a good chance the person in question here is in fact the contractor, Rick F.

At least the mention of the "new house" made me think of him. He did, as mentioned before, sell the property and move.

It is an interesting allegation from the retired cop for sure and a few things did stick about Rick - refusing to consent to a search, odd comments about Maura, comments from his ex wife about murdering Maura, claiming he may have seen her elsewhere that night.

Police obviously had some suspicion here...they came in pretty quick to search after the property was sold.

Maybe Fred had an inclination about this. It would explain his odd remark on the Montel show about Maura being "right down the street" and police not realizing that.

Maybe, maybe not...

Is RF the weird guy making crappy music videos on You Tube? One of his videos is called The Stalker. Hmmmmm

 

[scoops]

Okay....I'm not sure why finding a body underneath the suspect's house would not be seen as a really great way to get a conviction by the prosecutors, but what do I know?

the lead investigator has also stated that the most likely scenario is that Maura caught a ride with someone out of the area.

I don't know why he would throw that out there, if they truly believed Maura didn't make it but a few hundred feet from where she had her car accident.

 

[Steleheart]

Over at Renner's blog there is a new posting of a retired NH LE officer who is alleging, on Facebook, that NH police know Maura was murdered, they know who did it and she is buried under the suspects house. However they lack probable cause to do anything about it.

Interesting, but the officer has a questionable background to say the least.

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2014/2014096conrad.pdf
According to the court record this former NHSP Trooper making these statements has major problems. He threatened suicide, suicide by cop, threatened to shoot a cop, etc. I have no doubt that he holds a major grudge against NHSP. I don't get a credible feel from this after all these years - where's he been? It sounds more like a smear against the NHDS rather than concern for MM.

MOO

 

[Caffeine]

Okay....I'm not sure why finding a body underneath the suspect's house would not be seen as a really great way to get a conviction by the prosecutors, but what do I know?

He seems to alluding to the idea that police don't have enough probable cause to get a search warrant and potentially find a buried body at the house.

If he is indeed talking about Forcier, he might be alleging she's under his new house, not the dilapidated trailer he previously had.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Is RF the weird guy making crappy music videos on You Tube? One of his videos is called The Stalker. Hmmmmm

No, RF is a Woodsville local and supposedly the last person to have seen Maura on the night of her accident. The YouTube weirdo is from the Amherst, MA area and was very active on Topix back in the day. His online handle is/was Beagle and he used to post bizarre, conspiratorial ravings about how UMass medical researchers are killing young women and harvesting stem cells or something.

 

[trenchmouth]

No, RF is a Woodsville local and supposedly the last person to have seen Maura on the night of her accident. The YouTube weirdo is from the Amherst, MA area and was very active on Topix back in the day. His online handle is/was Beagle and he used to post bizarre, conspiratorial ravings about how UMass medical researchers are killing young women and harvesting stem cells or something.

Check again please, you are referring to AO the creep making weird videos. Search You Tube for RF and several videos come up of him singing and playing guitar.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Check again please, you are referring to AO the creep making weird videos. Search You Tube for RF and several videos come up of him singing and playing guitar.

My mistake. I forgot RF made videos, too.

 

[JamesRenner]

Latest podcast episode is pretty cool. Nice job, Scoops!

 

[BillNH]

I posted this a few pages back but it seems fitting here again.

~In addition to this, in 2007, a group also searched the Construction Worker's (the guy who saw a person several miles further east on 112 that night but didn't report it for a few months) property on the corner of Bradley Hill Road and 112. It was searched on 3 different occasions over a the course of a couple months, with cadaver dogs on one occasion. They searched inside the home that was at the time of Maura's disappearance was under construction. They searched the attic and crawl spaces in the home and all the outbuildings and around the entire property. The new owners allowed this search when they were approached after they had bought the property. I know them personally so there is no public verification of this. They had posted that there was a search briefly on the MM Facebook page, then removed it when I explained to them about the high level of interest in this case as they do not wish to be bothered by anyone. I did get the details from them later on. They were told that the searchers found nothing of interest and they would not be back again.

~the house is of course RF's, they really did a thorough search including removing light fixtures. And cadaver dogs around the entire property. I think this ex trooper is off the mark, and has a different agenda. Considering how close RF lived near the accident scene, his odd sighting, his ex wife's comments to police and his own ill advised remarks in reference to Maura, it seems ridiculous to me that they would have been denied a search warrant. They are relatively easy to get with very little probable cause. I don't think RF was ever a serious suspect but one that needed to be checked off the list eventually, which they did.

 

[Steleheart]

I posted this a few pages back but it seems fitting here again.

~In addition to this, in 2007, a group also searched the Construction Worker's (the guy who saw a person several miles further east on 112 that night but didn't report it for a few months) property on the corner of Bradley Hill Road and 112. It was searched on 3 different occasions over a the course of a couple months, with cadaver dogs on one occasion. They searched inside the home that was at the time of Maura's disappearance was under construction. They searched the attic and crawl spaces in the home and all the outbuildings and around the entire property. The new owners allowed this search when they were approached after they had bought the property. I know them personally so there is no public verification of this. They had posted that there was a search briefly on the MM Facebook page, then removed it when I explained to them about the high level of interest in this case as they do not wish to be bothered by anyone. I did get the details from them later on. They were told that the searchers found nothing of interest and they would not be back again.

~the house is of course RF's, they really did a thorough search including removing light fixtures. And cadaver dogs around the entire property. I think this ex trooper is off the mark, and has a different agenda. Considering how close RF lived near the accident scene, his odd sighting, his ex wife's comments to police and his own ill advised remarks in reference to Maura, it seems ridiculous to me that they would have been denied a search warrant. They are relatively easy to get with very little probable cause. I don't think RF was ever a serious suspect but one that needed to be checked off the list eventually, which they did.

BBM;
MY OPINION ONLY.
Agree completely. The court documents show that this ex-trooper is and should be an ex-trooper. Having threatened to shoot cops, to grab a cop's gun, to shoot himself, well he has no credibility IMO and an obvious agenda to smear NH Dept. of Safety.
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2014/2014096conrad.pdf

This is the only LE link I have but unless someone has proof then people like this "retired" trooper and the internet in general, need to stop slandering RF. IMO he would have a very good basis for legal action.

When I find a link pertaining to the searches there I will post it.

MOO

 

[Caffeine]

The thing is, we really don't know who he's referring to. It may very well not be RF, we don't know.

I know his credibility is questionable but you really have to wonder...this is a silly way to smear NH police. His only claim seems to be they know of a valid suspect but don't have evidence to back it up. He doesn't seem to be saying the local police are outright idiots...