NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[amber1]

Merry Christmas to Maura and those who love her.

 

[belimom]

As much as I do believe there is the possibility that she ran off and perished in the elements, I'm not sure that is what happened. If she were inebriated, she would not have been able to make it far in those conditions. I checked out a google map of the area, and looked 4-5 miles east on 112. I don't think she would have made it that far in her condition, in the cold, at night --- even as a runner herself. It just doesn't sit right with me.

I do believe Fred knew something else was up with her - something related to the phone call that she got at work before getting upset. JMHO

 

[McSpy]

As much as I do believe there is the possibility that she ran off and perished in the elements, I'm not sure that is what happened. If she were inebriated, she would not have been able to make it far in those conditions. I checked out a google map of the area, and looked 4-5 miles east on 112. I don't think she would have made it that far in her condition, in the cold, at night --- even as a runner herself. It just doesn't sit right with me.

I do believe Fred knew something else was up with her - something related to the phone call that she got at work before getting upset. JMHO

I don't think she was inebriated, but I do think she was very tired. I doubt she got much sleep the night before and she did have a little to drink on her drive up to NH. The bus driver, who spoke to her after her last car accident, didn't think she was intoxicated. Although, I agree that she could have succumbed to the elements if she stayed outdoors for hours on end. I do think she could have made it far up the road, but in my opinion, a lot depended on her state of mind as far as survival. It is also very dark in that area at night. She could have got lost and confused on top of it all.

 

[belimom]

I understand she had had the accident with her dad's vehicle in the week before she left, and now she faced a new accident. Plus whatever else was on her mind. But I'm not sure that would have caused her to go running miles off in the dark on a cold night in NH. It is possible and could very well be what happened, but I'm not there just yet. I can see a young teen -- a 15-yr-old -- run off like that. But not a college student.

 

[OldSteve]

I don't think she was inebriated, but I do think she was very tired. I doubt she got much sleep the night before and she did have a little to drink on her drive up to NH. The bus driver, who spoke to her after her last car accident, didn't think she was intoxicated. Although, I agree that she could have succumbed to the elements if she stayed outdoors for hours on end. I do think she could have made it far up the road, but in my opinion, a lot depended on her state of mind as far as survival. It is also very dark in that area at night. She could have got lost and confused on top of it all.

BBM - sorry to harp on my wondering if she had a flashlight as part of her emergency kit in the car, and if so, was the flashlight found? With a flashlight she could have made a run for it - as mentioned, wife and I would run at night doing that....

 

[McSpy]

BBM - sorry to harp on my wondering if she had a flashlight as part of her emergency kit in the car, and if so, was the flashlight found? With a flashlight she could have made a run for it - as mentioned, wife and I would run at night doing that....

This has always been one of my nagging questions about this case. I have not heard either way. A flashlight would have made a big difference. She could have used her cellphone to view things closely, but it wouldn't have been much use to see ahead. Without any light, I doubt she could have read signs. JMO

 

[OldSteve]

This has always been one of my nagging questions about this case. I have not heard either way. A flashlight would have made a big difference. She could have used her cellphone to view things closely, but it wouldn't have been much use to see ahead. Without any light, I doubt she could have read signs. JMO

I know you've felt like I do about the flashlight question - it's one I wish the James would have addressed in his investigation for his book. (James if you read this thread, can you shed some light on this (bit of pun, ha!)).

 

[Galbin]

I think her getting his voice mail may have been the topper to her stresses. She was obviously stressed and at a hard time in her life, just got in a second accident, and when she calls Billy and get his voicemail, she's further devestated. It's precipatating factors that made this point in her life a crisis. I really believe Maura was in a crisis due to the series of unfortunate events that occurred,and was trying to run away from all the stresses in her life. I think she wanted to reach out for help, but was scared to at the same time because she seems like the type of girl who is expected to have it together. Basically, there are people who lose it, and those who find it, and I think Maura was one of those who are expected to "find it", but when you feel like life's going by fast and you're losing control, you get further into feeling hopeless because you Aren't living up to expectations of those who care about you. I do believe Maura was not running away for good, I am sure she had every intention of coming back, just needed a break from life. I have studied crisis interventions and got my certification in them, and I am sad to say, from what I have read on this case, Maura was in a very deep crisis, and a lot of her actions before she vanished were silent cry for help, probably because she was nervous about reaching out to different linkages and unsure of coping skills. I do hope she is found, the thought of her father constantly looking for his daughter, walking the woods, breaks my heart!

The MM case haunts me more than any other case I have ever seen or read about. I watched some of the Disappeared episode yesterday and I got to thinking again that she was having a crisis, as you said.

I also agree with those posters who said that perhaps she was pregnant. She definitely looked fuller in the face in the home video than she did in all the other pics. I really wonder if she was either pregnant still or had had an abortion.

Her weight and height ratio also got me thinking eating disorder territory. She is literally only a few pounds away from being in the underweight BMI category and I wonder if she had hit a crisis point with an ED too. I had an ED and when it reached crisis point I became suicidal.

So I wonder now if Maura planned to drink herself into a stupor over the course of a few days in order to deal with all her stress, and maybe even to induce some type of abortion? I also wonder if the ED played into all of this?

I did use to think that maybe it was an abductor, but now I think she ran into the woods with her alcohol and was trying to escape her problems. I think she originally meant to take a few days away from it all on a mini vacation, but with the crash her plans changed and she spontaneously went into the woods.

Poor Maura.

 

[Galbin]

I know you've felt like I do about the flashlight question - it's one I wish the James would have addressed in his investigation for his book. (James if you read this thread, can you shed some light on this (bit of pun, ha!)).

Is the book out yet?

 

[OldSteve]

Is the book out yet?

Here's a link to James' Blog

Also I see he's posting his beliefs about what happened. Wow, I disagree with his theory...

IMO, she simply "won" the lottery of being at the wrong place, wrong time. It just like, despite overwhelming odds against winning a real lottery, someone always does, and it that person we read about.
Sadly this is the case for MM. God only knows how many young women have crashed on lonely roads, and of those, how many also had problems in their lives, BUT we never hear about them because luckily nothing bad happens.

 

[Galbin]

Here's a link to James' Blog

Also I see he's posting his beliefs about what happened. Wow, I disagree with his theory...

IMO, she simply "won" the lottery of being at the wrong place, wrong time. It just like, despite overwhelming odds against winning a real lottery, someone always does, and it that person we read about.
Sadly this is the case for MM. God only knows how many young women have crashed on lonely roads, and of those, how many also had problems in their lives, BUT we never hear about them because luckily nothing bad happens.

You think Maura died by suicide yes? I have read many posts here, but there are so many that it is impossible to keep up with them all.

So I have some questions if that is okay. I have read James's blog before, but he hadn't updated it in months until recently.

What do you or other people here think about the new car shopping trip? I am confused as to why so many people think she and Fred did not go car shopping that weekend.

What does James mean when he refers to a golden egg?

Why are people so suspicious of FM?

 

[amber1]

When doing a crisis intervention, there are 3 things they address first: when i the last time you ate? when is the last time you had something to drink (non-alcoholic), and how much sleep did you get? Lack of any of these 3 things, along with precipitating factors (school, possible pregnancy, 2 car accidents). I remember watching a tv show-not sure if it was Disappeared-where they interviewed her friends...she seemed close with them, I remember them saying theywould be there for each other no matter what.
But somethings are hard to talk about, such as being a young, pregnant college student. That would be information (especially as unsuspected) that would be hard to share with close friends, a boyfriend or family. It would be something to think about, because a career is hard to balance as it is, and a child certainly changes things...if she was. Also, some women who are pregnant get fatigue, morning sickness and poor vision and perception, especially in the first trimester...could this explain the sudden 2 accidents?

 

[McSpy]

You think Maura died by suicide yes? I have read many posts here, but there are so many that it is impossible to keep up with them all.

So I have some questions if that is okay. I have read James's blog before, but he hadn't updated it in months until recently.

What do you or other people here think about the new car shopping trip? I am confused as to why so many people think she and Fred did not go car shopping that weekend.

What does James mean when he refers to a golden egg?

Why are people so suspicious of FM?

BBM

I noticed this too, but I don't think he has anything to do with his daughter's disappearance. I do think he is trying to protect his daughter's reputation and/or privacy. IMO, he believes whatever happened to Maura happened after her accident in NH and all the rest doesn't matter (the past). He just wants to find her. I believe him. JMO

 

[McSpy]

I understand she had had the accident with her dad's vehicle in the week before she left, and now she faced a new accident. Plus whatever else was on her mind. But I'm not sure that would have caused her to go running miles off in the dark on a cold night in NH. It is possible and could very well be what happened, but I'm not there just yet. I can see a young teen -- a 15-yr-old -- run off like that. But not a college student.

I disagree. I think the second accident messed up her plans. If she was just planning a short stay in NH to sort things out, then the second accident may have sent her into a mental tail spin OR she was concerned with the splashed wine in her car (she was drinking). In other words, maybe she was afraid of a DUI. She could have accepted a ride and something bad happened OR she went into a mental tail spin and ran off down the road into the national forest thinking she was a major failure.

I still think it was possible she accepted a ride from an opportunist. She was needy at the time and may have accepted a ride against any misgivings. I think it was possible she took a chance and lost. JMO

 

[AnonymousD]

When doing a crisis intervention, there are 3 things they address first: when i the last time you ate? when is the last time you had something to drink (non-alcoholic), and how much sleep did you get? Lack of any of these 3 things, along with precipitating factors (school, possible pregnancy, 2 car accidents). I remember watching a tv show-not sure if it was Disappeared-where they interviewed her friends...she seemed close with them, I remember them saying theywould be there for each other no matter what.
But somethings are hard to talk about, such as being a young, pregnant college student. That would be information (especially as unsuspected) that would be hard to share with close friends, a boyfriend or family. It would be something to think about, because a career is hard to balance as it is, and a child certainly changes things...if she was. Also, some women who are pregnant get fatigue, morning sickness and poor vision and perception, especially in the first trimester...could this explain the sudden 2 accidents?

BBM

Yes, yes they are. And perhaps in her group of friends, this would be one of those things? (being pregnant, if she was)

I also think you have brought up a great point, the 2nd item BBM, about first trimester problems. Again, if she wound up pregnant.

Good thoughts!!

 

[AWOLNATION]

Its nice to see this thread alive and still going strong, seems to be a good core group of posters who stand by. I reluctantly come back from time to time to read any postings or updates, the reluctancy is due to we are almost 9 years into Maura's disappearance and still the only things we have are few actual facts and a ton of rumor/and or speculation/unconfirmed items. The theories have boiled down to a handful, Suicide/Runaway/Abduction/and or Dying from Exposer. After 9 years and so many links, it tends to feel like that game "telephone" where things dwindle down to something kinda near the facts. I feel that the episode of "Disappeared" was a good one, but I tend to think that the show itself has shaped the story into a certain mold and gotten away from other theories to be put forth...does anyone know what i mean? most of the "facts" have come from the episode, or off of someones blog, and what little has been in the news. I honestly feel theres alot more concrete fact out there that for obvious reasons LE and her family are keeping tight lipped on. With as popular as this case has been, its always struck me funny that other attempts at gaining knowledge havent been sought (at least that i can recall) I was born and raised in Maine, not too far from the border of NH/ME and was living there in 2004 when this took place. I keep up on current events, i read quite a bit of news, and i never once heard of this case until a little over a year ago when the episode of "Disappeared" was a rerun, not new. I find it odd, something this BIG and to my knowledge never saw or heard anything about it at the time. I live in Massachusetts now, and people whom I work with, that are native to the Amherst area (I work in Springfield, 20 minutes south) and no one here recalls hearing about this. Ive said it before in posts past, but i think there were some huge missed opportunities for getting Maura's face and info out there. Now, obviously I know that money is an issue, but there could have been billboards with her face on it, more local news stations carrying the news, more missing fliers put up in unrelated places. Who knows, someone could have been doing a good deed and gave her a lift somewhere and then forgot all about it. Years have gone by, memories fade, people pass on that may have had knowledge back in 2004 but never knew the stranger would be a woman that would go onto being missing for so many years. New Hampshire/Massachusetts/Maine/Vermont and even Canada are all hotspots in the dead of winter, so many tourists, so many people out and about.

Its hard to really pick a theory and stick with it, Ive flip flopped in my thoughts on it, but whose to say only one theory happened, maybe two happened together, or three, or none at all. A lot of people have put a lot of brain power into mapping things out the best they can, and I applaud that.

Fact is, this may never be solved, or maybe it will be, or maybe it has already been but its under wraps for some reason. After 9 years, theres only so much a family can say, and that may explain why theres been no family updates or insights. My biggest problem with the silence is, if youre gonna come full force and do a show like "Disappeared" or a talk show, then i would think you would be a little more forthcoming with even the smallest of detail that might ignite someones memory...not just stay silent. Like that creep who did those videos, and came here and posted, when those vids came out I read that the family dismissed the videos and told people to ignore them. How did they come to that conclusion? why make it sound so non threatening? its those things that make me wonder what is truly known.

Sorry for the ramble, its just it gets frustrating reading nothing new lol

 

[AWOLNATION]

You think Maura died by suicide yes? I have read many posts here, but there are so many that it is impossible to keep up with them all.

So I have some questions if that is okay. I have read James's blog before, but he hadn't updated it in months until recently.

What do you or other people here think about the new car shopping trip? I am confused as to why so many people think she and Fred did not go car shopping that weekend.

What does James mean when he refers to a golden egg?

Why are people so suspicious of FM?

BBM
For me, there are a lot of things that could be cleared up as far as the story of car shopping goes, bear with me:

1.If they had gone shopping, its a pretty good chance a dealer would have approached them, possibly gotten their names. Ive never heard of a confirmed story of them meeting anyone.

2. If there was a chance of a test drive, then a lisence would have been copied for safety precautions

3. If there was a big sum of money taken out in the form of cash, with the intent on paying with cash, then it opens the posibility that Maura may have had that money with her and not just the 300 dollars she took out of the ATM

4.The biggest issue I find confusing with the car shopping was that it was done on the weekend. Anyone from Mass knows the RMV isnt open on the wekkends and that Mass does not issue Temp Tags until you get the full registration done. You first get your insurer to fill out the RMV form along with your policy number, then you take it to the RMV where it is then processed, and then you recieve your registration and plates. I dont see someone buying a car on the weekend here in Massachusetts and driving it home that day on the weekend. Someone correct me if I wrong.

5. Was this whole car story something meaningless or did it come about to cover up something else? and if so, what was it covering? It could all just be meaningless and after 9 years people are grasping and disecting everything they can

IDK, just my thoughts

 

[amber1]

BBM

Yes, yes they are. And perhaps in her group of friends, this would be one of those things? (being pregnant, if she was)

I also think you have brought up a great point, the 2nd item BBM, about first trimester problems. Again, if she wound up pregnant.

Good thoughts!!

I think it'd be interesting to evaluate her driving record, because if she had a good record, and then two sudden accidents not too far from each other, maybe her being pregnant is one of the top theories about why she left to possibly sort things out. I know every pregnancy is different, but many of my friends who had kids have told me about their vision and perception depth changing throught the first trimester of pregnancy, affecting how they drive.

I also think their may be lots of new info. on Maura's case, but it seems to be underwraps, maybe for good reasons.

 

[Skigirl]

Like OldSteve, I think that the truth is likely to be something simple. No second car, no elaborate plan, no escape to another country. I think, like in so many murders and disappearances, the unlikely just happened to happen to her. She got in an accident that she didn't expect to get in. I think the evidence is pretty good that she was drinking the boxed wine that was splashed in the car. Once she spun out, she wanted to get her bearings and try to figure out what to do and/or didn't trust the looks of the first person who stopped to try to help her, and didn't want to go to a nearby house to call the police because she was worried about her blood alcohol level. Maybe she started walking or running and then realized that she couldn't realistically just hide and wait until she had sobered up, so she decided to accept a ride with the wrong person. Or, maybe someone hit her with a car and then panicked and hid her body. In any case, I believe she died that night, likely by foul play, but possibly due to exposure while trying to evade the police.

 

[McSpy]

Does it really matter if she was pregnant or not? She had enough on her mind with the cc fraud and crashing her dad's brand new car. If people think she was going up to NH for an abortion, then why was she searching for places to stay in Vermont on her computer? I guess I don't believe she was pregnant. . . . . I think she had issues bothering her, but not that. I think she changed her mind about Vermont, because she wasn't getting anywhere with any place to stay. She was heading to an area that she felt familiar with . . . . I think it was an on the fly decision. . . Just my opinion.