NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15

[KindMind1ofA]

There are some very unseemly accusations against the family themselves as well, which I'm guessing is the backdrop for the ugliness that Julie is referencing..

 

[TedMac]

I have a question after watching episode 7 of Julie Murray's Media Pressure podcast. Around the 24th minute mark, she mentions that her and her family were accosted at conventions, mocked at vigils honoring Maura (wtf???), publicly called 'the worst humanity had to offer'. What's that all about and who did this? I had never heard about this stuff...

The short answer is trolls are the ones doing this. Sadly, they seem to appear on most all true crime podcasts making ridiculous comments, taunting victims & their families, making completely ludicrous accusations towards the podcasters, and their listeners. The bottom line is they are miserable little people who get their kicks out of making other people uncomfortable and trying to hurt others.

 

[carbuff]

Respectfully, I don't find that possibility ludicrous. Far-fetched perhaps, but not inherently unreasonable. She was only about 10 miles+/- from I-91, where she could have hitched a ride straight north into Quebec. If she was as strong and fit as people have said, she could have been in Sherbrooke by morning.

Do I think that's what happened? Probably not. But I don't see how it could be ruled out.

 

[Tarik]

I lived in Quebec at the time, in fact I lived there for quite a while and yes it's ludacrious. Not to mention that it was investigated and ruled out on both sides of the border.

Think of it this way though: Maura survives the accident and that night in February 2004, reaches the Canadian border immediately (which is about 2 hours away from the Haverhill area where she went missing) or the next day. The border security personnel lets her in, she manages to stay in Canada indefinitely, presumably changes her identity and starts her new life there sometime in 2004 in a country where she is a foreign national and in a province (Quebec) where the main language in French and where many people do not speak English. Her mother passes away in 2009 followed by her sister in 2021 and she never bothers to show up for the funeral or contact her family. Does that seem reasonable to you? I'm not even sure she took her passport with her when she left UMass and you can't enter Canada without a passport unless you do it illegally somehow but still. If she didn't have her passport with her (and that can be verified), there's a 100% chance she didn't end up in Canada.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

I don't think it's likely she ended up in Canada, and I don't think Renners assertion about a tandem driver is very likely either.

Imo, the most likely scenario is that Maura fled the scene to avoid being caught for drunk driving, and succumbed to the elements.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't think it's likely she ended up in Canada, and I don't think Renners assertion about a tandem driver is very likely either.

Imo, the most likely scenario is that Maura fled the scene to avoid being caught for drunk driving, and succumbed to the elements.

Same. There have been no shortage of cases where police know where someone entered a particular (usually wooded) area, and still they haven't been found. Not finding her body isn't evidence of foul play. Her priority would have been getting away from that car and sobering up. Unfortunately, the elements weren't conducive to survival.

 

[Tarik]

There were no footprints in the woods or in the snow nearby that could have been from her. She couldn't have gone far in those woods which were searched thoroughly just a few days after her disappearance, she wasn't dressed properly for the occasion and it was too cold.

 

[MassGuy]

There were no footprints in the woods or in the snow nearby that could have been from her. She couldn't have gone far in those woods which were searched thoroughly just a few days after her disappearance, she wasn't dressed properly for the occasion and it was too cold.

She could have entered from one of the side streets. If you’re drunk enough, you aren’t thinking about the cold. It also dumbs your senses. (I think the odds are overwhelmingly likely that she was intoxicated).

She turned down a ride, and didn’t knock on the closest door.

It’s not unusual for bodies to be found years later in an area that had already been searched.

I think the odds of some super lucky killer encountering her are much more unlikely than something there is quite a bit of precedent for.

Excellent read here about another case, the guy was found found though. How 1,600 People Disappeared on Our Public Lands

 

[Tarik]

The thing is, that theory would only work if those woods weren't extensively searched within 4-5 days after the disappearance and they were. I wouldn't be against conducting a new search though 20 years later you are less likely to find anything. Keep in mind none of her personal belongings were ever found, in fact absolutely nothing was ever found.

A lucky killer encountering her is very unlikely but a lucky killer spotting her in a store nearby and deciding to follow her hoping something would happen so he could snatch her is not that unlikely.

 

[snarast]

She steals, drinks while driving and has bizarre affective mood swings - if she wasn‘t a pretty athletic/perfect white college girl absolutely nobody would care. I really don’t get all the attention this case keeps getting. She was having a meltdown and unfortunately perished like so many do, likely because of the cold. It’s very sad but it is not uncommon. Not in cold climates anyway.

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

She steals, drinks while driving and has bizarre affective mood swings - if she wasn‘t a pretty athletic/perfect white college girl absolutely nobody would care. I really don’t get all the attention this case keeps getting. She was having a meltdown and unfortunately perished like so many do, likely because of the cold. It’s very sad but it is not uncommon. Not in cold climates anyway.

There are a variety of factors, but one is the family’s persistence. I was listening to Julie’s podcast, and Fred explains he tried to get himself in every media outlet that would have him. And the bar for “news” is pretty low, so I would think most family members in a similar situation could have similar success. But it's a double edged sword, it invites a lot of scrutiny, rumors, and speculation that is unwanted and unhelpful. MOO

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

As for Maura declining the offer of help, I do think it's most likely because she didn't want to have the police come, but just for another perspective, I've declined help before just out of reflex when I really needed it. Combination of being an introvert and preferring to avoid any interactions with people (and Julie described her family as introverts), and the fact that as a woman alone, I feel more vulnerable and prefer to avoid interactibg with a group of men for that reason.

But my car had run out of gas on the driveway into the gas station and I had no plan. (After sending away the first group of guys who offered to help, I came to my senses and accepted the next offer of help I received).

 

[KindMind1ofA]

There were no footprints in the woods or in the snow nearby that could have been from her. She couldn't have gone far in those woods

This is a prevalent perspective, but I don't think it gives enough credence to Maura's athleticism. If Maura was properly motivated to get away from the crash scene, I'd propose that she could easily have covered several miles on the road before stepping off to find cover.

It took months for searchers to find Ashley Turcotte, with the benefit of technology like thermal imaging drones that wouldn't have been available at the time of Maura's disappearance.. Ashley was found just a half mile from her car. If we give Maura credit for being able to cover 5 miles, that could mean a search area 100x the size of Ashley's.

 

[Tarik]

This is a prevalent perspective, but I don't think it gives enough credence to Maura's athleticism. If Maura was properly motivated to get away from the crash scene, I'd propose that she could easily have covered several miles on the road before stepping off to find cover.

It took months for searchers to find Ashley Turcotte, with the benefit of technology like thermal imaging drones that wouldn't have been available at the time of Maura's disappearance.. Ashley was found just a half mile from her car. If we give Maura credit for being able to cover 5 miles, that could mean a search area 100x the size of Ashley's.

Athleticism or not, she's not going to run for miles at 7:30 pm in freezing winter conditions when she is potentially drunk and not properly dressed. The woods around the crash site were searched in a 5-mile radius.

 

[snarast]

There are a variety of factors, but one is the family’s persistence. I was listening to Julie’s podcast, and Fred explains he tried to get himself in every media outlet that would have him. And the bar for “news” is pretty low, so I would think most family members in a similar situation could have similar success. But it's a double edged sword, it invites a lot of scrutiny, rumors, and speculation that is unwanted and unhelpful. MOO

Yes, she definitely has a family who fights for her, that is for sure.

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

What are people’s thoughts on the wire tap that the investigation team requested pre-2008? They’re not easy to get, so I don’t think they would request one without having pretty compelling evidence of foul play and reason to suspect someone. Wire taps aren’t fishing expeditions in the way requesting bank records, cell phone records, etc can be.

On Episode 7 of Media Pressure, MM’s sister says (regarding the father’s lawsuit for the case records):
“Although we didn't gain access to most of the records, we did learn some valuable information as a result of the court case. We learned four polygraphs were administered, one wire tap was requested, grand jury subpoenas were issued, and police logs and dispatch records were withheld because they could pinpoint a suspect.”

 

[annpats]

In Ep.7 of Media Pressure, MM’s sister says (re her Dad’s lawsuit for the case records):“We learned four polygraphs were administered, one wire tap was requested, grand jury subpoenas were issued, and police logs and dispatch records were withheld because they could pinpoint a suspect.”

Well, that's interesting, the use of the word "could" pinpoint a suspect. Becauee either he's a suspect or he's not

And iif the police had a suspect, you think they would start working on any potential DNA of Maura's he may have had on him/his clothes/his car etc. etc. Gather that evidence! There must have been something, some clue somewhere.

I also wonder if this "suspect" was the person who was wire-tapped...?
And perhaps nothing ever became of it, he never mentioned anything over the phone. I wonder if the wire-tap is still in place? He may slip up at some point, even decades later.

 

[scrimpies]

My speculation: I've always believed the woman who insisted car 001 was there and that perhaps someone was driving the car who should not have been and they got Maura in the car to give her a ride and then... no idea. It seems like the investigation is botched and it's plausible that's by design.

 

[annpats]

My speculation: I've always believed the woman who insisted car 001 was there and that perhaps someone was driving the car who should not have been and they got Maura in the car to give her a ride and then... no idea. It seems like the investigation is botched and it's plausible that's by design.

Yes, of course, that's the other reason why the police dispatch records were withheld..... because it would implicate one of the policemen. Or show that something didn't line up the way it should have.

I also believe there was something strange going on with car 001, then drove past the lady witness twice. She had no reason to lie.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

This is my rabbit hole case. I dove down most of them. It is the strangest case where there were so many witnesses yet no one knows where she went. The most plausible is she succumbed to the elements; however, most of the options are possible to a degree. The only one not plausible to me is living completely off the grid somewhere for this long. She'd have to know people who could get her new I.D. and new social. That costs money, money she didn't have. The wiretap is intriguing new information I hadn't heard before. Wonder who that was on? The lady who saw the same cop car twice is interesting as well. I could never find when she first disclosed this information. I would probably remember something like that because it is weird, but would I have the night correct. Memories are maleable and become corroded over time. IMO