NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[Sternocleidomastoid]

With this new claim of a buried body swimming around in my head, something occurred to me about the recent changes to James Renner's book concept. If the case is solved in the next seven or so months, a book that doesn't wrap up the story would be quite the lame duck. I have to wonder if the investigation has gained enough momentum that the publisher now sees this as a real risk. Promoting the book as the story of Renner's life as an investigative journalist could be a way to hedge their bets.

It's also entirely possible that the repercussions of Renner's tenacious pursuit of truth in this case simply make for a story that will sell more books. I've been turned off before when true crime books inject too much of the investigators' personal lives, but suspect this is done so the reader doesn't feel like they are indulging in crime *advertiser censored*, so to speak. Renner has, I could argue rightfully, dug up a lot of dirt on an individual who, barring a Vasi hit and run, didn't commit any heinous crimes. Judging by the unusual backlash up to this point, the average reader might need a better understanding of Renner's motives lest they see his investigation as picking on a troubled young woman.

What do you all think? I haven't been able to keep up with this wonderful discussion recently, so I hope that I'm not rehashing an idea that's already been discussed.

 

[Sternocleidomastoid]

While I'm at it, I have one other question that's been baffling me. On numerous occasions, I've encountered speculation that Maura put a rag in her tailpipe to "help her crash her car." I can see carbon monoxide poisoning as a reasonable explanation here, but the the implication often seems to be that stalling the engine would "help" her crash. How in the world would a stalled engine make it any easier to crash a car? My best guess is that the power steering would cut out, but I've never seen this discussed.

 

[nycpizzaparty]

I personally do not think this speculation has merit. If Maura wanted to cause a car accident, all she had to do was steer the car off the road or brake hard on ice, etc. If she stuffed a rag in the tailpipe, my understanding of mechanics is that this very well could cause the car to have problems and possibly crash as a result. The problem in that scenario lies in her probable inability to control the crash. Let's say she wanted to just crash the car but not kill herself or someone else. If she had no control of the car due to the rag causing a stall/breakdown, she would be risking potentially getting into a far worse accident, let's say the car careening across a median and crashing head-on into a truck.

As for the suicide theory, stuffing a rag in a tailpipe during a drive is one very odd way to try to go out. I could see if the car was pulled into a remote spot and she stuffed the tailpipe and sat there waiting to be overcome. That being said, I don't think even works; my understanding is that you need to pipe the gas from the tailpipe back into the cabin, or do this in an enclosed space with the windows open or something like this.

I think the rag was stuffed in there after the accident, which I do not think was on purpose. Maybe it was a signal to someone or maybe she for some reason wanted to hide that rag. I know that Maura may not have been acting in a rational manner and assuming clear logic may be presumptive, but these two theories seem unlikely in my opinion.

 

[scoops]

I personally do not think this speculation has merit. If Maura wanted to cause a car accident, all she had to do was steer the car off the road or brake hard on ice, etc. If she stuffed a rag in the tailpipe, my understanding of mechanics is that this very well could cause the car to have problems and possibly crash as a result. The problem in that scenario lies in her probable inability to control the crash. Let's say she wanted to just crash the car but not kill herself or someone else. If she had no control of the car due to the rag causing a stall/breakdown, she would be risking potentially getting into a far worse accident, let's say the car careening across a median and crashing head-on into a truck.

As for the suicide theory, stuffing a rag in a tailpipe during a drive is one very odd way to try to go out. I could see if the car was pulled into a remote spot and she stuffed the tailpipe and sat there waiting to be overcome. That being said, I don't think even works; my understanding is that you need to pipe the gas from the tailpipe back into the cabin, or do this in an enclosed space with the windows open or something like this.

I think the rag was stuffed in there after the accident, which I do not think was on purpose. Maybe it was a signal to someone or maybe she for some reason wanted to hide that rag. I know that Maura may not have been acting in a rational manner and assuming clear logic may be presumptive, but these two theories seem unlikely in my opinion.

Maura's car likely wouldn't start after she wrecked, (because of a safety mechanism built in the car) but she very likely may not have known that.

I believe a theory law enforcement had was that Maura plugged her tailpipe after the wreck as a way to try and take her own life.

But once she got back in her car and attempted to start it (and it wouldn't) she shifted to the plan of just getting away from the accident scene.

All the other scenarios involving the rag (she put it there while driving to help cause a wreck) or (some dirtbag got into her car trunk grabbed a rag (that they somehow would've known was in the trunk to begin with) and placed the rag in the tailpipe, so they could cause Maura to crash up the road and be in a position to swoop in and grab her ---- make no sense.

Her putting a rag in the tailpipe to alert family members or whatever kind of tag she was supposedly doing, makes little sense since the rag was jammed into the tailpipe.

 

[Steleheart]

While I'm at it, I have one other question that's been baffling me. On numerous occasions, I've encountered speculation that Maura put a rag in her tailpipe to "help her crash her car." I can see carbon monoxide poisoning as a reasonable explanation here, but the the implication often seems to be that stalling the engine would "help" her crash. How in the world would a stalled engine make it any easier to crash a car? My best guess is that the power steering would cut out, but I've never seen this discussed.

Just 5 days ago I broached that topic;
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...verhill-9-Feb-2004-12&p=12019722#post12019722

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...verhill-9-Feb-2004-12&p=12020084#post12020084

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...verhill-9-Feb-2004-12&p=12020130#post12020130

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...verhill-9-Feb-2004-12&p=12020932#post12020932

 

[Sternocleidomastoid]

I didn't mean to drag out the old chestnut that is the rag in the tailpipe, but want to thank you all for humoring me and I apologize to Steleheart who had some good points just two pages ago.

The problem in that scenario lies in her probable inability to control the crash.

This is the crux of my confusion. I suppose that if one could press a button to stall their car's engine at a precise moment going into a turn, it might assist in crashing a car. Otherwise, a stall at any random moment would be of little benefit.

While it may not be directly relevant to Maura, this is probably a good time to draw upon my decent amount of medical experience and knowledge. I spent thousands of hours in a trauma center prior to medical school. There, I witnessed the aftermath of several patients who attempted suicide by crashing their cars. We're talking about a limited sample size here, but their MO was always to take an overdose of some sedative(s) shortly before getting behind the wheel to drive into a tree, off a cliff, or something like that. Granted, I only saw the poor souls who lived long enough to make it to the trauma bay, but it struck me as a brutal and unreliable way to commit suicide. Yet, to my surprise, many people seem to have independently decided to attempt suicide by that mechanism.

Interestingly, my understanding is that Maura had in her possession Tylenol PM, which contains 25 mg of Benadryl (diphenhydramine) per pill. I occasionally take 2x25 mg Benadryl pills as a sleep aid. Within an hour, I become so sedated, tired, and uninhibited that I wouldn't operate a motor vehicle in any non-emergent circumstance. Alcohol potentiates these effects.

In my opinion, it's unlikely that Maura's crash itself was a suicide attempt, but my point is that it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

...my understanding is that you need to pipe the gas from the tailpipe back into the cabin, or do this in an enclosed space with the windows open or something like this.

This is my understanding too and is most likely correct. However, carbon monoxide (CO) is a unique poison. To put it simply, CO blocks valuable oxygen binding sites in the blood and any CO that binds isn't going anywhere for a long time. So a large amount of CO infused over 5 minutes could have the same effect as a constant infusion of a smaller amount over 2 hours. I spent a few minutes investigating the plausibility of this situation and I can only say that I still find it unlikely, but can't rule out sedation via CO poisoning. I certainly wouldn't count on it if I wanted to die.

I believe a theory law enforcement had was that Maura plugged her tailpipe after the wreck as a way to try and take her own life.

But once she got back in her car and attempted to start it (and it wouldn't) she shifted to the plan of just getting away from the accident scene.

I've never heard this theory, but find it quite intriguing, thank you! The efficacy of suicide methods is understandably not the easiest thing to Google and it makes me too sad to venture into the forums where I know this discussion takes place tonight, but I'd say this is a plausible mechanism to attempt with no faster suicide method in reach.

Overall, the whole rag thing is such a strange piece of evidence that I sometimes wonder if it's a red herring. Like maybe someone put it in there after the fact as a misguided attempt to stop a leak or something. Fred, covering for a situation that he wasn't fully aware of, later tried to explain it away. I'm really stretching here because no explanation is especially logical.

 

[Sutton]

Maura's life had been sliding out of control for some time. She was caught stealing at West Point. She was caught stealing at UMass. She reportedly suffered from bulimia.
Maura spoke with her sister Kathleen on the phone on the last night Maura worked at the dorm. Maybe her sister was not easy on her (high expectations). Maura then spoke to Billy, and I don't think that conversation went well.
I believe Maura had always considered suicide a possibility, but at this point began to seriously contemplate it. She then wrecked her dad's new car.
I think Maura decided to put her plan in place, maybe not fully committed, but 75%. She packed her dorm. She emailed her teachers/employers. She returned borrowed items. She wrote (printed) Billy a goodbye note (if you've ever contemplated suicide or been close to someone who committed suicide, you would immediately recognize this as a 'last communication').
Maura drove to a place which held good memories for her. She started drinking and maybe she took Tylenol PM. She plugged the tail pipe of her car.
Carbon monoxide poisoning is a peaceful death. Maybe it would be enough CO to kill her as people do die when their exhaust is plugged by snow in snow storms (also the outside air intake would be off). I think Maura would have parked somewhere, a pull-off or driveway and further blocked her exhaust, drinking until she fell asleep.
Just MO, but if I were going to commit suicide this is EXACTLY how I'd do it.
P.S. I'm not, someone I love did, and I know the pain it puts on the living.

 

[Fireweed]

Is it possible that the 10ish phone call to Kathleen and the midnight phone call to her BF are connected? Let's say Kathleen told her something bad about Billy or something like that. Or maybe Kathleen was just too hard on Maura at a time Maura was really fragile. Then from 1030 to midnight the dorm security is busy with students coming back for the night (that makes sense to me) and Maura does not have time to have a conversation with Billy until after midnight. Maybe Billy confirmed something Kathleen said. I dunno, just a thought.

 

[Caffeine]

That's one part of the puzzle that's tough to figure out. Did a phone call make Maura upset? Was it something prior to her calls that evening?

To me, the most curious part about her phone record is why she pinged off of a Londonderry, NH cell tower when her travel route didn't seem to be anywhere close to that area.

This case drives me nuts. It's one big mystery intertwined with 100 or so other smaller mysteries.

 

[coolaid213]

I read about this story a long time ago on Wikipedia, but I didn't really get interested in it until I found WebSleuths recently. Over the past couple of weeks I've spent hours reading everyone's comments, and there is no one theory that calls out to me more than the other. I find this story very perplexing, much like the Brandon Lawson case. At first I felt suicide was the least likely scenario, then I read someone mention that Maura had Tylenol PM. If that's true, I think the suicide angle is slightly more plausible. If she took a handful of those she would not have been able to help falling asleep, even in frigid cold weather. If you take enough diphenhydramine, it'll knock you out no matter how much you try to fight it. I can't imagine anyone choosing suicide by hypothermia, without some sort of sedative. I'm still on the fence though, and I'd like to share some random thoughts that I have.

First of all, someone pointed out way back in this thread that many times when cases like these are finally solved, the outcome is the one least likely suspected. I think this is because people have a tendency to focus on one or two pieces of "evidence" that they feel overwhelm everything else, and they jump to conclusions. For example, I feel some posters have been a bit to aggressive in insisting that this was a suicide... almost as if to downplay investigating any other scenarios. I think all of us would like to get to the truth, no matter what it is, so focusing explicitly one theory doesn't really help much, unless you happen to be right...

I feel like a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about stuff that we can't possibly know... for example, her mental state, her motivations, etc. Also, I can think of all kinds of variables that haven't been mentioned yet. For example, when discussing the possibility that she was involved in the Petrit Vasi accident, no one has mentioned the possibility that someone else may have been driving her car when Vasi was struck. Of course, there is no evidence of this, but it is a possibility that should be considered. Someone did mention the possibility that someone else was driving her car when it hit the snowbank, none of the witnesses were absolutely convinced that she was the one in the car that night. That is an unlikely scenario as well, but still something that must be considered.

I did a little digging and found the weather conditions for Haverhill, NH. on the night she disappeared. There was an average temperature of 9°F, with lows just below zero. There was little to no wind that night, and unless the weather stations were malfunctioning, it was not snowing at that time. Even if she was drunk and depressed, I can't imagine the most desperate person choosing to freeze to death in 9 degree weather (unless of course she was passing out from the Tylenol PM).

The more I read, the more questions I have. If you believe the suicide theory, how do you think she was planning on committing suicide before the accident? Did she really think a rag in the tailpipe in combination with the Tylenol PM would do the trick? How much gas was in her tank when the car was found? What make of Saturn was it? Some Saturns don't have a mercury switch cutoff for the fuel pump. Why would search dogs not be able to track her beyond 100 yards if she left her scent there? Why would her scent be stronger where she stood at 50 yards, compared to where she was standing at 100? It's not like she loses scent as she keeps walking.

One of the things that troubles me, but I respect, is that we can't talk about family. I understand victim bashing is not allowed, but in reality isn't everyone a potential suspect until we find out what actually happened? I don't want to get in trouble, so I'll leave it there. Hopefully I can say that much.

If someone put a gun to my head and I had to pick... I'd be dead because I can't pick. If I had to eliminate one theory, I would probably still eliminate the suicide theory. I am totally willing to accept that's what happened, but to me it seems the least likely. It seems like if she was really suicidal, she could have found an easier and faster way to do it. Why research places to live in Vermont if you were planning on committing suicide a couple days later? Doesn't it seem like the White Mountains were supposed to be a pit-stop on the way to where she was going? If she loved the White Mountains and had been looking into a place in northern Vermont, the Mountains would have been on her way. My gut tells me that she was picked up very shortly after the accident, either by an accomplice or someone who meant her harm. I plan on doing a lot more research on this case, I look forward to reading the comments to come.

Oh, by the way. I was just reminded of something that happened with a co-worker of mine. He was an alcoholic with similar problems to what Maura was facing. One day, he just disappeared, his apartment had been packed up, and he and his car disappeared. We had no idea what happened until days later when we got a call from the state police saying that he had been stopped at the Florida/Georgia line with a car full of booze and a bottle of vodka in his hand. Later we learned that his plan was to drive to Michigan and start a new life... so this theory is definitely not far fetched...

 

[scoops]

That's one part of the puzzle that's tough to figure out. Did a phone call make Maura upset? Was it something prior to her calls that evening?

To me, the most curious part about her phone record is why she pinged off of a Londonderry, NH cell tower when her travel route didn't seem to be anywhere close to that area.

This case drives me nuts. It's one big mystery intertwined with 100 or so other smaller mysteries.

her cell phone never pinged off a tower in Londonderry NH.

The affidavit request in question by law enforcement was supposedly for a phone call made by someone else to maura's phone that involved the tower in Londonderry NH.

I have always believed that the affidavit request made by an officer was filled out wrong, because the above scenario doesn't make much sense.

To further complicate the matter, there is a Londonderry Vermont, which Maura would've driven within range of if she in fact did go the believed route (I-91N to the 302) that she is to have taken.

 

[coolaid213]

Every time I go over the details of this case, I pick out new things that I didn't think of last time. I'm sitting here thinking about the various descriptions of the alcohol that she purchased. If she was planning on committing suicide when she got to the White Mountains, then why did she purchase $40 worth of booze? Let's break this down, using current dollars without adjusting for inflation. Since there have been various accounts of the type of booze she bought I'm going to disregard that and focus on the amount of money she is said to have spent on alcohol. Ok, $40 will buy two 1.75 liter bottles of the average 80 proof liquor now, it certainly would in 2004. $40 will also buy two cases of the average brand of beer (lets say Budweiser). Now, you might say, that's not a lot of alcohol for a seasoned alcoholic with a drinking problem, but let's keep in mind that this was a 21 year old girl who weighed just 120 pounds. Now I'm a 30 year old male who weighs 230 pounds, and I have a decade of drinking under my belt. Even I would get alcohol poisoning after consuming a quarter of the alcohol she purchased in one sitting. Even if you figure she intended to drink some of it on the road, and the rest a day or two later, she had enough alcohol to have her puking her guts out before she even finished a quarter of it. Why would she purchase that much alcohol if she didn't, A. Plan on having someone else drinking with her, or B. Plan on partying over several days and spread the drinking out. I suppose you could say her eyes were bigger than her stomach, and that is possible, but the fact that she purchased such a large quantity of alcohol despite being such a small person... I think that says something. If you're only 21, and you only weigh 120 pounds, no matter how high your tolerance is, you can't put away that much alcohol before you completely shut down and end up puking on the side of the road... Take from that what you will...


Also, really quickly I just want to say I drive a mid 90's Saturn sedan, and while it has some design flaws that can render it useless... it also has a very robust engine that has been touted for it's longevity. My Saturn has over 200,000 miles on it and still runs great, they're more well known for having random electrical faults, etc. So while it's said that her Saturn was falling apart and she wouldn't have trusted it... I'm not so sure. If her Saturn was anything like mine, it's actually is a very dependable and roadworthy vehicle. Ok, that's all I've got for now. I'm sure I'll have more later if you folks don't mind.

 

[nycpizzaparty]

I always found it odd that Maura's Saturn supposedly had all of these problems including smoke coming out the tailpipe. This is something you might see in an older hoop-dee but I have never heard of a not old Saturn having such mechanical issues or falling apart prematurely.

 

[dogperson]

I have never believed her car was really in bad shape. I think the money her dad brought was for something else. What, I do not know. But a young single girl taking a very unreliable car on that kind of trip alone seems unlikely to me. I feel the accounts of the car being in bad shape are greatly exaggerated to cover up something else that was going on, for why her dad was there, for why he withdrew the money.

 

[scoops]

I read about this story a long time ago on Wikipedia, but I didn't really get interested in it until I found WebSleuths recently. Over the past couple of weeks I've spent hours reading everyone's comments, and there is no one theory that calls out to me more than the other. I find this story very perplexing, much like the Brandon Lawson case. At first I felt suicide was the least likely scenario, then I read someone mention that Maura had Tylenol PM. If that's true, I think the suicide angle is slightly more plausible. If she took a handful of those she would not have been able to help falling asleep, even in frigid cold weather. If you take enough diphenhydramine, it'll knock you out no matter how much you try to fight it. I can't imagine anyone choosing suicide by hypothermia, without some sort of sedative. I'm still on the fence though, and I'd like to share some random thoughts that I have.

First of all, someone pointed out way back in this thread that many times when cases like these are finally solved, the outcome is the one least likely suspected. I think this is because people have a tendency to focus on one or two pieces of "evidence" that they feel overwhelm everything else, and they jump to conclusions. For example, I feel some posters have been a bit to aggressive in insisting that this was a suicide... almost as if to downplay investigating any other scenarios. I think all of us would like to get to the truth, no matter what it is, so focusing explicitly one theory doesn't really help much, unless you happen to be right...

I feel like a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about stuff that we can't possibly know... for example, her mental state, her motivations, etc. Also, I can think of all kinds of variables that haven't been mentioned yet. For example, when discussing the possibility that she was involved in the Petrit Vasi accident, no one has mentioned the possibility that someone else may have been driving her car when Vasi was struck. Of course, there is no evidence of this, but it is a possibility that should be considered. Someone did mention the possibility that someone else was driving her car when it hit the snowbank, none of the witnesses were absolutely convinced that she was the one in the car that night. That is an unlikely scenario as well, but still something that must be considered.

I did a little digging and found the weather conditions for Haverhill, NH. on the night she disappeared. There was an average temperature of 9°F, with lows just below zero. There was little to no wind that night, and unless the weather stations were malfunctioning, it was not snowing at that time. Even if she was drunk and depressed, I can't imagine the most desperate person choosing to freeze to death in 9 degree weather (unless of course she was passing out from the Tylenol PM).

The more I read, the more questions I have. If you believe the suicide theory, how do you think she was planning on committing suicide before the accident? Did she really think a rag in the tailpipe in combination with the Tylenol PM would do the trick? How much gas was in her tank when the car was found? What make of Saturn was it? Some Saturns don't have a mercury switch cutoff for the fuel pump. Why would search dogs not be able to track her beyond 100 yards if she left her scent there? Why would her scent be stronger where she stood at 50 yards, compared to where she was standing at 100? It's not like she loses scent as she keeps walking.

One of the things that troubles me, but I respect, is that we can't talk about family. I understand victim bashing is not allowed, but in reality isn't everyone a potential suspect until we find out what actually happened? I don't want to get in trouble, so I'll leave it there. Hopefully I can say that much.

If someone put a gun to my head and I had to pick... I'd be dead because I can't pick. If I had to eliminate one theory, I would probably still eliminate the suicide theory. I am totally willing to accept that's what happened, but to me it seems the least likely. It seems like if she was really suicidal, she could have found an easier and faster way to do it. Why research places to live in Vermont if you were planning on committing suicide a couple days later? Doesn't it seem like the White Mountains were supposed to be a pit-stop on the way to where she was going? If she loved the White Mountains and had been looking into a place in northern Vermont, the Mountains would have been on her way. My gut tells me that she was picked up very shortly after the accident, either by an accomplice or someone who meant her harm. I plan on doing a lot more research on this case, I look forward to reading the comments to come.

Oh, by the way. I was just reminded of something that happened with a co-worker of mine. He was an alcoholic with similar problems to what Maura was facing. One day, he just disappeared, his apartment had been packed up, and he and his car disappeared. We had no idea what happened until days later when we got a call from the state police saying that he had been stopped at the Florida/Georgia line with a car full of booze and a bottle of vodka in his hand. Later we learned that his plan was to drive to Michigan and start a new life... so this theory is definitely not far fetched...

A lot of good critical thinking here, but believe me, all of this stuff you point out has been researched quite heavily (not just by me)

In no particular order:

The temperature that night was actually 32 to 33 degrees and never dipped below. It's a common mistake when looking back to historical weather for data to type in the actual day (Feb 9) to try and use, but that would be incorrect because the coldest point of any day will be the mornings and Maura wasn't missing on the morning of Feb 9. By Feb 9 (evening and time Maura went missing) it had warmed up considerably.

Faith Westman's account of a man smoking a cigarette has long since been debunked.
Her husband was in the very next room looking out a window with a better vantage point of the wreck and he describes seeing a young woman with a cell phone light. The neighbors across the street also describe seeing a young woman with no one else by the car. What likely happened, is Faith was the one calling it in to 911 and she was likely being "helped"/ guided by the dispatcher in describing what she was seeing first-hand. Faith has sense come back to point out she was likely mistaken in what she saw.

Maura wasn't researching places to live, she was researching directions to the exact same three places she had went hiking to three and a half months prior to her going missing (stowe Vermont, Burlington area of Vermont and the White mountains).

Maura brought a book about dying in the white mountains, bookmarked to a chapter chronically the death of a fellow Massachusetts native Macdonald Barr.

Macdonald Barr was experiencing severe hypothermia and the partner that was hiking with him urged him to stop hiking and turn back as the weather was increasingly getting worse and worse and winds were reaching near 200 mph. But Barr elected to continue and eventually froze to death as his partner raced pack down the mountain.

Barr's friends and rescue personnel had to wait an entire day (because of a nasty storm) to go and try and find Barr up the mountain and loved ones were expecting to come across a gruesome scene when they would find him eventually, but instead they found him laying in the middle of a trail, arms folded across his chest with his eyes wide open and he was described as being very peaceful looking and composed in death.

I believe Maura was inspired by these kind of stories and the dangers and perils that were the White Mountains.

I don't think she wanted to drive her car into a snowbank to kill herself.

She took out enough money to spend at least one or two nights near the trail of her choice in some sort of lodging (hotel).

I believe her ultimate f the world and go out with a bang trip was to include a final suicide note and some heavy drinking in a warm hotel, while her final hike would've begun at daybreak.

I believe Maura packed alcohol, Tylenol PM and a blanket to take with her to the trails.

Her father had told his kids that if he ever felt worthless/hopeless, that he would go grab a bottle of Jack Daniels and head for the mountains.

Her father also made the point (when cameras weren't rolling) and he was searching for his daughter, that if they were going to find her it would be up there as he pointed to a mountain. He said they would find her drunk and naked (which is a common state someone who suffers severe hypothermia to be found in as some of their last actions will be to strip off their clothes as hypothermia leads to a person actually feeling like they are burning up.

I believe Maura was an adventure seeker, who had enough of her normal life, and wanted to spend her last moments on earth in the place she had planned to have her honeymoon at, the White Mountains.

 

[nycpizzaparty]

A lot of good critical thinking here, but believe me, all of this stuff you point out has been researched quite heavily (not just by me)

In no particular order:

The temperature that night was actually 32 to 33 degrees and never dipped below. It's a common mistake when looking back to historical weather for data to type in the actual day (Feb 9) to try and use, but that would be incorrect because the coldest point of any day will be the mornings and Maura wasn't missing on the morning of Feb 9. By Feb 9 (evening and time Maura went missing) it had warmed up considerably.

Faith Westman's account of a man smoking a cigarette has long since been debunked.
Her husband was in the very next room looking out a window with a better vantage point of the wreck and he describes seeing a young woman with a cell phone light. The neighbors across the street also describe seeing a young woman with no one else by the car. What likely happened, is Faith was the one calling it in to 911 and she was likely being "helped"/ guided by the dispatcher in describing what she was seeing first-hand. Faith has sense come back to point out she was likely mistaken in what she saw.

Maura wasn't researching places to live, she was researching directions to the exact same three places she had went hiking to three and a half months prior to her going missing (stowe Vermont, Burlington area of Vermont and the White mountains).

Maura brought a book about dying in the white mountains, bookmarked to a chapter chronically the death of a fellow Massachusetts native Macdonald Barr.

Macdonald Barr was experiencing severe hypothermia and the partner that was hiking with him urged him to stop hiking and turn back as the weather was increasingly getting worse and worse and winds were reaching near 200 mph. But Barr elected to continue and eventually froze to death as his partner raced pack down the mountain.

Barr's friends and rescue personnel had to wait an entire day (because of a nasty storm) to go and try and find Barr up the mountain and loved ones were expecting to come across a gruesome scene when they would find him eventually, but instead they found him laying in the middle of a trail, arms folded across his chest with his eyes wide open and he was described as being very peaceful looking and composed in death.

I believe Maura was inspired by these kind of stories and the dangers and perils that were the White Mountains.

I don't think she wanted to drive her car into a snowbank to kill herself.

She took out enough money to spend at least one or two nights near the trail of her choice in some sort of lodging (hotel).

I believe her ultimate f the world and go out with a bang trip was to include a final suicide note and some heavy drinking in a warm hotel, while her final hike would've begun at daybreak.

I believe Maura packed alcohol, Tylenol PM and a blanket to take with her to the trails.

Her father had told his kids that if he ever felt worthless/hopeless, that he would go grab a bottle of Jack Daniels and head for the mountains.

Her father also made the point (when cameras weren't rolling) and he was searching for his daughter, that if they were going to find her it would be up there as he pointed to a mountain. He said they would find her drunk and naked (which is a common state someone who suffers severe hypothermia to be found in as some of their last actions will be to strip off their clothes as hypothermia leads to a person actually feeling like they are burning up.

I believe Maura was an adventure seeker, who had enough of her normal life, and wanted to spend her last moments on earth in the place she had planned to have her honeymoon at, the White Mountains.

I am swayed by your post. Do you think this is a matter of her body not being found yet?

 

[coolaid213]

I don't doubt that you and others have more knowledge of the case as I've only recently stumbled upon it, but it doesn't seem like there is enough information here to lead one to be so certain about what happened one way or the other. Based on the information available, and what you've presented, I still don't see how you come to the conclusion that this was most likely a suicide.


First of all, regarding the temperature, I see where I made my error there. You're right, it appears the overnight low the morning after she went missing was in the 30's. I'm not sure if that difference in temperature means much, although 30 does seem comparatively warm.


Regarding the Westman account of a man smoking a cigarette in the passenger seat while there was a flurry of activity by the trunk. I don't see how anyone can backtrack and rationalize what they saw was a cell phone light inside the vehicle while there was a flurry of activity by the trunk. Does this mean there was no flurry of activity by the trunk? How does her husband seeing something different outweigh her original belief that there were two separate people in and around her car? It seems like you are assuming a lot of things that we can't prove/don't know as fact, such as claiming that she was coached into hallucinating what she saw by the 911 dispatcher, that doesn't make any sense to me. It seems like a stretch for you to assume who had a better vantage point, or assume that she was coached into believing she saw two separate figures, one inside the car, and one behind the car. Also, none of the witnesses seemed all that confident that she was even the one driving the car that night. The bus driver originally said he didn't think she was the girl he saw, he later changed his mind and said it must have been her. Considering that, can we really put that much stock in anything the witnesses said?


Regarding Maura's researching different locations, instead of using the words "places to live", I should have said, "places to stay". However, I'd like you to explain something to me. If the plan was to commit suicide in the White Mountains, why research places in Stowe Vermont and Burlington Vermont? Both of those locations are at least an hour and a half away by car. Why not find lodging closer to your intended suicide destination? That doesn't make much sense to me.


Regarding the book, I've read the synopsis, and I've read various summaries of the book. I think it's also a bit of a stretch to assume this book is related to her disappearance. If the book was truly the inspiration for her disappearance, why leave it in the car instead of taking it with her to read in her final moments?


I don't blame you for coming to the conclusion that this was a suicide, however I think the facts that we know for certain could point to a number of different scenarios. It seems to me that you're trying to massage the evidence to fit your suicide hypothesis. There is no hard evidence as to what actually happened one way or another. I don't think we'll really know unless someone finds a body, or in the unlikely event that she turns up alive somewhere. I'm not trying to be disrespectful or start an argument, but I feel the notion that this was a clear cut suicide must be challenged. If it was a suicide, no harm done. But if there actually was a crime here, and we write it off as a suicide, we'd be doing a grave injustice.

 

[Sutton]

I don't doubt that you and others have more knowledge of the case as I've only recently stumbled upon it, but it doesn't seem like there is enough information here to lead one to be so certain about what happened one way or the other. Based on the information available, and what you've presented, I still don't see how you come to the conclusion that this was most likely a suicide.


First of all, regarding the temperature, I see where I made my error there. You're right, it appears the overnight low the morning after she went missing was in the 30's. I'm not sure if that difference in temperature means much, although 30 does seem comparatively warm.


Regarding the Westman account of a man smoking a cigarette in the passenger seat while there was a flurry of activity by the trunk. I don't see how anyone can backtrack and rationalize what they saw was a cell phone light inside the vehicle while there was a flurry of activity by the trunk. Does this mean there was no flurry of activity by the trunk? How does her husband seeing something different outweigh her original belief that there were two separate people in and around her car? It seems like you are assuming a lot of things that we can't prove/don't know as fact, such as claiming that she was coached into hallucinating what she saw by the 911 dispatcher, that doesn't make any sense to me. It seems like a stretch for you to assume who had a better vantage point, or assume that she was coached into believing she saw two separate figures, one inside the car, and one behind the car. Also, none of the witnesses seemed all that confident that she was even the one driving the car that night. The bus driver originally said he didn't think she was the girl he saw, he later changed his mind and said it must have been her. Considering that, can we really put that much stock in anything the witnesses said?


Regarding Maura's researching different locations, instead of using the words "places to live", I should have said, "places to stay". However, I'd like you to explain something to me. If the plan was to commit suicide in the White Mountains, why research places in Stowe Vermont and Burlington Vermont? Both of those locations are at least an hour and a half away by car. Why not find lodging closer to your intended suicide destination? That doesn't make much sense to me.


Regarding the book, I've read the synopsis, and I've read various summaries of the book. I think it's also a bit of a stretch to assume this book is related to her disappearance. If the book was truly the inspiration for her disappearance, why leave it in the car instead of taking it with her to read in her final moments?


I don't blame you for coming to the conclusion that this was a suicide, however I think the facts that we know for certain could point to a number of different scenarios. It seems to me that you're trying to massage the evidence to fit your suicide hypothesis. There is no hard evidence as to what actually happened one way or another. I don't think we'll really know unless someone finds a body, or in the unlikely event that she turns up alive somewhere. I'm not trying to be disrespectful or start an argument, but I feel the notion that this was a clear cut suicide must be challenged. If it was a suicide, no harm done. But if there actually was a crime here, and we write it off as a suicide, we'd be doing a grave injustice.

I agree that all possibilities need to be explored. Until recently, I did not consider suicide the most likely scenario.

I don't think anyone is claiming to know for a fact what happened to Maura. Most posters are simply stating their own opinions, based on their own interpretation of the known facts. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

No one is trying to convince you (through evidence massage or any other method) that your beliefs about Maura's fate is not valid.

IMO, of course.

 

[Caffeine]

her cell phone never pinged off a tower in Londonderry NH.

The affidavit request in question by law enforcement was supposedly for a phone call made by someone else to maura's phone that involved the tower in Londonderry NH.

I have always believed that the affidavit request made by an officer was filled out wrong, because the above scenario doesn't make much sense.

To further complicate the matter, there is a Londonderry Vermont, which Maura would've driven within range of if she in fact did go the believed route (I-91N to the 302) that she is to have taken.

Thanks for clarifying.

The thing that I don't get is if a person calls Maura while in the area of Londonderry...that persons cell pings that tower. So if that person called, didn't get through.... wouldn't it register as a missed call and in turn be on Mauras cell phone bill?

Or is it an issue where Maura had no service and simply had no idea she missed the call. If That's the case I wonder how police became aware of it?

 

[amightyduck]

The bus driver originally said he didn't think she was the girl he saw, he later changed his mind and said it must have been her.

RSBM. Admittedly I have not read all of Maura's threads here, but I have casually followed her case for at least a few years now. This is one of those small pieces that I either missed or forgot about in the midst of all the other pieces.

I wonder what she looked like. In many of her photos she seems to go simple on hair and make-up but still looks put together. I wonder how she looked that she wasn't immediately recognizable? Was she tired, stressed, drunk and generally sloppy looking? Or was she wearing heavy make-up, hair done or styled and dressed up?