NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[Brainy]

No disrespect, but the odds of her staging an exit this sophisticated and in such a short time frame borders comic book villain plan execution. Can't fault the police for not pursuing this angle any further honestly as it's absolutely outlandish and would be without precedent. Same goes for her hopping into some car within that tiny time frame and supposedly getting murdered. What are the odds, really?

I think the fact the dogs lost her scent in the middle of the street should not be overrated and might well be meaningless as false positives are common and in the face of how unlikely every theory that doesn't involve "ran distressed into the woods, got disoriented and died" is.

Given that most mysteries that got resolved in the past usually end up with rather "unspectacular" resolutions, I'd suggest we keep things realistic here as well. She clearly had a very troubling time at that point in her life (which wasn't presented overly well by the Disappeared episode to be frank) and was likely not a mastermind who staged a disappearance this inconceivable.

I agree with you completely! She was in way too much distress, unsure what to do... and perhaps she made a really bad decision in the heat of the moment that took away her life.

 

[DakotaMayi]

She was clearly in a lot of distress and its probable that her life was taken however, I always wonder if, was she in so much distress that she couldn't live the life she was living anymore, was the timing just so perfect and she got away from whatever she was running from.

Is there anyone who believes the sightings in Quebec that Renner looked into for the book might be plausible?

 

[bluesneakers]

She was clearly in a lot of distress and its probable that her life was taken however, I always wonder if, was she in so much distress that she couldn't live the life she was living anymore, was the timing just so perfect and she got away from whatever she was running from.

Is there anyone who believes the sightings in Quebec that Renner looked into for the book might be plausible?

She might have tried to get away from her life but I think if she were alive she would have shown up somewhere or contacted her family. I know the Lori Ruff case was a mystery for a long time but when she made her getaway it was easier to get a new identity. Plus as distressed as she was at the time I don't think she could have pulled it off.

I don't believe the sightings in Quebec were Maura.

 

[DakotaMayi]

She might have tried to get away from her life but I think if she were alive she would have shown up somewhere or contacted her family. I know the Lori Ruff case was a mystery for a long time but when she made her getaway it was easier to get a new identity. Plus as distressed as she was at the time I don't think she could have pulled it off.

I don't believe the sightings in Quebec were Maura.

Always interesting to see what others think.

I think she went through a bad time and struggled to cope with it all and thats really sad. I really do hope that she has gone off and lived a good life, one can always hope.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

She might have tried to get away from her life but I think if she were alive she would have shown up somewhere or contacted her family. I know the Lori Ruff case was a mystery for a long time but when she made her getaway it was easier to get a new identity. Plus as distressed as she was at the time I don't think she could have pulled it off.

I don't believe the sightings in Quebec were Maura.

Also, Lori Ruff told her family, straight up, "I'm leaving, don't come looking for me."

 

[Caffeine]

It's quite difficult to gauge the frequency of people running away and starting a new life as well.

There's no real statistic or metric we can turn to and see because when people are gone, and there's no body to be found, we never really know the truth.

Some people manage to do it and are eventually exposed, sometimes even after death, even so it's not exactly what I'd say is a common occurrence.

I mean, if a person has been gone without a trace could we assume it's a 50/50 shot between a new life or discreetly murdered? Sure there's other factors to consider but typically if we're betting between life and death, time and time again eventually finding them deceased would be by far the more common occurrence, in my mind.

 

[DakotaMayi]

It's quite difficult to gauge the frequency of people running away and starting a new life as well.

There's no real statistic or metric we can turn to and see because when people are gone, and there's no body to be found, we never really know the truth.

Some people manage to do it and are eventually exposed, sometimes even after death, even so it's not exactly what I'd say is a common occurrence.

I mean, if a person has been gone without a trace could we assume it's a 50/50 shot between a new life or discreetly murdered? Sure there's other factors to consider but typically if we're betting between life and death, time and time again eventually finding them deceased would be by far the more common occurrence, in my mind.

Yes your quite right which is a sad statistic. Whichever scenario, the timing had to be just perfect - for her to leave or for someone to take her.

 

[Brainy]

She was clearly in a lot of distress and its probable that her life was taken however, I always wonder if, was she in so much distress that she couldn't live the life she was living anymore, was the timing just so perfect and she got away from whatever she was running from.

Is there anyone who believes the sightings in Quebec that Renner looked into for the book might be plausible?

I don't think so... Maura is not bigfoot for us to believe in "sightings". I think if it was plausible and perhaps realistic there would have been a follow up. I don't think there has been a follow up.

 

[Brainy]

i don't believe that it was Maura...

I do agree that possible identity change may be considered in this case... moved away, relocated into a small community in the middle of nowhere, changed her name and living her life without anybody suspecting that she is someone else than she is claiming to be.. personally, I don't think it's the case. I think Maura had issues that seemed insurmountable at the time, I think she just wanted to get away, had no idea where she was going or what was she doing... and ended up making a bad decision while she was in a an accident where she was very likely intoxicated. Her judgment was way too impaired, and I don't think she would be able to make good, precise and smooth decisions.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I don't think so... Maura is not bigfoot for us to believe in "sightings". I think if it was plausible and perhaps realistic there would have been a follow up. I don't think there has been a follow up.

No she isn't. However she is a missing person and "sightings" have to be taken into consideration. Not sure why possible sightings should be considered in some cases and not Maura's.

 

[Brainy]

No she isn't. However she is a missing person and "sightings" have to be taken into consideration. Not sure why possible sightings should be considered in some cases and not Maura's.

I mean... sightings aren't evidence of any sort. There are just vague possibilities.... you're talking about random people spotting a woman they don't personally know and then claiming that they saw the woman in the picture. People change a lot and trust me, there are lots of girls who could have resembled Maura and lead someone to believe that it's her.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Lots of good points being made here. I don't believe I have ever commented on any of the threads, but I have read mostly all of the info posted as well as read J.R. blog posts (and the comments) from time-to-time.

One point I can't get past is that BOTH airbags were deployed (I cannot link it right now, but I am sure I have read it in several places.) Wouldn't that make it rather possible that there was a passenger in the car with Maura? I feel that if there was a passenger, with that person's help, that her disappearance was definitely pre-planned and a change of ID is definitely possible. She was a smart girl with many troubles. She could have made a fateful decision to run away and felt that there was no turning back once her case was made public. I feel for her family. Not having answers this many years later must be heartbreaking.

JMO

 

[DakotaMayi]

Lots of good points being made here. I don't believe I have ever commented on any of the threads, but I have read mostly all of the info posted as well as read J.R. blog posts (and the comments) from time-to-time.

One point I can't get past is that BOTH airbags were deployed (I cannot link it right now, but I am sure I have read it in several places.) Wouldn't that make it rather possible that there was a passenger in the car with Maura? I feel that if there was a passenger, with that person's help, that her disappearance was definitely pre-planned and a change of ID is definitely possible. She was a smart girl with many troubles. Should could have made a fateful decision to run away and felt that there was no turning back once her case was made public. I feel for her family. Not having answers this many years later must be heartbreaking.

JMO

I have also read this about two airbags and it is one of the reasons I believe she may be out there, with a new identity, living her life. As I said before if the timing was perfect this is definitely an option. There are many cases where it turns out the person has just started a new life and I believe this might be the case for Maura.
There wasn't a lot of time between the accident and the police turning up for her to have got to a point where she died and for her body to not be found.
There would have had to have been the wrong type of person at that exact place at that exact moment for someone to have took her/killed her.
But if there was a second person a getaway seems more likely. IMO.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I am wondering if, instead of a 'tandem' driver, the second driver was in the car with her during the accident. Perhaps they had driven 'his' car and hidden it somewhere nearby earlier that day....then they came back to 'stage' the accident and her disappearance.
They walk to 'his' car, then drive off together.
I know that a second person was not seen with her, but that doesn't sway me from thinking that there could have been one. After all, she managed to get away to some unknown place, unseen within several minutes the accident taking place.
This gal is somewhere, and I think I prefer to believe that she is alive and living under a new ID, then laying somewhere out there alone in an unmarked grave.

 

[Brainy]

I am wondering if, instead of a 'tandem' driver, the second driver was in the car with her during the accident. Perhaps they had driven 'his' car and hidden it somewhere nearby earlier that day....then they came back to 'stage' the accident and her disappearance.
They walk to 'his' car, then drive off together.
I know that a second person was not seen with her, but that doesn't sway me from thinking that there could have been one. After all, she managed to get away to some unknown place, unseen within several minutes the accident taking place.
This gal is somewhere, and I think I prefer to believe that she is alive and living under a new ID, then laying somewhere out there alone in an unmarked grave.

I know where you're going with the passenger airbag going off. There are so many big car accidents were the airbag should have gone off but didn't due to some malfunction problems. What if the passenger airbag was activated by accident? Typically, airbags are activated by weight in the car seat. There are tons of accidents with airbag malfunction, like, where passenger airbag went off with nobody in the seat and the driver who was the one supposed to get the protection of the airbag cushioning didn't have his airbag deploy.

There isn't and hasn't been anything significant to indicate the there was a second car somewhere and Maura ended up leaving with someone using the mystery hidden car.
The visibility was poor, the road was snowy... if the car was parked off the road somehow, there must have been tire tracks because the road was snowy. I don't want to rule this out, however, in my mind, I don't see anything to connect to this theory. There seems to be some disconnection between the possibility that this could have happened and the idea that it really did happen. Although, this theory does explain how Maura ended up just disappearing in that short window of time, why she refused help, and so on. I don't know. I would love to believe that she is safe somewhere continuing to live her life like she wants to, however I also want to be careful considering this. I don't want to just dismiss this case thinking, "oh, she just went away somewhere" without any substantial evidence, and considering, that mentally she wasn't in a place and didn't have the resources to just simply start a new life like she wanted.

 

[shadowdancer]

We need to think mundane. Its always the most mundane explanation.

Here is the most mundane theory that I can think of - We know that Maura was very stressed. She must have felt like everything was going wrong and she was always messing up. She felt like she needed to get away, so she decided to hide out in a place that she had been happy and relaxed in on previous occasions. Maybe she had been drinking more frequently to help her block out negative emotions, so naturally she bought some alcohol to take with her. She couldn't wait until she got there and started to drink the alcohol on the way there (or maybe she had already had been drinking before she set off). She didn't really have much of a plan in mind as to how long she would be away or what she wanted to do next. She probably hoped that the break would help her to think straight and work through her problems in her mind.

Because she was emotional and probably a bit drunk, she had an accident in the car. Yet another thing going wrong. She was worried that the police would be called and she would be in more trouble for driving whilst over the alcohol limit. She made a split second decision in a moment of panic and not thinking clearly, to flee the scene of the accident on foot. She ran into the woods. She got lost and/or injured and died from exposure.

 

[Brainy]

We need to think mundane. Its always the most mundane explanation.

Here is the most mundane theory that I can think of - We know that Maura was very stressed. She must have felt like everything was going wrong and she was always messing up. She felt like she needed to get away, so she decided to hide out in a place that she had been happy and relaxed in on previous occasions. Maybe she had been drinking more frequently to help her block out negative emotions, so naturally she bought some alcohol to take with her. She couldn't wait until she got there and started to drink the alcohol on the way there (or maybe she had already had been drinking before she set off). She didn't really have much of a plan in mind as to how long she would be away or what she wanted to do next. She probably hoped that the break would help her to think straight and work through her problems in her mind.

Because she was emotional and probably a bit drunk, she had an accident in the car. Yet another thing going wrong. She was worried that the police would be called and she would be in more trouble for driving whilst over the alcohol limit. She made a split second decision in a moment of panic and not thinking clearly, to flee the scene of the accident on foot. She ran into the woods. She got lost and/or injured and died from exposure.

Good thinking process. But how come her body was never recovered? she could have not gone very far in that freezing cold weather. There were also no footprints in the snow to indicate that somebody had gone into the woods. There was just absolutely no evidence, no trace of her. I think this is one of the major reasons that we're still thinking of so many possibilities.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I was closely following another case that was recently solved (Lori Ruff) who left home at 18 (with very few resources that we are aware of) ,changed her identity at least twice and wasn't identified until 30 years later (six years after committing suicide.)
I know that case is the exception, rather than the rule, but it really has me thinking about Maura and what a smart girl like her could accomplish when motivated to do so.
On the other hand, there have been a few cases recently solved (Joe Keller, Geraldine Largay) where the individuals were found very close to where they went missing.....but were not found right away despite numerous searches of the area in which they went missing.

We have very little evidence to point either way (planned disappearance or accident/succumbed to the elements) ....but at least we both are here batting around ideas and thinking of Maura.

I am now wondering if there are any 'google earth' images of the area near the accident (from that day) floating around?

 

[shadowdancer]

Good thinking process. But how come her body was never recovered? she could have not gone very far in that freezing cold weather. There were also no footprints in the snow to indicate that somebody had gone into the woods. There was just absolutely no evidence, no trace of her. I think this is one of the major reasons that we're still thinking of so many possibilities.

Its easy to explain why the body wasn't recovered, she could be in a very remote area of the woods and although its a horrible thought, the wildlife in the area (bears?) may have destroyed and scattered her remains. There might not be much left to find.

As for the footprints, if the ground was frozen there may not have been footprints, or they may have been extremely shallow and very quickly covered by further snowfall.

I think Maura could have covered a good distance in a short time, she was a good runner and she would have had a lot of adrenaline going though her body at the time.

Every case that gets solved, always ends up with the most mundane theory being the correct one. I just don't see Maura's case being any different.

 

[Coffeelover]

I completely agree with you Shadowdancer. My thought is that she ran in the center of the road and then turned down one of the side roads. At least that's what I would do if trying to evade the police. I used Google maps to 'travel' along the roads near the accident, and along some of the side roads, and noticed that there is thick forest everywhere. The immediate search area was small from what I recall and the side roads were not searched. At least that's my impression from following this case.