NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[Fireweed]

This is a very basic, well-known part of the case, and if you're just hearing this now, you really haven't done enough research. There was a post on a messagboard devoted to Maura's case years ago, in which a person wrote that Maura fled to Canada after striking Vasi with her car. The post took on certain credence after a user named "Observer" replied that this was known to certain members of the family. Observer was tracked to the region of a small town where Fred's cousins lived.

There were also posts on Canadian messageboards, supposedly by a schoolmate of Maura's, who claimed they saw her near Montreal.

Look, I'm not saying these reports are definitive, but they deserve to be followed, like any lead. please do research before dismissing them entirely.

Personally I do not dismiss them entirely, but I do find it interesting that there have been about the same number of sightings of Maura as there were of John Glasgow, a man who was missing for seven years before his body was found about mile from his car in an area that was "searched thoroughly".

And, in case you are wondering, I am totally open to the idea that Maura is still alive.

 

[Tarik]

Personally I do not dismiss them entirely, but I do find it interesting that there have been about the same number of sightings of Maura as there were of John Glasgow, a man who was missing for seven years before his body was found about mile from his car in an area that was "searched thoroughly".

And, in case you are wondering, I am totally open to the idea that Maura is still alive.

The John Glasgow example is a great reason why I don't think sightings should be taken very seriously. They are misleading and confusing more than anything else, at least that's what comes out of them once a missing person is found. Often times, the truth about what happened lies directly in the region or the area where someone went missing, yet some people go looking everywhere else except close at hand. If you or someone else can find me a case of a missing person found alive or deceased based solely or mainly on a sighting, I would love to take a look at it but I don't recall that happening often which is why sightings should always be taken with a huge grain of salt. I've worked on a lot of missing person cases and often times the sightings where a person was "convinced" to have seen the missing person turned out to be misleading or just plain ridiculous once the case was solved. For example, in the Skylar Neese case, people reported seeing her all over the country. There were alleged sightings in New York, Los Angeles, Florida, the Midwest and what not. Police and her parents wasted a lot of time going to some of those places to see for themselves. In the end, she was found less than 30 miles from her home.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Has anyone else noticed that the "she ran away to Canada with a heretofore unknown boyfriend" theory is a carbon copy of the initial explanation for what happened to Bennington undergrad Paula Welden after she went missing during a daytime hike of the Long Trail in 1946, despite the last confirmed sighting of her coming from a local man with a history of domestic violence who later drunkenly confessed to knowing where she was buried?

 

[Fireweed]

You know if I really think about it, after eleven years, Maura has actually had fewer sightings than a lot of missing persons.

If I had to bet, I would bet on her body being within ten miles of the crash site, and Maura having died within 24 hours she was last seen.

 

[bluesneakers]

You know if I really think about it, after eleven years, Maura has actually had fewer sightings than a lot of missing persons.

If I had to bet, I would bet on her body being within ten miles of the crash site, and Maura having died within 24 hours she was last seen.

Me too.


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[Tarik]

You know if I really think about it, after eleven years, Maura has actually had fewer sightings than a lot of missing persons.

If I had to bet, I would bet on her body being within ten miles of the crash site, and Maura having died within 24 hours she was last seen.

That would be logical but of course disappearances aren't always logical and sometimes there can be a lot of unexpected twists. With that being said, this outcome would be way more realistic than her running away to Canada and being seen in Montreal or Quebec City 5 or 6 years after her disappearance.

 

[TessDeco]

This is a very basic, well-known part of the case, and if you're just hearing this now, you really haven't done enough research. There was a post on a messagboard devoted to Maura's case years ago, in which a person wrote that Maura fled to Canada after striking Vasi with her car. The post took on certain credence after a user named "Observer" replied that this was known to certain members of the family. Observer was tracked to the region of a small town where Fred's cousins lived.

There were also posts on Canadian messageboards, supposedly by a schoolmate of Maura's, who claimed they saw her near Montreal.

Look, I'm not saying these reports are definitive, but they deserve to be followed, like any lead. please do research before dismissing them entirely.

Why so condescending?

BBM: Research? Do you mean I haven't read enough of your blog? I did a search. I saw posts about Maura in Canada on Topix and other blogs but I just didn't think anyone would take that as a viable lead. My bad. I guess that's what happens when a case goes cold.

Where in my post did I dismiss anything? I simply asked questions. I even tried reading your blog but I only have limited time and couldn't find the answer. I'm not that new to Maura's case. I've just been away for awhile and the Missing Podcast renewed my interest in Maura's case. Isn't that the point of doing the Podcast?

You could of just linked me to the appropriate post on your blog.

Whatever! Thanks for your response.

 

[Jmoose]

You know if I really think about it, after eleven years, Maura has actually had fewer sightings than a lot of missing persons.

If I had to bet, I would bet on her body being within ten miles of the crash site, and Maura having died within 24 hours she was last seen.

This is where I'm at, too

 

[JamesRenner]

Sorry for the tone. It's been a week. Websleuths doesn't like links so much, or I would link more.

My point is, every sighting should be treated as a lead until it's ruled out.

Speaking of sightings, did you hear about the Butson's sighting the day she went missing from around the corner from the accident. That one is very interesting!

 

[Tarik]

Sorry for the tone. It's been a week. Websleuths doesn't like links so much, or I would link more.

My point is, every sighting should be treated as a lead until it's ruled out.

Speaking of sightings, did you hear about the Butson's sighting the day she went missing from around the corner from the accident. That one is very interesting!

Even if the sighting happens over 200 miles from the last known position and several years after someone goes missing? If police were to treat every sighting as a lead, they would never be able to solve anything and would waste a significant amount of time.

 

[Fireweed]

Sorry for the tone. It's been a week. Websleuths doesn't like links so much, or I would link more.

My point is, every sighting should be treated as a lead until it's ruled out.

Speaking of sightings, did you hear about the Butson's sighting the day she went missing from around the corner from the accident. That one is very interesting!

I agree that every sighting should be treated as a lead, and I certainly do not dismiss the theory that Maura is alive.

I think James, that what a lot of people here are saying, is that sporadic "sightings" of missing persons are common, even in cases where the missing person has been dead for years. Thus, most people who follow missing person's cases are naturally skeptical of sightings. So far, all of the sightings of Maura follow the same pattern as other cases where the MP has been dead for a long time: someone is shown a photo and then after searching their memory, they claim they saw that person a week ago or a month ago or a year ago. They never saw that person that day, and they never, ever see that person ever again. Look, human beings are creatures of routine. We go to the same grocery store, the same gym, the same park, etc, yet whenever someone "sights" a missing person, it is only ever one time and one time only. I am completely convinced that those sightings are bogus.

Now I will concede that Maura may be living somewhere and be seen by people constantly, day in and day out, but that no one recognizes her as the missing person Maura Murray. Heck, that just happened in the case of James Hammes, who bummed around Appalachia and was seen by thousands of people, but only recognized by one.

 

[Caffeine]

I too would probably put money on her body being within ten miles or so of the crash site.

But I tend to go back and forth on A) died by someone else's actions or B) died from her own actions

The more time passes the more I lean to A, as private property is vast and we've barely scratched the surface of that, so to speak. People tend to be found...eventually. 12 years is approaching and we are basically at the now or never timeframe. However scenario B just simply cannot be ruled out without evidence.

That's the big issue here, we have nothing definitive to lead is in one direction.

 

[Reno]

Has anyone else noticed that the "she ran away to Canada with a heretofore unknown boyfriend" theory is a carbon copy of the initial explanation for what happened to Bennington undergrad Paula Welden after she went missing during a daytime hike of the Long Trail in 1946, despite the last confirmed sighting of her coming from a local man with a history of domestic violence who later drunkenly confessed to knowing where she was buried?

Yeah, it's psychologically appealing, so the scenario repeats regularly. You can find that sentiment in case after case on this site, where you see as many posts 'wishing' someone missing skipped out to start a new life as theories they actually did. It's just human nature, as none of us want a) or b) to have been MM's fate. We all want c) "the secret escape", even when instincts say it's unlikely, almost as much as all want peace for the family and friends that lost her.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Yeah, it's psychologically appealing, so the scenario repeats regularly. You can find that sentiment in case after case on this site, where you see as many posts 'wishing' someone missing skipped out to start a new life as theories they actually did. It's just human nature, as none of us want a) or b) to have been MM's fate. We all want c) "the secret escape", even when instincts say it's unlikely, almost as much as all want peace for the family and friends that lost her.

Having read up on a lot of VERY cold murders/missing persons cases, I've seen the "ran away with a secret boyfriend" and "amnesia/fugue" explanations trotted out a lot back in the early part of the 20th century, almost entirely with regard to female victims. Sure, this could be seen as an attempt to square a generally sunny worldview of people being basically good, but it could also be taken as a bit more insidious than that. By denying outright the reality that being a woman in this world means risking terrible things happening to you every time you leave your house (and in too many cases, even staying home doesn't prevent that ) and necessarily cultivating an awareness of constant danger is to absolve our representative authorities (who, to this day, are overwhelmingly male) and, by extension, ourselves of culpability in creating a culture that permits such atrocities to happen at all, let alone recur with sickening repetition.

However, I'll be the first to concede that maybe this tendency to err on the side of caution and assume endangerment before proven otherwise when it comes to cases of missing females might be symptomatic of my own worldview, which is far less charitable.

Sorry if this is all a bit off-topic.

 

[Thefacelessman]

You know if I really think about it, after eleven years, Maura has actually had fewer sightings than a lot of missing persons.

If I had to bet, I would bet on her body being within ten miles of the crash site, and Maura having died within 24 hours she was last seen.

Agree...would be shocked if she was ever found and it was more than 5 miles from car (unless moved by flowing water).
Im sure all sightings are checked.....without publicizing anything,as they probably are unfounded unless there were several in the same area.

 

[xjd]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/salem-witch-gets-protective-order-against-warlock/

not sure this link will work, but isn't this the psychic that the podcast guys interviewed?

 

[xjd]

more thoughts on the latest podcast:

Alden Olsen; they are obviously trying to flush him out to contact them. the question is why? is it to sensationalize the podcast by talking to a very strange person or do they really think they had anything to do with it?

John Smith; so he posted some random page of phone records on Twitter and passed it off as related to Maura's case? when called out on it, he took it down and on the podcast he's kinda like "aw shucks i didn't mean no harm". this is as damaging to his credibility as some of Renner's exploits.

Karen Mayotte (sp?); IMO Smith comes very close to saying he has a theory or wonders if there is more to Maura's dorm job supervisors story of what transpired that is commonly thought. he actually says Karen had a kind of "power" over Maura because of being her supervisor. this is interesting as he points out that Karen claims to have offered to call Maura the next day but didn't, surprising after such a dramatic end to Maura's shift.

 

[Fireweed]

more thoughts on the latest podcast:

Alden Olsen; they are obviously trying to flush him out to contact them. the question is why? is it to sensationalize the podcast by talking to a very strange person or do they really think they had anything to do with it?

John Smith; so he posted some random page of phone records on Twitter and passed it off as related to Maura's case? when called out on it, he took it down and on the podcast he's kinda like "aw shucks i didn't mean no harm". this is as damaging to his credibility as some of Renner's exploits.

Karen Mayotte (sp?); IMO Smith comes very close to saying he has a theory or wonders if there is more to Maura's dorm job supervisors story of what transpired that is commonly thought. he actually says Karen had a kind of "power" over Maura because of being her supervisor. this is interesting as he points out that Karen claims to have offered to call Maura the next day but didn't, surprising after such a dramatic end to Maura's shift.

The fake phone records posted online made me shake my head too. So wait, this man just happens to have a lot of people's phone records sitting around and so it's a "my bad" moment when he posts the wrong ones and claims they are Billy's? Uh-huh.

 

[stephsb]

So the phone records weren't Billy's? How can you make a mistake like that?

I have trouble listening to the podcast because it just appears to me that it's all speculation and very few facts, but I have a long car ride to visit my sister in law coming up so I'll probably catch up on it in spite of my better judgment. If they are honestly trying to talk to people like Alden Olsen their credibility w. me isn't very high. While I'm glad this case is getting attention (I want it solved just as much as anyone) and I get they want to try to talk to everyone and get the "whole picture" I think there comes a point when talking to certain people doesn't help push the case forward but just muddies the waters more than they already have been.

I'm sure I'm echoing the sentiments of many when I say I think there has just been so much sloppy journalism in this case, and that's really unfortunate. It doesn't surprise me at all that FM has acted the way he has...I feel like he's watched MM's name be dragged through the mud for years, and what has come from it? Are we really any closer to finding out what happened to her?

I think MM's body is probably out there in the vicinity of where she was seen, and while I hope her body is found more than anything, I don't think even that will bring all the answers. It will certainly explain how she died, but it won't explain how she got there. I think key to finding out what happened to MM is explaining why she was in the White Mountains in the first place, and I think FM and BR are two people who have a pretty good idea of why she was there...and I don't expect them to come forward w. that anytime soon.


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[Lolacat]

it could also be taken as a bit more insidious than that. By denying outright the reality that being a woman in this world means risking terrible things happening to you every time you leave your house (and in too many cases, even staying home doesn't prevent that ) and necessarily cultivating an awareness of constant danger is to absolve our representative authorities (who, to this day, are overwhelmingly male) and, by extension, ourselves of culpability in creating a culture that permits such atrocities to happen at all, let alone recur with sickening repetition.

Bloody well said! ITA.