NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[Caffeine]

Like snow shoes or xc skis. No one but no one can run through 2 feet of snow after about 100 yards IMO.

She didn't as far as we know.

...or even a good pair of boots.

I know firsthand how tough winters in NH are. Once your feet get wet, unless you have extra clothes, you're done.

I've been out in the snow for extended periods with only running shoes and cotton socks, I couldn't imagine an entire night. Heck, I fell into the Atlantic Ocean retrieving my friends boat in January one year. The cold there is no joke.

At any given time, I'd be lucky to have a flashlight in my car, let alone any decent gear for an emergency.

 

[cluciano63]

I am kind of leaning toward suicide, with being alive someplace a close second. I do not believe she was abducted, as that just seems too unlikely with the timing, as well as the numerous possible motives she had for fleeing her current life. Abduction on top of all that just seems wildly unlikely to me. If her BF was unaccounted for during that time period, maybe I would consider that she has become a crime victim.

 

[DetroitLives]

With the new info about the cabin, and it being used by HB, my new theory is that she was killed there or nearby after driving tandem and being picked up after the accident. IMO her remains are somewhere near that cabin.

 

[Caffeine]

With the new info about the cabin, and it being used by HB, my new theory is that she was killed there or nearby after driving tandem and being picked up after the accident. IMO her remains are somewhere near that cabin.

Above all, I feel pretty strongly about Maura being deceased. I do think she traveled away from the accident by car but under what circumstances, I don't know.

Could have been stranger, could have been acquaintance. Either way, the timing was impeccable because Atwood, other neighbors and police didn't see it happen. It's a tight time frame, but I think Maura felt like her only way to avoid police would be to leave the scene. Had a ride been available to her, it would be an obvious choice.

I never really felt like running deep into the woods at dark was a logical decision for the average young female. It's certainly possible but I think she would have first sought out a ride before doing something as drastic as going into the woods.

If by chance she made it on track to her intended destination a place like the Umass cabin would be worth a look. However, she could have had other acquaintances who offered her free lodging. Lots of kids in college in that area have parents with winter cabins. Or alternatively, someone else could have booked a reservation somewhere as well.

With virtually no evidence of her movement after the accident, it certainly leads to a lot of different scenarios that could have caused her to be missing for the past 12 years.

 

[Reno]

With the new info about the cabin, and it being used by HB, my new theory is that she was killed there or nearby after driving tandem and being picked up after the accident. IMO her remains are somewhere near that cabin.

That's quite a leap! It would rely on at least 6 independent causal assumptions, each in its own right debatable. When combined to put the whole theory together, it would create one of the most remarkable murder cases in history. And sort of renders the whole accident / disappearance fact pattern - the reason we've all heard of MM - irrelevant. Surreal! I guess it's possible, but I fear it relies on disregarding known facts in favor of unsupported circumstantials + theories to get to the logic chain. The known facts may not be dispositive, but lead to theories that are equally possible and simpler to chain together.

 

[Caffeine]

There's no question Maura was headed to a cabin, or lodging of some sort. I mean, if you look at the contents of her car, she had several bottles of shampoo and assorted toiletries. She had to be planning to stay somewhere.

The question remains, though...did she in fact make it to the destination OR did the accident change everything and a whole new chain of events occurred as a result?

It certainly seems unusual to pack a bunch of stuff without a real destination in mind, so I'd like to think there was one. However, her secretive nature was a major problem here. If she did in fact make it to a cabin or hotel, we have no idea which one it could be. The Umass one seems like a reasonable thought, but had someone else booked and paid for a reservation, it could have been anywhere in Northern New England.

...and that's if the crash didn't inhibit her travel.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yes, it makes sense that she had to have a destination in mind--at the minimum a town or an area with motels. I wonder if she was in contact in some way other than her cell phone with another person who got a reservation or who suggested the Mass cabin.

 

[Steleheart]

As it should be, since the Renner blog implicating U-Mass, the website for the cabin is down.
But I had looked at their site and the directions, and Yes, the exit Maura took was correct for the cabin, however,,,,,

The U-Mas web site directions take you UP 302 to Bethlehem.

Maura went east on 112 Off of 302 toward Lincoln heading for the kancamagus and crashed in Haverhill.

It is a far stretch that she would have taken that long and winding road up the mountain, into Lincoln and on to Conway, then Bartlett, and up to Bethlehem when she could have stayed on 302 directly to Bethlehem.

The cabin, IMO, is another book-selling red herring created out of whole cloth and naming an innocent man as a co-conspirator. How many people can Renner name as players with zero evidence? How many lives, organizations, etc. can he name without being held accountable?




https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...bc3e728494e263!8m2!3d44.2803843!4d-71.6875364

 

[Steleheart]

That's quite a leap! It would rely on at least 6 independent causal assumptions, each in its own right debatable. When combined to put the whole theory together, it would create one of the most remarkable murder cases in history. And sort of renders the whole accident / disappearance fact pattern - the reason we've all heard of MM - irrelevant. Surreal! I guess it's possible, but I fear it relies on disregarding known facts in favor of unsupported circumstantials + theories to get to the logic chain. The known facts may not be dispositive, but lead to theories that are equally possible and simpler to chain together.

Indeed.


Perhaps we need a forum on Occam's razor?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

 

[theforgotten]

I'm in the middle of listening to the Missing Maura Murray Podcast and honestly I don't know what to think! This case really baffles me. I just don't know what to think!

 

[Caffeine]

I'm in the middle of listening to the Missing Maura Murray Podcast and honestly I don't know what to think! This case really baffles me. I just don't know what to think!

The podcast can be good sometimes, it's a pretty loose format but lately there's been some decent episodes.

I'd really like it if they could get someone like John Healy or Lt. Scarinza on the show and open up a little bit. I'd be curious to hear the personal thoughts of people close to the investigation.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Runner's contribution to this case--and it is a major one, in my opinion--has been to establish that Maura's situation prior to getting involved in accident #2 in NH was not as represented in the press prior to his work and to show that her friends have not told all that they know. The question of where she was going is not pertinent if she were picked up by a random killer after the accident. It becomes more pertinent if she had plans with someone else for the weekend and that person or persons never came forward. I understand that some people are offended by his "spaghetti on the wall" approach, but that's not a whole lot different from what we do here.

 

[nyc000]

New Yorker review of the Renner book: http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/true-crime-addict-and-the-problem-of-internet-sleuths

I find the last paragraph poignant in many ways:

"For all that Renner has written on Maura Murray’s case, both in his book and online, I’ve never seen him seriously investigate the most plausible theory: that, fearing a D.U.I. arrest, Murray walked away from her car in the New Hampshire cold, got lost, and died. The woods are thick up there. A body could disappear."

 

[BritishRacingGreen]

I think when it all boils down, the red flag in this case is the father taking out all that money for her right before she left and her email to her teacher that she was going to be gone.

This sounds like someone on the run, for whatever reason.

I think either someone met her and she's living somewhere OR what the poster below me said about her wandering off from yet another drunken mistake.

 

[bluesneakers]

I assume everything I say about Maura's disappearance has been said before but I think there's a good chance he gave her the money to buy a car. 4K might not buy the greatest car but it could get a reliable car good enough for short trips around campus. When she got the money (or found out she would get it) she made an impulsive decision to get out of town.

So I agree it's a huge clue in her disappearance.

Just not sure exactly how to read it.

 

[Caffeine]

As far as the money goes...the only funds that are truly accounted for is the $200 something dollars she took out of her account via the ATM.

The $4k was withdrawn by Fred Murray prior to her disappearance, in order to buy a used car.

What happened to that money thereafter is anyone's guess. Personally I believe Fred was in debt at the time so whatever cash was withdrawn likely went back into his account.

There's really nothing fishy about buying used cars with cash. It's the fastest way to buy a car, quite simply.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Hasn't it been confirmed that the $4K went back into an account that Fred and Maura shared and remained untouched?

 

[dogperson]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before. I've followed this story since the beginning but the thread is so long I may have forgotten some things.

Could Maura have made up the story about her unreliable car so Fred would bring her the money? I kept wondering why she would take off in the dark, in the snow, while driving a car that might leave her stranded. But what if the car was actually ok and she had simply convinced her dad she needed anther one so he would give her the money and she could take off with it?

I don't recall if the four thousand was accounted for or not, I was thinking it hadn't been, but whether Fred gave her the money or whether he was still holding it, she may have decided to stick with her plan to leave at that particular time anyway. She may have had the money on her or, if it has been accounted for, perhaps Fred wouldn't hand it over, preferring instead to handle the used car purchase himself. Realizing she wasn't going to get her hands on it, maybe she decided to go without it.

I am still about 80% convinced she met with misadventure in the cold and snow, hiding from police and maybe becoming lost or maybe just succumbing to hypothermia. I do think she had a destination in mind but she was not expecting to have the accident. If she perished in the woods then her intended destination doesn't matter. And if she had the four thousand on her then it's in the woods with her.

 

[SearchingMike]

It was put back into a bank account according to Fred. That's per his word, no other confirmation.

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[SearchingMike]

New Yorker review of the Renner book: http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/true-crime-addict-and-the-problem-of-internet-sleuths

I find the last paragraph poignant in many ways:

"For all that Renner has written on Maura Murray’s case, both in his book and online, I’ve never seen him seriously investigate the most plausible theory: that, fearing a D.U.I. arrest, Murray walked away from her car in the New Hampshire cold, got lost, and died. The woods are thick up there. A body could disappear."

Except that Renner did investigate it. As did police. There were NO tracks in the snow leading into the mountains or woods. There was also helicopter searches done and no sign of her. It's unlikely at best as much was done to check immediately following the disappearance.

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