NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 3

[Peabody]

I had a few family members and close friends die while I was in college. Like UMASS, my school had the same policy. No one ever asked me for proof. Additionally, when I was a freshman, I needed to leave college for a few days to clear my head about things and I admit to using the death in the family excuse.

I saw a poll in a newspaper not long ago that stated "death in the family" is the most used excuse EVEN when there is not a death.

 

[mocity]

I just read the actual policy and it indicates the instructor "can" ask for documentation. It doesn't say they "have to". I read it as though they are actually discouraging it since it might hurt someone's feelings which was my thought on why I have never been asked nor would I ask one of my employees. It seems heartless.

From the policy:
"If an absence is attributed to the death of a person close to the student, an instructor can request a copy of the obituary or death notice, and some evidence of the student’s relationship to the deceased. (Instructors should be aware, however, that in a situation of genuine grief and loss, this request is usually perceived as quite callous, or even outrageous, though this is not the instructor’s intent.) "

 

[docwho3]

I just read the actual policy and it indicates the instructor "can" ask for documentation. It doesn't say they "have to". I read it as though they are actually discouraging it since it might hurt someone's feelings which was my thought on why I have never been asked nor would I ask one of my employees. It seems heartless.

From the policy:
"If an absence is attributed to the death of a person close to the student, an instructor can request a copy of the obituary or death notice, and some evidence of the student’s relationship to the deceased. (Instructors should be aware, however, that in a situation of genuine grief and loss, this request is usually perceived as quite callous, or even outrageous, though this is not the instructor’s intent.) "

Yes that was included in the quote and link which I posted in post # 409 and the fact that the policy says that a prof can ask for documentation is enough to establish that Maura knew that she could very well be asked to provide such. She had no guarantee that she could just lie and skate by with it.

 

[Peabody]

Originally Posted by mocity
I just read the actual policy and it indicates the instructor "can" ask for documentation. It doesn't say they "have to". I read it as though they are actually discouraging it since it might hurt someone's feelings which was my thought on why I have never been asked nor would I ask one of my employees. It seems heartless.

From the policy:
"If an absence is attributed to the death of a person close to the student, an instructor can request a copy of the obituary or death notice, and some evidence of the student’s relationship to the deceased. (Instructors should be aware, however, that in a situation of genuine grief and loss, this request is usually perceived as quite callous, or even outrageous, though this is not the instructor’s intent.) "

Yes that was included in the quote and link which I posted in post # 409 and the fact that the policy says that a prof can ask for documentation is enough to establish that Maura knew that she could very well be asked to provide such. She had no guarantee that she could just lie and skate by with it.

However, the policy definitely indicates that any logical and reasonable person would assume they would not be asked. Especially, when they had never had had any issue with being absent.

.

​

 

[docwho3]

. . .However, the policy definitely indicates that any logical and reasonable person would assume they would not be asked. Especially, when they had never had had any issue with being absent. . .

I disagree with your conclusion. The policy quoted only warns profs to understand and expect that some students may not understand the necessity of asking for documentation. It in no wise says don't ask for it and in no wise says that profs should avoid asking. That is only a conclusion that you draw in your own mind.

I, on the other hand, do not at all get the same conclusions as you from reading the policy inspite of your assertion that "any logical and reasonable person would assume they would not be asked." Perhaps your statement should be amended to read "any logical and reasonable person would assume they would not be asked and only those who agree with me are logical and reasonable", as that seems to have been the implication of your wording.

And I also note: We are only speaking of the policy of the college and yet she had 2 jobs so was the other one also subject to Umass college student absenteeism policy or could it have had its own policy also requiring proofs?

 

[nnglas]

I disagree with your conclusion. The policy quoted only warns profs to understand and expect that some students may not understand the necessity of asking for documentation. It in no wise says don't ask for it and in no wise says that profs should avoid asking. That is only a conclusion that you draw in your own mind.

I, on the other hand, do not at all get the same conclusions as you from reading the policy inspite of your assertion that "any logical and reasonable person would assume they would not be asked." Perhaps your statement should be amended to read "any logical and reasonable person would assume they would not be asked and only those who agree with me are logical and reasonable", as that seems to have been the implication of your wording.

And I also note: We are only speaking of the policy of the college and yet she had 2 jobs so was the other one also subject to Umass college student absenteeism policy or could it have had its own policy also requiring proofs?

Thank you Docwho3, I agree with you. My point is that if I read that policy, I would worry that some professor might ask and then what? The fact that someone posted that the most used excuse was "death in the family", I would be worried someone would ask. We are talking about college students here. She was going to be gone for a week. All she did was send an email, she didn't go in person, she didn't call, she sent an email. Someone I believe would have found this suspect, but maybe not. My point is why risk it? She could have used the car accident as an excuse. She did have documentation of that. But whatever, maybe she didn't think her lie would be challenged. I was just pointing out how odd that story was. Someone would have asked her about it, and then she would have to say who died..... Too me that is alot of risk. It would also require concocting another story. According to everyone who knows Maura, she is such a good person. Why put yourself in the position to have to tell a bald face lie.

 

[mocity]

Maybe she hadn't even read the policy? Maybe she was upset and just needed to get away from work and said the first thing that came to her mind. Who knows.

 

[docwho3]

Thank you Docwho3, I agree with you. My point is that if I read that policy, I would worry that some professor might ask and then what? The fact that someone posted that the most used excuse was "death in the family", I would be worried someone would ask. We are talking about college students here. She was going to be gone for a week. All she did was send an email, she didn't go in person, she didn't call, she sent an email. Someone I believe would have found this suspect, but maybe not. My point is why risk it? She could have used the car accident as an excuse. She did have documentation of that. But whatever, maybe she didn't think her lie would be challenged. I was just pointing out how odd that story was. Someone would have asked her about it, and then she would have to say who died..... Too me that is alot of risk. It would also require concocting another story. According to everyone who knows Maura, she is such a good person. Why put yourself in the position to have to tell a bald face lie.

You sound reasonable and logical to me and I agree. Your thoughts on the email part of things was a point I had overlooked, good catch.

For readers in general:My problem with with her having lied was not that she lied but that it was a stupid lie and Maura was so very smart and this was so out of character according to what was and was not said of her. I believe the "stupid" lie served a purpose (which I have previously stated) in misleading people to believe she planned to return in a few days when in fact she meant to be gone forever. The "stupid" lie was evidently out of character for Maura. I notice that in all the interviews of family and friends no one ever once said that Maura had a propensity to tell stupid lies that were easily found out. I believe she was described as "elusive" in a news article quoting one of the young women that had went to the same school.
And not one person in news reports that I read had said Maura was stupid.

So I don't believe Maura did anything stupid unless it suited her needs.

 

[petra]

Thank you Docwho3, I agree with you. My point is that if I read that policy, I would worry that some professor might ask and then what? The fact that someone posted that the most used excuse was "death in the family", I would be worried someone would ask. We are talking about college students here. She was going to be gone for a week. All she did was send an email, she didn't go in person, she didn't call, she sent an email. Someone I believe would have found this suspect, but maybe not. My point is why risk it? She could have used the car accident as an excuse. She did have documentation of that. But whatever, maybe she didn't think her lie would be challenged. I was just pointing out how odd that story was. Someone would have asked her about it, and then she would have to say who died..... Too me that is alot of risk. It would also require concocting another story. According to everyone who knows Maura, she is such a good person. Why put yourself in the position to have to tell a bald face lie.

Funeral homes provide a letter, copy of the death certificate and obit routinely when asked, just for this purpose-employment, school, travel etc.
Especially for deaths, were it could not be seen in local paper.

Did Maura send one email and copy to all?? Didn't it say something like I will be in touch when I get back next week? Wouldn't anybody profs,co-workers,friends,employees perhaps send her a card of sympathy or chip in for flowers for funeral?

So many white lies, IMO--a young woman who went to WP-with strict honor code, family and BF in military, supposedly very responsible, pursuing career in nursing with strict ethical code....it just doesn't add up.

Never got clear understanding about condition of her car. Asked if she drove home and used it during Xmas break and drove it back. Believe Peabody said the car was last seeen about 2 weeks before her disapperance by family and friends. Didn't Dad come up sat/sun to see about trading in car for a different one? Did they ever look for cars? wouldn't they drive the one they thought of trading in with them whhile looking?

 

[petra]

Can someone pls clarify for me--

Aren't mobil phone calls free after 9pm until 6 am or so ? What I mean by 'free' is that the calls do not count against the minutes purchased on monthly basis.

Thus there is no record of calls into or made from the mobil phone.

ETA- Why was Maura filing out insurance claim on dad's car? Wasn't it in his name and under his insurance?

Was this accident reported to police or was she stopped by police?
Did she just have accident and continue on to hotel and then tell dad about it?
How did they know how much damage was-10,000-if Maura went missing Monday, did they get an estimate on Sunday?

 

[murraydwyer]

Can someone pls clarify for me--

Aren't mobil phone calls free after 9pm until 6 am or so ? What I mean by 'free' is that the calls do not count against the minutes purchased on monthly basis.

Thus there is no record of calls into or made from the mobil phone.

ETA- Why was Maura filing out insurance claim on dad's car? Wasn't it in his name and under his insurance?

Was this accident reported to police or was she stopped by police?
Did she just have accident and continue on to hotel and then tell dad about it?
How did they know how much damage was-10,000-if Maura went missing Monday, did they get an estimate on Sunday?

Phone records would show the number, time and date of the call and on my bill a code showing the type of service...ie, free time or pay time regardless of when it was called...

The car was in Maura's father's name, however, she knew the details of the accident...he was not the driver. It is my understanding that the police were at the scene...I don't know whether they were called or happened on the car, but my understanding is that Maura was not cited.

I don't think there was ever any mention of getting an estimate on Sunday...the police in NH released the figure much later.

 

[czechmate7]

Originally Posted by mocity



However, the policy definitely indicates that any logical and reasonable person would assume they would not be asked. Especially, when they had never had had any issue with being absent.

.

I don't want to sound ugly, but......
I don't think Maura was thinking logically or reasonably; here we have a person who tells an awful lie of a death in the family then, orchestrates a bout of hysterical drama after a mysterious phone call <~or not, goes back to her dorm to be consoled by her non-existent roommate she claimed to have, emails all instructors plus 2 jobs about a death (not) in the family(I wonder which member she threw under the bus?); doesn't confide with the love of her life boyfriend and disappears after withdrawing an excessive amount of money (face it, for a college student with 2 jobs $250 isn't pocket change..plus, she could have had more money on her) and leaves the scene of an accident with help on the way. I could be wrong, but this has voluntarily missing written all over it!! Other than the fact that Maura cannot be found, can someone please tell me why the family suspects foul play?

 

[docwho3]

I don't want to sound ugly, but......
I don't think Maura was thinking logically or reasonably; here we have a person who tells an awful lie of a death in the family then, orchestrates a bout of hysterical drama after a mysterious phone call <~or not, goes back to her dorm to be consoled by her non-existent roommate she claimed to have, emails all instructors plus 2 jobs about a death (not) in the family(I wonder which member she threw under the bus?); doesn't confide with the love of her life boyfriend and disappears after withdrawing an excessive amount of money (face it, for a college student with 2 jobs $250 isn't pocket change..plus, she could have had more money on her) and leaves the scene of an accident with help on the way. I could be wrong, but this has voluntarily missing written all over it!! Other than the fact that Maura cannot be found, can someone please tell me why the family suspects foul play?

So far the explanation I have read in posts is along the lines of: "She just would not do such a thing."

 

[Peabody]

Prayers for Maura and her loved ones...

Thinking of Maura, family and loved ones today.

Hope the get some answers soon.
Two years too long.

Today is now 25 months since Maura went missing.

Continued prayers for Maura, her family and loved ones.

 

[czechmate7]

So far the explanation I have read in posts is along the lines of: "She just would not do such a thing."

I understand the family believes that, but I wish they would change their angle and believe that she "could" have done such a thing which would give them hope that Maura is alive and well. I think and hope Maura is ok and enjoying her new found life.

 

[Peabody]

I understand the family believes that, but I wish they would change their angle and believe that she "could" have done such a thing which would give them hope that Maura is alive and well. I think and hope Maura is ok and enjoying her new found life.

Anyone who knows the Murrays or the Rausches fully understand that until they have knowledge the Maura is not living, they WILL NOT GIVE UP HOPE.

Maura's boyfriend was quoted as saying "I fear the worst, but hope for the best."

hydemi pointed out several posts back about the "profile" of Maura: her independence supports that she would take time off from school without notifying her family, boyfriend or friends. Maura's profile also suggests that she would not run away from her family and boyfriend.

I know for certain that the family knows of nothing that was bothering Maura, but they are concerned about her state of mind: ie the hysterical crying only one day before her dad came to help her look for a car. Then there are TWO accidents in three days: it is possible that Maura is/was suffering mental/emotional problems or even physical problems. It could be that Maura felt the need to escape. But, the professionals involved in this case, have told the family that based on their victimology studies, they believe it ***unlikely*** that Maura would voluntarily stay away from her family and friends for 2 years.

I think it is important to consider the word of professionals. Also, I know that there are those of you who want ***proof*** of this information.

Sorry - no proof - just my word.

Praying for Maura, her family and those who love her.

 

[czechmate7]

I think it is important to consider the word of professionals. Also, I know that there are those of you who want ***proof*** of this information.

QUOTE]

I don't know if I can totally agree; aren't the professionals going on information given to them by family and friends?? If these are the same people who believe that Maura "would never do such a thing" then the information they give will reflect that.

I read in a earlier post (I think maybe from you Peabody) that LT Rausch felt Maura wanted to tell him something on one of their last phone conversations? Please correct me if this is wrong, I just remember the statement standing out in my mind. Could Maura have been expecting? With everything going on in her life.. that would have definitely throw a wrench in life plans, cause a person to want to get away, not to mention put someone in emotional hysterics!

I wouldn't have a problem with the theory of Maura being a victim of foul play if the week prior to her disappearance she hadn't basically set herself up to go missing.

 

[Peabody]

I think it is important to consider the word of professionals. Also, I know that there are those of you who want ***proof*** of this information.

QUOTE]

I don't know if I can totally agree; aren't the professionals going on information given to them by family and friends?? If these are the same people who believe that Maura "would never do such a thing" then the information they give will reflect that.

I read in a earlier post (I think maybe from you Peabody) that LT Rausch felt Maura wanted to tell him something on one of their last phone conversations? Please correct me if this is wrong, I just remember the statement standing out in my mind. Could Maura have been expecting? With everything going on in her life.. that would have definitely throw a wrench in life plans, cause a person to want to get away, not to mention put someone in emotional hysterics!

I wouldn't have a problem with the theory of Maura being a victim of foul play if the week prior to her disappearance she hadn't basically set herself up to go missing.

I would have to research this to be ****certain**** but I believe he said that in hindsight, he believed there was more that was upsetting her than the car wreck with her Dad's car.

sure she could have been expecting - girls don't runaway TODAY because of babies - it might make her hysterical.

I don't agree that that she set herself up to go missing the week prior: the only things that happened were her hysterical crying -which was real and certainly a red flag about something - and her wrecking her dad's car - her first wreck ever.

Perhaps the wreck was from her dealing with a mental/emotional isssue, but most likely from the icey roads.

I did receive a pm from someone who while in school experienced a few wrecks, crying jags, etc and learned they were having mini strokes.

There are just so many possibilities and unfortunately, all we have is speculation and the factual knowledge of those who know Maura; professsionals do make judgements on victimology reports - these reports are gathered from everyone who knows the "victim" and the resulting anaysis gives the profile of the person: Maura's profile does not show her to be someone who runs from problems, but faces them head on with the loving support of many family members, friends and a boyfriend and his family.

Granted, running away must be considered, as well as succumbing to the elements and being harmed.

Praying that Maura is safe.

 

[nnglas]

I am wondering if anyone has ever considered that maybe Maura made it to her destination, and that is when foul play occurred. I mean the only remarkable about that accident that night she disappeared is the accident. But there was the call to her fiance's cell phone the next day. Perhaps what LE did in the case didn't make a difference. There is no evidence of foul play where she had the accident. SBD said she refused help, CW claims he saw her running on the road, then there was a phone call to the fiance the next day. Perhaps more time should be spent on where Maura was going, instead of blaming LE for not doing their job. I mean even the family thinks the phone call to the fiance was from Maura, which would seem to mean that she did in fact walk away from the accident. Has anyone ever tried to figure out if Maura made any reservations or anything, she did try to call someone about a place to stay. So, I would think it likely that she inquired other places. Perhaps someone should try to figure out where Maura was going. It seems to me she was only side tracked by the accident.

One other question for anyone who knows, did they find Maura's cell phone in her car, or did she take that with her?

 

[docwho3]

I am wondering if anyone has ever considered that maybe Maura made it to her destination, and that is when foul play occurred. . .

Yes, I have considered that possibility and I could not rule it out. Its just there is no evidence to rule it in either. I guess we won't know unless a body turns up somewhere. But without evidence to point to foul play such as blood or a body or at least someone coming forward with info that someone they know killed her, I must stick with the conservative live runaway theory.
********
And you are right in another way too. Unless someone looks for that runaway destination and finds it, finding the body or the truth might become much more difficult.