NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[McSpy]

pittsburghgirl - great analysis!

scoops - sounds like you believe MM was hedging her bets - leaving a way to come back if she decided that's what she wanted to do.... very good analysis as well!

The note on top of the boxes - that's what really gets to me. It's a very important clue, but do we know she placed it there herself? Whomever investigated her room might have seen it amongst her things and placed it on top of the boxes, just so it would get lost or as something to look at further...
Photos of her room without anything being disturbed - that what is needed...

ETA: Maybe the placement of the note was something as simple as MM wanting to get rid of it, or taking it with her, and she forgot.... that would be something, with some much be read into it..

It is the same as the "rag in the tailpipe" issue. It could be innocent or a sign. Perhaps, the note was on the floor and she picked it up and placed it on the boxes as she ran out the door. Simple gestures can bring on more meaning when a person disappears. The note could be a sign or it could mean nothing. Yet, the answer may lie somewhere in between. It could mean she was upset with her boyfriend, but it may not also mean she was going to kill herself in NH. There is no doubt she was upset about something though.

 

[scoops]

Well, with all due respect, Stowe really isn't secluded (it's a winter-long traffic jam), and Burlington is neither secluded nor mountainous.

I am unaware that MM, dad and/or family had vacationed in Stowe or in Burlington, although it may very well be true. Do you know a source for this?

Thanks...

Here you go. This is from an article done by a boston globe correspondent.

"Murray's father said he also discovered a note card that mentioned Burlington among many personal belongings she had packed in her car. The two last visited the northern Vermont city on Columbus Day weekend, when they hiked nearby Camel's Hump Mountain and Mount Mansfield."

This article was written just 12 days after Maura went missing.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Scoops, you make a good argument for reading Maura's actions as potentially indicating suicide. It seems likely to me that she was, at the very least, contemplating major change in her life (which would also explain these same factors). I think is just as plausible that she was all but dropping out of school. If she had, as I suspect, some problems with abusing alcohol, she might have been using it to self-medicate, with the usual poor results because alcohol is a depressant--thus, alcohol abuse as a symptom of other issues. Or alcohol could have been the primary, core issue, affecting mood, school performance, relationships, etc. We will probably never know, unless someone does the research and publishes a comprehensive account that starts at least as far back as West Point. But I still wonder how a person alone, in the dark in a strange, mostly rural, place would be able to commit suicide without anyone finding the body or her clothing, the backpack, etc. How far could she get in those conditions if she went off-road at that time of night? I could see her dying of exposure, especially if she was intoxicated, but surely someone woukdhave found her remains or other items.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

This article has been linked before, but it is worth going back to in light of our recent discussion about the note/email/letter. This author, Kerry Miller, states that what was found was a two-year old letter from her boyfriend, not an email and not a note to her boyfriend--as stated by Lt. Scarinza. That "letter to" business stinks to high heaven and seems to me intended to bolster the suicide/runaway theory. This article makes it clear that both Fred Murray and the team of investigators (not active LE) reject suicide or runaway as explanations; the detectives are frankly looking for her body and expect to find it fairly close to where she was abducted. For what it's worth, Fred Murray seems to have come to terms with the idea that Maura is gone, and it would be hard to argue that rape and murder would be more palatable than a suicide or runaway scenario. I would dearly like to know what the private investigators know.

http://issuu.com/soco/docs/april11?mode=embed&layout=http://skin.issuu.com/v/light/layout.xml&showFlipBtn=true&pageNumber=76

 

[scoops]

This article has been linked before, but it is worth going back to in light of our recent discussion about the note/email/letter. This author, Kerry Miller, states that what was found was a two-year old letter from her boyfriend, not an email and not a note to her boyfriend--as stated by Lt. Scarinza. That "letter to" business stinks to high heaven and seems to me intended to bolster the suicide/runaway theory. This article makes it clear that both Fred Murray and the team of investigators (not active LE) reject suicide or runaway as explanations; the detectives are frankly looking for her body and expect to find it fairly close to where she was abducted. For what it's worth, Fred Murray seems to have come to terms with the idea that Maura is gone, and it would be hard to argue that rape and murder would be more palatable than a suicide or runaway scenario. I would dearly like to know what the private investigators know.

http://issuu.com/soco/docs/april11?mode=embed&layout=http://skin.issuu.com/v/light/layout.xml&showFlipBtn=true&pageNumber=76

I would say that the part about the note in the article doesn't prove a thing, except maybe provide a time-line for how old the note was. It has been recently released (likely from the police themselves) to the blogger James Renner that it was in fact an old EMAIL from Billy to Maura.

This article also goes on to cite one of the main investigators believing strongly that someone placed a rag in maura's tailpipe while she was getting gas.

From day one, Fred Murray has identified the rag as coming from Maura's trunk of her car. (very hard for a pshyco killer to gain access to a random strangers trunk just so they can grab a rag???????????)

Also the whole rag thing has been played out so much. It was clean and loosely placed in her tailpipe. She likely did stop for gas, but I would all but guarantee anyone that Maura didn't stop for gas at the swiftwater store that is close to where she wrecked. She most likely got gas off of the 302 (where there is restaurants, gas staitions, live people, a town), instead of blindly driving into the forest with low fuel and just hoping that there will be a gas station somewhere in the woods.

The rag would not stay in her tailpipe but for a few seconds if she was driving down the road with it in there unknowingly, therefore the rag thing has nothing to do with foul play in my book. Maura put the rag there just before she left the scene of the accident.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

OK--so we have three accounts of the "writing" that was found in Maura's room. One we know is inaccurate and misleading, the "note to Billy," is Lt.Scarinza's account. The soco article calls it a letter, and if I am recallimg correctly, was attributed to Maura's family (I think Fred), correcting the misleading impression left by Scarinza. Unless Renner provided a source for the writing being an email, I remain skeptical. If we see the "writing" as indicative of Maura's state of mind, it would be worth pondering why she would print out an old email (or if she had printed it a while back, why it turned up and took center stage in the case, allowing Scarinza to spin the suicide story. That's the real importance of the letter/note/email--it's an indicator of Scarinza's point of view, or perhaps of his lack of interest in anything that didn't serve his POV.

 

[scoops]

OK--so we have three accounts of the "writing" that was found in Maura's room. One we know is inaccurate and misleading, the "note to Billy," is Lt.Scarinza's account. The soco article calls it a letter, and if I am recallimg correctly, was attributed to Maura's family (I think Fred), correcting the misleading impression left by Scarinza. Unless Renner provided a source for the writing being an email, I remain skeptical. If we see the "writing" as indicative of Maura's state of mind, it would be worth pondering why she would print out an old email (or if she had printed it a while back, why it turned up and took center stage in the case, allowing Scarinza to spin the suicide story. That's the real importance of the letter/note/email--it's an indicator of Scarinza's point of view, or perhaps of his lack of interest in anything that didn't serve his POV.

I think you are reading way too much into how things are being reported by different people.

What Lt. Scarinza said all along was that maura left a note to her boyfriend (In no way does that mean she wrote it). The Lt. believes Maura left a note out in the open for a reason, intending on Billy finding it. He may be wrong in his theory, but he definitely isn't being inaccurate or misleading.

The second version from the blogger James Renner I believe to be credible because he physically has gone and met with the police to talk about this case.

The version from the SOCO story doesn't discredit or conflict with either of what Lt. Scarinza has said or from what James Renner has revealed. Fred referring to an old note or letter (Doesn't mean he wasn't talking about an email). Anyone older than 40 would likely refer to any kind of correspondence between two people as a note or a letter as opposed to an email, tweet or facebook response. That is just the difference between today's culture. Today's youth probably wouldn't even know what a personal letter is anymore. They do most of their correspondence online in some form or fashion.

 

[McSpy]

I would say that the part about the note in the article doesn't prove a thing, except maybe provide a time-line for how old the note was. It has been recently released (likely from the police themselves) to the blogger James Renner that it was in fact an old EMAIL from Billy to Maura.

This article also goes on to cite one of the main investigators believing strongly that someone placed a rag in maura's tailpipe while she was getting gas.

From day one, Fred Murray has identified the rag as coming from Maura's trunk of her car. (very hard for a pshyco killer to gain access to a random strangers trunk just so they can grab a rag???????????)

Also the whole rag thing has been played out so much. It was clean and loosely placed in her tailpipe. She likely did stop for gas, but I would all but guarantee anyone that Maura didn't stop for gas at the swiftwater store that is close to where she wrecked. She most likely got gas off of the 302 (where there is restaurants, gas staitions, live people, a town), instead of blindly driving into the forest with low fuel and just hoping that there will be a gas station somewhere in the woods.

The rag would not stay in her tailpipe but for a few seconds if she was driving down the road with it in there unknowingly, therefore the rag thing has nothing to do with foul play in my book. Maura put the rag there just before she left the scene of the accident.

Agreed! The "rag in the tailpipe" is just noise. I don't think it has anything to do with her disappearance.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

McSpy--I agree that the rag is likely to be "noise."

However, I can't make the leap that is required if we don't see a difference between a note to someone, implying that Maura wrote a note before she left and a note from someone, which could mean nothing relevant to the disappearance. The only purpose for a note to someone, left in a packed room prior to "disappearance" would to say goodbye or "this is why I left/killed myself." This iswhat Scarinza implies, if he was quoted correctly in the media--a suicide note. In this scenario, Scainza is implying that the note supports his suicide/ runaway theory. or he was misquoted.

A note from could be meaningful (insofar as it might indicate someing she was reflecting on, particularly since it was an old email) or just noise (e.g., she found it when she packed and
left it out for no significant reason).

If LE assumed Maura had run away or killed herself, there was no reason to follow up on her phone calls, etc., which of course is exactly what happened. And so vital information might have been lost. Part of the difficulty of this case is sorting out whether this is a voluntary disappearance/suicide or an adbuction/murder. We might divide what we know and talk about into these parts:

1. Maura's state of mind prior to leaving Amherst (the crying incident, wrecking her dad's car, the fact that her things in the dorm were packed, even her leaving West Point).
2. The events immediately preceding the trip and the trip itself (the calls about lodging, computer searches, calls to Billy and others, the emails to professors lying about a death in the family, taking $ from her account, buying the liquor, and packing items to take with her.)
3. The accident in NH, including speculation about the direction she was traveling, what the car hit and how it was damaged, whether the accident was staged, whether Maura was smoking (according to a witness) or trying to make a cell phone call after the wreck, the rag in the tailpipe, the encounter with the school bus driver, what was seen from her window by other witnesses, the calls to police and police logs and reports of the incident.
4. Reported sightings of Maura after she left the scene (at least one of which has. been disproven).
5. LE efforts at the scene
6. Subsequent LE actions, including notification of the family, the search ofmher room, etc.
7. Actions and investigations of others, including the family and private investigators.

The fact is if Maura was abducted, almost all of what is known and talked about is "noise."

 

[OldSteve]

pittsburghgirl - you summed it up when you said, "The fact is if Maura was abducted, almost all of what is known and talked about is "noise." "

What bothers me the most about the email/letter/note - seems LE looked at it with tunnel-vision. Since MM things were packed up in boxes, perhaps she found it while packing and simply placed it out in the open to deal with later...

Perhaps she had recently printed it out, wanting a hard copy for whatever reason .... Curious if it was still on her PC... maybe she deleted it after printing it..... left it out as a reminder that to file it when she got back...

 

[pittsburghgirl]

pittsburghgirl - you summed it up when you said, "The fact is if Maura was abducted, almost all of what is known and talked about is "noise." "

What bothers me the most about the email/letter/note - seems LE looked at it with tunnel-vision. Since MM things were packed up in boxes, perhaps she found it while packing and simply placed it out in the open to deal with later...

Perhaps she had recently printed it out, wanting a hard copy for whatever reason .... Curious if it was still on her PC... maybe she deleted it after printing it..... left it out as a reminder that to file it when she got back...

I have the same questions. She might also have run across it while packing and just wanted to read it and didn't bother to put it back. I even save notes and cards from my husband, so I am never surprised when others hold on to letters, whether positive or negative.

 

[scoops]

Guys, Gals,

Always remember that what police and authorities say to the public is never the whole story. In most cases, they release the littlest information they can get away with releasing.

Searching Maura's computer for instance would likely come up with a lot more information about Maura and her state of mind than just some mapquest directions.


So to say the police are having tunnel vision about this might be completely false.

Would like to hear more about Maura's older sister Julie and find out her link with billy rausch. I believe she (Julie) introduced the two (Could be wrong, but it would make sense since they were at westpoint before maura got there).

Wonder why the only sister we ever hear about is the one Maura had the phone call with that thursday night that turned out to be rather routine.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

No doubt that there are many people, not just LE, who know more about Maura and her state of mind than I do. The computer example is apt in regard to that point.

However, it isn't what they know that I don't know that matters. It is that LE had the information about the phone call in which she attempted to rent a condo. If anyone thought the computer or the phone or the college dorm room might give insight into the nature of the trip or point to someone who knew her whereabouts, then why not follow up on that call? Such a call might have come to nothing (if Maura had been suicidal, she likely would not have told a potential landlord/host about her plan.) And, generally, my view is that most of what we knownis white noise. But any competent investigation would have covered that ground, So either LE was incompetent, indifferent, or already convinced it was a voluntary disappearance.

 

[McSpy]

No doubt that there are many people, not just LE, who know more about Maura and her state of mind than I do. The computer example is apt in regard to that point.

However, it isn't what they know that I don't know that matters. It is that LE had the information about the phone call in which she attempted to rent a condo. If anyone thought the computer or the phone or the college dorm room might give insight into the nature of the trip or point to someone who knew her whereabouts, then why not follow up on that call? Such a call might have come to nothing (if Maura had been suicidal, she likely would not have told a potential landlord/host about her plan.) And, generally, my view is that most of what we knownis white noise. But any competent investigation would have covered that ground, So either LE was incompetent, indifferent, or already convinced it was a voluntary disappearance.

I agree. Clearly, LE was not thorough! One wonders where else they failed! If I recall correctly, they didn't look into that call (condo) until after Billy's mother inquired. Correct me if I'm wrong . . .

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I agree. Clearly, LE was not thorough! One wonders where else they failed! If I recall correctly, they didn't look into that call (condo) until after Billy's mother inquired. Correct me if I'm wrong . . .

My recollection is that Billy's mother called the condo owner herself. I know there is a link on this somewhere on one of our threads; I will try to dig it up and post it. Maura's cell phone was on a plan with Billy's and his mother noticed the number on the bill and called it--a year or so aftwr the disappearance.

 

[telemag]

I don't feel 100% confident that I am right about this, but the more I think about I feel that she was not only abducted, but by at least two men. I have always thought that someone put the rag in her tailpipe while she possibly got gas and then followed way behind her till her car stalled.

 

[scoops]

I don't feel 100% confident that I am right about this, but the more I think about I feel that she was not only abducted, but by at least two men. I have always thought that someone put the rag in her tailpipe while she possibly got gas and then followed way behind her till her car stalled.

There is almost no way that could've happened.

If some murderer's sabatoged her car while she got gas at the swiftwater station, she would've only been about a mile to the point she broke down. that means the murderer's would've had to known to wait about 25 minutes to even attempt to locate her because the school bus driver would've foiled their plans to abduct Maura.

If the murderer's stuck a rag in her tailpipe at a gas station before Maura turned into the white mountain national forest, there is no way she would've made it as far in as she did with the rag still in place and the car still running.

 

[McSpy]

There is almost no way that could've happened.

If some murderer's sabatoged her car while she got gas at the swiftwater station, she would've only been about a mile to the point she broke down. that means the murderer's would've had to known to wait about 25 minutes to even attempt to locate her because the school bus driver would've foiled their plans to abduct Maura.

If the murderer's stuck a rag in her tailpipe at a gas station before Maura turned into the white mountain national forest, there is no way she would've made it as far in as she did with the rag still in place and the car still running.

I have to agree with this. The rag was supposedly loosely placed in the pipe. It would have dislodged along the way or during the crash. I think that very sharp corner came up quickly and she didn't expect it to be sooo sharp. If her car stalled because of the rag, why didn't it stall on the straight portion of the road? It would be quite the coincidence if she stalled on a sharp curve, because of that rag. The perps would have been geniuses to come up with that timing! JMO

 

[telemag]

There is almost no way that could've happened.

If some murderer's sabatoged her car while she got gas at the swiftwater station, she would've only been about a mile to the point she broke down. that means the murderer's would've had to known to wait about 25 minutes to even attempt to locate her because the school bus driver would've foiled their plans to abduct Maura.

If the murderer's stuck a rag in her tailpipe at a gas station before Maura turned into the white mountain national forest, there is no way she would've made it as far in as she did with the rag still in place and the car still running.

Are there any other places where she could have stopped like a rest area? I'm not familiar with that area, but I often stop on long trips to get a coffee at a rest area or to use the rest room. Someone put that rag in her tail pipe and I'm not buying that she did it to stop the smoke from coming out her tail pipe. There would be no smoke coming out of her tail pipe after the crash obviously since that car would not be running and I posted pics a while back show the same model car and where the tail pipe is located. The rag would not have been visible to on coming traffic.

Also, how do we know that the perps did see the bus driver and just waited up the road a piece? Whether the rag had anything to do with her car stalling I feel there were prob more than one person involved.

 

[telemag]

I have to agree with this. The rag was supposedly loosely placed in the pipe. It would have dislodged along the way or during the crash. I think that very sharp corner came up quickly and she didn't expect it to be sooo sharp. If her car stalled because of the rag, why didn't it stall on the straight portion of the road? It would be quite the coincidence if she stalled on a sharp curve, because of that rag. The perps would have been geniuses to come up with that timing! JMO

Actually it would be more inclined to stall on a curve as most people let up on the gas which would let the engine idel more and decrease the RPM's. This would create more back pressure making the car more likely to stall.