NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15

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ivegotthemic said:
nice! Im glad to have another sleuther that can interpret my occasional ramblings. This case is one thats always haunted me. Its crazy how 6-7 minutes of unaccounted for time can turn into someone disappearing into thin air
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There are a few cases that really get me. I get so into it them and then end up down the rabbit holes.
My theory has always been that she ran when she realized the police were coming. My reason is based upon the fact that I used to run cross country myself and I also got into a good bit of trouble as a teenager and I always ran (when the cops came) lots of parties in the local wooded areas ...I ran so fast one time in the dark that I ran right into a cement block. Busted my knee cap pretty bad and still kept running. Then I would hide. Many times I found myself completely alone after everyone dispersed so I can definitely see how you could end up lost. And she was already alone.
The theory that someone came along and took her or offered her a ride Is definitely a possibility, however, what are those odds? I do know it could very well happen, I just feel like it’s less likely.
I wish they would have brought out the search dogs immediately!! I mean obviously when someone crashes and the airbags go off they could be injured. They knew she was a young woman and they knew it was cold. I feel for her family. So much was botched from the start. I live nearby and have gone there a few times. There is so much forest, it’s like a needle in a haystack...
 
ivegotthemic said:
nice! Im glad to have another sleuther that can interpret my occasional ramblings. This case is one thats always haunted me. Its crazy how 6-7 minutes of unaccounted for time can turn into someone disappearing into thin air
Click to expand...

When it is dark outside, you are surrounded by woods, and you have a desire to run than things can happen. Given that Maura was likely intoxicated in this situation would only add to that effect.
 
So I have a theory about this case and I apologize for not reading all the threads involved in the case as I just began using this site.

Has anyone ruled out a new onset psychotic illness in this young woman? I have some experience in mental health field and in college-aged people, one of the reasons for suicide attempt or running away is first-break psychosis which can cause accidents, alcohol binges, suicide attempts, and other careless behaviors. Basically, they hear voices and get frightened/distracted and that's what leads to the above incidents. They think they're going crazy and we sometimes see these patients in the ER with self-inflicted stab wounds or gunshot wounds or seriously injured in a one-car accident.

Not saying this was Maura, but has anyone ruled this out? Because for a young woman to have two car accidents in a couple of days, leave school mysteriously, then disappear with all that alcohol suggests to me that maybe there was a mental health break going on and she is in the right age for this.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
So I have a theory about this case and I apologize for not reading all the threads involved in the case as I just began using this site.

Has anyone ruled out a new onset psychotic illness in this young woman? I have some experience in mental health field and in college-aged people, one of the reasons for suicide attempt or running away is first-break psychosis which can cause accidents, alcohol binges, suicide attempts, and other careless behaviors. Basically, they hear voices and get frightened/distracted and that's what leads to the above incidents. They think they're going crazy and we sometimes see these patients in the ER with self-inflicted stab wounds or gunshot wounds or seriously injured in a one-car accident.

Not saying this was Maura, but has anyone ruled this out? Because for a young woman to have two car accidents in a couple of days, leave school mysteriously, then disappear with all that alcohol suggests to me that maybe there was a mental health break going on and she is in the right age for this.
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Hard to say anything about mental illnesses but she likely was depressed at that point in time. She likely had a rocky relationship with her boyfriend and the Murray family in general (or at least the kids at that stage in their lives) seemed to struggle with alcoholism. She was going through a real rough time in her life and was probably just trying to get away from it all for awhile and if she had another accident while drinking and driving that would be all the reason to get away from the car. She could just sober up and plan out a story to tell people.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
So I have a theory about this case and I apologize for not reading all the threads involved in the case as I just began using this site.

Has anyone ruled out a new onset psychotic illness in this young woman? I have some experience in mental health field and in college-aged people, one of the reasons for suicide attempt or running away is first-break psychosis which can cause accidents, alcohol binges, suicide attempts, and other careless behaviors. Basically, they hear voices and get frightened/distracted and that's what leads to the above incidents. They think they're going crazy and we sometimes see these patients in the ER with self-inflicted stab wounds or gunshot wounds or seriously injured in a one-car accident.

Not saying this was Maura, but has anyone ruled this out? Because for a young woman to have two car accidents in a couple of days, leave school mysteriously, then disappear with all that alcohol suggests to me that maybe there was a mental health break going on and she is in the right age for this.
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This definitely makes sense
 
The main issue I have with the mental illness theory is that most people who are suffering from it to the point that they are hearing voices generally aren't leading a normal school or work life. Maura by all accounts was just a normal college student who was going through a lot of the immaturity issues a lot of college students go through.

Many of them aren't wrecklessly driving or drinking too much or doing some petty theft because they are having psychosis issues but because they are extremely self absorbed and have little concept of thinking about much else other than themselves.

For most of them that generally improves once they get out into the real world and take on some real world responsibilities.
 
Justice-seeker said:
There are a few cases that really get me. I get so into it them and then end up down the rabbit holes.
My theory has always been that she ran when she realized the police were coming. My reason is based upon the fact that I used to run cross country myself and I also got into a good bit of trouble as a teenager and I always ran (when the cops came) lots of parties in the local wooded areas ...I ran so fast one time in the dark that I ran right into a cement block. Busted my knee cap pretty bad and still kept running. Then I would hide. Many times I found myself completely alone after everyone dispersed so I can definitely see how you could end up lost. And she was already alone.
The theory that someone came along and took her or offered her a ride Is definitely a possibility, however, what are those odds? I do know it could very well happen, I just feel like it’s less likely.
I wish they would have brought out the search dogs immediately!! I mean obviously when someone crashes and the airbags go off they could be injured. They knew she was a young woman and they knew it was cold. I feel for her family. So much was botched from the start. I live nearby and have gone there a few times. There is so much forest, it’s like a needle in a haystack...
Click to expand...
I agree and sorry for the delay, I missed the alert in typical fashion for me. It also really bothered me the police took so long to start looking for her after she disappeared. I understand that they thought she ran and that as an adult she would have the right to go missing, but it was the middle of a cold winter night and she wasnt from the area, so IMO it should have been a red flag when she didnt show up the next morning. Who knows what evidence was lost forever due to the delay of the investigation
 
sony12 said:
The main issue I have with the mental illness theory is that most people who are suffering from it to the point that they are hearing voices generally aren't leading a normal school or work life. Maura by all accounts was just a normal college student who was going through a lot of the immaturity issues a lot of college students go through.

Many of them aren't wrecklessly driving or drinking too much or doing some petty theft because they are having psychosis issues but because they are extremely self absorbed and have little concept of thinking about much else other than themselves.

For most of them that generally improves once they get out into the real world and take on some real world responsibilities.
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I treat mentally ill people and do a lot of college mental health stuff. Trust me when I tell you that isn't always true that they aren't leading normal lives. There is often a prodrome, meaning a period when they withdraw from friends and others. That's when we see what we call "negative" symptoms. But not every person will experience a prodrome to the point that it's obvious. That's why diagnoses such as brief psychotic disorder exist. I have treated several college students, leading normal lives, until they develop symptoms of first-break psychosis. In one case, it was paranoia, then voices in a young man living in a dorm. He used drugs and alcohol to drown out the voices until he could no longer hide it. In another case, there was a young woman (not treated by me) who believed she had ADHD because she could not concentrate. This was the prodrome. Shortly thereafter, she stabbed herself in the stomach due to psychosis. This doesn't happen that often because schizophrenia and psychotic disorders are rare, but make no mistake, it DOES happen and the prime time is late adolescence and early adulthood due to the maturing brain circuitry. Parents are often in denial and/or try to avoid disclosing it after the fact because of the unfortunate stigma.

I don't know what happened to Maura, but I was putting it forward as a theory due to her unusual behavior, at least two car accidents and her father's behavior along with the circumstances of her disappearance.

I'll also add that earlier in the thread, people mentioned her potential involvement in the car accident involving another student. That would be a third accident, but the reason that's important too is because if that actually happened, it could have triggered a trauma response/reaction in which one can dissociate. It could also trigger a brief psychotic disorder in someone vulnerable to do it. But either way, even if she wasn't involved in that the above could potentially still apply.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
I treat mentally ill people and do a lot of college mental health stuff. Trust me when I tell you that isn't always true that they aren't leading normal lives. There is often a prodrome, meaning a period when they withdraw from friends and others. That's when we see what we call "negative" symptoms. But not every person will experience a prodrome to the point that it's obvious. That's why diagnoses such as brief psychotic disorder exist. I have treated several college students, leading normal lives, until they develop symptoms of first-break psychosis. In one case, it was paranoia, then voices in a young man living in a dorm. He used drugs and alcohol to drown out the voices until he could no longer hide it. In another case, there was a young woman (not treated by me) who believed she had ADHD because she could not concentrate. This was the prodrome. Shortly thereafter, she stabbed herself in the stomach due to psychosis. This doesn't happen that often because schizophrenia and psychotic disorders are rare, but make no mistake, it DOES happen and the prime time is late adolescence and early adulthood due to the maturing brain circuitry. Parents are often in denial and/or try to avoid disclosing it after the fact because of the unfortunate stigma.

I don't know what happened to Maura, but I was putting it forward as a theory due to her unusual behavior, at least two car accidents and her father's behavior along with the circumstances of her disappearance.

I'll also add that earlier in the thread, people mentioned her potential involvement in the car accident involving another student. That would be a third accident, but the reason that's important too is because if that actually happened, it could have triggered a trauma response/reaction in which one can dissociate. It could also trigger a brief psychotic disorder in someone vulnerable to do it. But either way, even if she wasn't involved in that the above could potentially still apply.
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Well even with that I don't think we should jump on the mental illness idea when someone simply being a stupid and immature kid will fit just as well and will cover all the same actions that we saw Maura do that night. Especially given that you yourself said that mental illnesses to that degree are pretty rare.

I think our society has gotten a little too caught up in trying to give labels to things. If we would try to explain what causes all these 18-25 year olds who do the crazy things they do why they did it than we could probably say that 90% of young people have mental issues. In reality the only explanation that is often needed is that it is just dumb kids being dumb. I'm not saying that there aren't rare cases where there are legit problems with a person. But like you said it is often pretty rare.
 
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sony12 said:
Well even with that I don't think we should jump on the mental illness idea when someone simply being a stupid and immature kid will fit just as well and will cover all the same actions that we saw Maura do that night. Especially given that you yourself said that mental illnesses to that degree are pretty rare.

I think our society has gotten a little too caught up in trying to give labels to things. If we would try to explain what causes all these 18-25 year olds who do the crazy things they do why they did it than we could probably say that 90% of young people have mental issues. In reality the only explanation that is often needed is that it is just dumb kids being dumb. I'm not saying that there aren't rare cases where there are legit problems with a person. But like you said it is often pretty rare.
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Rare does not equal non-existent. If it did, mental health workers wouldn't be the most in-demand clinical jobs in the country. I'm not saying Maura was mentally ill. I was just asking if this had been ruled out. Dumb kids don't usually have such a dramatic downfall in the matter of a couple of weeks. They have a super bad day when something goes wrong and if the day of Maura's disappearance was the only day she was acting strange then I might agree. But it wasn't. When you see what seems to be a fully functional young adult suddenly take a dramatic turn that results in these types of problems and alcohol use, then you start to wonder what else was going on. I think we all agree something happened to Maura before her disappearance that caused her to run. I think the mental illness theory is just as plausible (as the catalyst for running away) as anything else.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
Rare does not equal non-existent. If it did, mental health workers wouldn't be the most in-demand clinical jobs in the country. I'm not saying Maura was mentally ill. I was just asking if this had been ruled out. Dumb kids don't usually have such a dramatic downfall in the matter of a couple of weeks. They have a super bad day when something goes wrong and if the day of Maura's disappearance was the only day she was acting strange then I might agree. But it wasn't. When you see what seems to be a fully functional young adult suddenly take a dramatic turn that results in these types of problems and alcohol use, then you start to wonder what else was going on. I think we all agree something happened to Maura before her disappearance that caused her to run. I think the mental illness theory is just as plausible (as the catalyst for running away) as anything else.
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You can't say that Maura wasn't acting very similar to how she had always acted. There isn't anything that says Maura all of a sudden went through a sudden personality change. Someone who got caught stealing and by all accounts had struggled with an alcohol problem for awhile fits the actions of someone who would do the things Maura did the day she disappeared. And she wasn't a fully functional adult. She was a college student living on a college campus. Kids who live on college campuses tend to live in their own little world.
 
sony12 said:
You can't say that Maura wasn't acting very similar to how she had always acted. There isn't anything that says Maura all of a sudden went through a sudden personality change. Someone who got caught stealing and by all accounts had struggled with an alcohol problem for awhile fits the actions of someone who would do the things Maura did the day she disappeared. And she wasn't a fully functional adult. She was a college student living on a college campus. Kids who live on college campuses tend to live in their own little world.
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Ok.
 
running into a tree, falling into a hole/stream/mudhole/, falling off a cliff/ hill etc..falling down, tripping, avalanche, ice, drowning. Being hit by falling rocks, branches..being injured by animal traps...freezing to death etc. Running into a tree in the dark could kill you.

Could she have gone into a structure. to warm up ? an unused barn or shed?

Once as a teen a group of us caught in a very bad fog at night, wandered into a small lake , trying to find the house.

all kinds of bad things can happen in an area like this at night.

wonder how many people disappear up there? ..I know we've discussed it..mOO
 
So I have a question for anyone on here that would like to chime in. For the people that are familiar with the homes on that road. If Maura wanted to use someones phone, which house on that road within view would she feel most comfortable going to? I am curious to here opinions. Thanks
 
I was just ruminating. I don't really know which house, but I can def picture a situation of her going into someones house because she has no phone signal.

mOO. Corrected by me , not funny..
 
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minazoe said:
I was just ruminating. I don't really know which house, but I can def picture a situation of her going into someones house because she has no phone signal.

mOO. Corrected by me , not funny..
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You bring up a good point about the single guy theory. Imagine Maura showing up at the store step of a home asking to use the phone with a backpack full of liquor and the house is occupied by a couple of men who decide this is an ideal situation to have some fun. Look at that street and tell me which house you would go to to ask to use their phone.
 
we all know...right? the one with the cement? mOO
 
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