NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[theresad33]

Has anyone been following the Abigail Hernandez case? Abby recently disappeared from North Conway. A shoulder to shoulder search recently found remains from a missing hiker and another set of bone fragments that haven't been identifiers yet, or at least, not publicly. I know Maura disappeared a bit away from North Conway, but certainly close enough that it is making me wonder.

You're not the only one, when I heard about the bone fragments found Maura was the first person to come to mind. Logically I know it's a long shot .

 

[Captain_Khan]

Thank you for the warm welcome, OldSteve! I've been following the case for ages, and finally feel ready to discuss a few ideas of my own...

So, here's my other crackpot theory - this time about the 'rag' found in the exhaust.
What is a rag? You don't go into a shop to buy a 'rag'. It usually means an old piece of material like a shirt or a cloth that has reached a point that means it can't be used for its original purpose any more. We can assume Maura's 'rag' was a similar item.

How did the family know what item Maura was using as a rag? I don't know about everyone, but I think my family would have struggled to identify exactly what was in my boot, especially after I have been at university for a while. A random piece of cloth would be very hard to confirm as having being from her roadside kit.

This leads me to believe the item identified as a rag was distinctive in some way. Maybe it wasn’t a ‘rag’ at all, but an item of clothing, a scarf or similar.
Does this have any significance? Probably not. But might be worth it to set the scene for us a little bit.

I think by now everyone agrees that the ‘advice’ FM gave to Maura regarding putting a rag in the exhaust was terrible. At best, the rag would harmlessly blow out, and at worst it would cause the car to stall or not even start.
I don’t think the rag was put there by someone out to harm Maura. It’s such a risky way to try to get someone to break down, and the perp would need access to her boot and do this without her noticing. Unlikely.

What I think happened is that Maura put it there herself after the accident. Why? Two reasons spring to mind. One, which makes FM’s advice make a lot more sense, is that she put it there so the car could not be stolen while she was away from it. Maybe she was worried someone might see the car by itself on the roadside and attempt to take it. FM’s advice may have been as simple as “If your old car breaks down on the side of the road and you go to get help, stick this rag in her exhaust. That’ll make it a lot harder for someone to steal her while you’re gone.”. This does not fit with the suggestion he told her to put the rag in if the car was smoking, but maybe that isn’t exactly how the ‘advice’ was relayed anyway.

Two, Maura wanted to hide the rag in there for some reason. Why would she want to do that? I happen to think the crack in the windshield came from something Maura was holding (most likely a bottle) and not her head. Was there any forensics ever carried out on this rag? I wonder if it was used to mop up something that was spilled in the crash – alcohol, maybe? Not wanting to take a damp item with her, nor discard a distinctive item (see above), maybe she hid in it a place where she hoped it would dry out – one of the very few warm places that would be available to her right then would be the exhaust.

I know this is probably not what happened. But I am trying to imagine myself in her situation, and avoiding a DUI would be high on her priorities, I think.

 

[OldSteve]

I see that James has more info on his blog about the bone fragments, appears unlikely they are MM's. Good job James on contacting the New Hampshire Department of Fish and Game.

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

 

[OldSteve]

Thank you for the warm welcome, OldSteve! I've been following the case for ages, and finally feel ready to discuss a few ideas of my own...

So, here's my other crackpot theory - this time about the 'rag' found in the exhaust.
What is a rag? You don't go into a shop to buy a 'rag'. It usually means an old piece of material like a shirt or a cloth that has reached a point that means it can't be used for its original purpose any more. We can assume Maura's 'rag' was a similar item.

How did the family know what item Maura was using as a rag? I don't know about everyone, but I think my family would have struggled to identify exactly what was in my boot, especially after I have been at university for a while. A random piece of cloth would be very hard to confirm as having being from her roadside kit.

This leads me to believe the item identified as a rag was distinctive in some way. Maybe it wasn’t a ‘rag’ at all, but an item of clothing, a scarf or similar.
Does this have any significance? Probably not. But might be worth it to set the scene for us a little bit.

I think by now everyone agrees that the ‘advice’ FM gave to Maura regarding putting a rag in the exhaust was terrible. At best, the rag would harmlessly blow out, and at worst it would cause the car to stall or not even start.
I don’t think the rag was put there by someone out to harm Maura. It’s such a risky way to try to get someone to break down, and the perp would need access to her boot and do this without her noticing. Unlikely.

What I think happened is that Maura put it there herself after the accident. Why? Two reasons spring to mind. One, which makes FM’s advice make a lot more sense, is that she put it there so the car could not be stolen while she was away from it. Maybe she was worried someone might see the car by itself on the roadside and attempt to take it. FM’s advice may have been as simple as “If your old car breaks down on the side of the road and you go to get help, stick this rag in her exhaust. That’ll make it a lot harder for someone to steal her while you’re gone.”. This does not fit with the suggestion he told her to put the rag in if the car was smoking, but maybe that isn’t exactly how the ‘advice’ was relayed anyway.

Two, Maura wanted to hide the rag in there for some reason. Why would she want to do that? I happen to think the crack in the windshield came from something Maura was holding (most likely a bottle) and not her head. Was there any forensics ever carried out on this rag? I wonder if it was used to mop up something that was spilled in the crash – alcohol, maybe? Not wanting to take a damp item with her, nor discard a distinctive item (see above), maybe she hid in it a place where she hoped it would dry out – one of the very few warm places that would be available to her right then would be the exhaust.

I know this is probably not what happened. But I am trying to imagine myself in her situation, and avoiding a DUI would be high on her priorities, I think.

First, all theories are always welcome, and when it comes to crackpot theories, well, I hold some honors there :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Your line of thinking about the rag being placed in the TP by MM to hide the rag it after it was used to mop up something - interesting! Don't think anyone has mentioned that!

What if she were bleeding and didn't want any blood to be found? - since she did not want to raise concern. In other words, she's looking to make a getaway without being followed. This idea actually plays along with those who believed she was on a mission to end it all...

 

[Captain_Khan]

Your line of thinking about the rag being placed in the TP by MM to hide the rag it after it was used to mop up something - interesting! Don't think anyone has mentioned that!

What if she were bleeding and didn't want any blood to be found? - since she did not want to raise concern. In other words, she's looking to make a getaway without being followed. This idea actually plays along with those who believed she was on a mission to end it all...

Yes, blood or alcohol seem like the two most likely things to me.

Just thought I'd give a quick round up of my personal beliefs:

• I think Maura did not intend to kill herself.
• I think Maura may have planned to drop out of UMass
• I think Maura needed to do something out of town - and it had to be out of town, too.
• I think something very bad or distressing happened to Maura at UMass that her father knows about.

I'm not convinced Maura planned to commit suicide - especially not without a note. Drinking yourself to death in the wilderness is unlikely to be the most sensible way a nurse could imagine to end her pain.

Some might argue that the art she removed from her walls or the boxes of her things packed indicated that she was planning to die, but I'm not convinced of that either. I think she planned to go home with FM when he came back to return the car he had rented. Possibly, she did not plan to continue her course at UMass after her return.

I would also point to the fact that she emptied her bank account, yet only spent around $40 as evidence that she did not plan to die. I think she needed to do something important - something that could justify taking all of her money (in cash - nice and anonymous). I also think this suggests she wasn't planning to continue her studies - she wasn't planning on using that money for student life for the long-term, just whatever short-term event she needed it for.

Burlington, Vermot has a nursing school, part of the University of Vermont. Maura had printed directions to Burlington and left them in her car. Maybe she planned to start training again there? Pure speculation, of course. I don't think she was taking a very good route to get to Burlington on that fateful night, so I don't think she was headed there - but the printed directions perhaps showed that she either intended to visit, or possibly already had. I have a few old directions printed in my car from trips several weeks ago...

 

[Masterj]

First, all theories are always welcome, and when it comes to crackpot theories, well, I hold some honors there :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Your line of thinking about the rag being placed in the TP by MM to hide the rag it after it was used to mop up something - interesting! Don't think anyone has mentioned that!

What if she were bleeding and didn't want any blood to be found? - since she did not want to raise concern. In other words, she's looking to make a getaway without being followed. This idea actually plays along with those who believed she was on a mission to end it all...

I swear I remember that it was a clean rag. Does anyone else remember reading that? IIRC, someone had proposed a theory that the rag was stuck there by someone who encountered her and wanted to disable her vehicle. But that was proved incorrect because the rag was clean. Hmmm, off to search.

 

[Kdube]

There was a skull found in Vermont they said last year that could belong to Maura. Has anybody heard the ID on that?

 

[Captain_Khan]

I swear I remember that it was a clean rag. Does anyone else remember reading that? IIRC, someone had proposed a theory that the rag was stuck there by someone who encountered her and wanted to disable her vehicle. But that was proved incorrect because the rag was clean. Hmmm, off to search.

Great, yes - didn't realize that it being clean would also add weight to it not having been in the car while it ran. Good thinking.

As I mentioned before, I really don't think it was put there by someone else. Maura must have put it there herself. The fact her father mentioned that terrible advice is what gets me... He knows why that rag was there.

While I lay awake in the night and thought about this case in the most abstract way I could, I wondered if there is any chance it was a sort of message. 'I listened to you, Dad'. 'I'm doing what you told me to, Dad'. That sort of thing. I don't know. It just keeps playing on my mind that FM's advice was utterly useless, yet he claims that's what he said so we should forget about the whole tailpipe business. Curious.

 

[BillNH]

I get the Feeling that the comment by Fred was an attempt to quash any talk about the rag being a suicide attempt to keep a focus on the "local dirtbag" theory. Fred's initial statements were that he thought MM went to NH to harm herself. The dirtbag theory kept everyone looking a lot longer and harder tha they would have if it was a suicide trip. JMO of course, but it fits well wit what we know.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Thank you for the warm welcome, OldSteve! I've been following the case for ages, and finally feel ready to discuss a few ideas of my own...

So, here's my other crackpot theory - this time about the 'rag' found in the exhaust.

What I think happened is that Maura put it there herself after the accident. Why? Two reasons spring to mind. One, which makes FM’s advice make a lot more sense, is that she put it there so the car could not be stolen while she was away from it. Maybe she was worried someone might see the car by itself on the roadside and attempt to take it. FM’s advice may have been as simple as “If your old car breaks down on the side of the road and you go to get help, stick this rag in her exhaust. That’ll make it a lot harder for someone to steal her while you’re gone.”. This does not fit with the suggestion he told her to put the rag in if the car was smoking, but maybe that isn’t exactly how the ‘advice’ was relayed anyway.

I know this is probably not what happened. But I am trying to imagine myself in her situation, and avoiding a DUI would be high on her priorities, I think.

Well, I'm glad you decided to finally jump in and I can tell you one thing, your theories by no means would fall into the category of being "crackpot"..lol..

ITA with you most of all on the issue of avoiding a DUI/LE involvement, period IMO was Maura's absolute first and foremost priority..and IMO it was such a priority that it overshadowed every other issue that was at hand that night on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd, including her very own safety..jmo, tho..

I honestly believe that this was of such priority and concern for Maura that AT THAT TIME she felt it was easily worth any risk for her to immediately flee the scene of that accident AT ALL COSTS.. IMO she could not, nor did she ever even think past that very immediate point in time of her avoiding trouble w/LE regarding yet another traffic accident, along with the more critical issue of her IMO very likely being under the influence to some degree(to be clear I've never attempted to paint her as having been stumbling drunk, IMO it honestly is actually irrelevant as to the degree of intoxication.. The issue starts/stops with there being alcohol open/and partaken in at/around the time of the single car accident), with an open container to boot..all very serious and detrimentinal consequences that would come with Maura's being "caught" that night..

IMO this issue by far took absolute precedence at that point in time when Maura found herself in this very, very unfortunate situation, to say the least..and like I said it was as if everything else just fell by the wayside regarding any other priorities, period(even the most basic such as one's very own safety/well being).. At that moment in time Nothing else mattered, IMO except her finding an immediate remedy to avoid detection/trouble wrt LE and her single car accident.. IMO she knew damn well that time was of the essence and every second counted against her likelihood of escaping the wrath that she knew would come with LE arriving on the scene of the accident..

As I'd mentioned in an earlier post it is exactly this that led to Maura's feeling it was top priority to attempt to remove all the liquor from the scene of the accident..therefor IMO is very likely the reason the decision was made to grab those bottles of liquor and take them with her as she fled the scene..Regarding every other item of Maura's left behind, including the car, itself, I totally believe that her intent was absolutely at some point to go back and retrieve her car AND belongings.. IMO these type of conscious, rational thought processes WERE NOT AT ALL taking place when Maura was attempting to as hastily, as humanly possibly to get the hell outta dodge BEFORE LE or anyone else for that matter, arrived on the scene.. IMO honestly that's as far as this young woman's mind was thinking regarding the future, even the very, near future..Imo she just was not thinking past the immediate problem at hand, and how to remedy it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, and not to deal with, or even think about what the future held as far as repercussions and consequences of those actions she was taking to flee the scene, that night..

I'm fairly near Maura in age(I'm 5yrs older) and I honestly find her actions/behaviors to not be "normal", but definitely not be "abnormal" either.. Let's see if I can explain a little better what I mean.. Its just that I see Maura as having been on a pretty negative, downward path wrt especially those last couple of years of her life.. I by no means am attempting to "diagnose" Maura, or even attempt to say I know why she was making the poor choices/decisions that she was.. Its more so that I've just seen it with my own two eyes, and much more than just once.. When for whatever reasons a young person begins to go down a path in life that will inevitably bring about ONLY heartache, hard times, and negative consequences..The young person may be bright as hell, have a heart of gold, and would give anyone the shirt off their back..yet, still they can be making poor choices/decisions repeatedly that just continue to bring about only more problems..and they still continue down that path, and with each bad decision made the rate of speed accelerates, faster and faster into that downward spiral..

IMO I see Maura as having been on a similar path, facing these similar repeated negative consequences, along with more heartache, and this only further fueling the downward spiral that Maura's life seemed to be taking.. Once inside that vacuum of negative actions/behaviors further breeding only more negative outcomes..well, I've seen many young people, without help, literally just being consumed in this death spiral their life feels it has now reached past the point of no return..they just keep making the wrong/bad choice with every negative obstacle/hurdle that they continue to be faced with(all due to repeated negative actions/behaviors on their part)..

Anyhow, now that I've rambled on into a ridiculously long post:blushing:.. My point is simply that for whatever reasons its not difficult for me to see this from possibly the perspective that Maura was seeing this as..and that I can so, so, so very, very easily believe and see how Maura ended up in this desperate situation that night, that IMO unfortunately ended up costing her, her entire life .. IMO I can see possibly how she came to that point in time, that night, that culminated in that single car accident, and from that crescendo point it was very literally like boom, boom, boom that from the car accident, the choice made to flee, leading to IMO her hopping in a strangers car..from there..it was all over for Maura, IMO..IMO that long, arduous road that Maura's life had been on..it all quickly came to an end in those last, spur of the moment choices/decisions that she made on that night that very literally sealed her fate and IMO directly led to losing her life at some point..all as a result of those last choices made...choices that, IMO, were likely made within no more than a blink of an eye..

All jmo, tho and my apologies for droning on into one of my grossly over worded posts.. Just my thoughts/theories..nothing more, nothing less..

 

[Captain_Khan]

Great posts, and thanks again for being so welcoming.

While I am absolutely intrigued by what led to the crash on Route 112, I also have my beliefs about what went through Maura's mind after the event.

Personally, I think it went down like this:

• She had been drinking, and desperately wanted to avoid a DUI
• If the above is true, she had two options - leave and sober up, or leave and drink (in order to 'mask' the fact she had been drinking earlier)
• Route 112 has a lot of rest areas and picnic areas off of the road.
• Maura was a regular hiker, and would be well aware of hiking culture.
• She decided to grab some alcohol and, using her long-distance skills, jog to a camping or resting area.
• She could then rest and/or drink, hopefully in the company of pleasant hiking-types that she would feel at home with.

That's my theory. She maybe hoped to find some fellow hiking enthusiasts, campers or sightseers, then enjoy a drink in their company, thereby hiding the fact she had been drunk driving. Obviously, that's not exactly what happened.

Something else also struck me about the accident. The airbags were deployed. Airbag related injuries can be pretty nasty, and aren't all that rare, either. Don't know if that adds anything to the story, but Maura may have been both emotionally and physically compromised when she vanished.

 

[goldiegirl]

Great posts, and thanks again for being so welcoming.

While I am absolutely intrigued by what led to the crash on Route 112, I also have my beliefs about what went through Maura's mind after the event.

Personally, I think it went down like this:

• She had been drinking, and desperately wanted to avoid a DUI
• If the above is true, she had two options - leave and sober up, or leave and drink (in order to 'mask' the fact she had been drinking earlier)

• 
  
  Respectfully snipped by me : )
  
  Not that it helps much to figure things out in the grand scheme of things, but regarding Maura's mindset after the wreck:
  
  My husband is an alcoholic. I think sometimes people use that word to mean different things. For him it started because he was bipolar, and his use of alcohol as a coping mechanism came from the depressive stages and turned extreme because of his extreme moods. BUT, to compound that, he is now physically addicted, due to a biological predisposition to alcoholism.
  
  I don't know if Maura was a "problem drinker" or a literal alcoholic. But I know for sure what my husband would have done in that moment. He would have drank more. No question.
  
  If she did, that still doesn't solve what happened to her. She could have drank to the point of death (either deliberately or accidentally), or a creep could have found her impaired and taken advantage of her. Who knows.
  
  Also, if Maura was literally an alcoholic the way my husband is - I've talked about this before and don't want to belabor the point - but I just wanted to point out that there's not really such a clear distinction between "I am drinking to escape my emotions" and "I am drinking to die." Especially not in those stressful moments. It's just not that cut and dried. Many times he's almost drunk himself to death, but I don't even think he knows whether or not it was on purpose.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Great posts, and thanks again for being so welcoming.

While I am absolutely intrigued by what led to the crash on Route 112, I also have my beliefs about what went through Maura's mind after the event.

Personally, I think it went down like this:

• She had been drinking, and desperately wanted to avoid a DUI
• If the above is true, she had two options - leave and sober up, or leave and drink (in order to 'mask' the fact she had been drinking earlier)
• Route 112 has a lot of rest areas and picnic areas off of the road.
• Maura was a regular hiker, and would be well aware of hiking culture.
• She decided to grab some alcohol and, using her long-distance skills, jog to a camping or resting area.
• She could then rest and/or drink, hopefully in the company of pleasant hiking-types that she would feel at home with.

That's my theory. She maybe hoped to find some fellow hiking enthusiasts, campers or sightseers, then enjoy a drink in their company, thereby hiding the fact she had been drunk driving. Obviously, that's not exactly what happened.

Something else also struck me about the accident. The airbags were deployed. Airbag related injuries can be pretty nasty, and aren't all that rare, either. Don't know if that adds anything to the story, but Maura may have been both emotionally and physically compromised when she vanished.

Above BBM for focus..

While I know this has been discussed throughout the near decade that's passed since her disappearance.. It is however a factor that I also am of the opinion is a very strong likelihood of having happened that night, in the accident, when the airbags deployed.. As Capt. Khan says, there is definitely no shortage of injuries that occur when airbags deploy in a car accident(many times an extremely minor accident).. I'd say many of us likely have either had this experience first hand, or at least know someone who suffered some degree of injury, just strictly from the air bag deployment in their vehicle..Quite common, IMO..

So, in further elaborating on this issue I would not at all be surprised if Maura, too had suffered some degree of physical injury, if even from just the airbag deployment in her Saturn.. In my mind this has always been an equal contributor to Maura's "hazy state of mind" that I repeatedly refer to when theorizing on what possibly led to those last decisions/choices that were made immediately following her single car accident.

IMO the "hazy state of mind" was a direct result of likely several factors.. One, of course being any of the alcohol that she had consumed that evening... Two, being the car accident itself, NOT EVEN the physical injuries, but rather the emotional state of mind that most are left in, immediately following any type of traffic accident, even a very minor one.. Three, being what ImO is at he very least the physical toll taken on the human body when impacting with deployed airbags...again even if there were no actual "injuries", per se, there still is the rattled jolt taken upon impact of the upper torso/neck/head when colliding with the air bag..

IMO just those two or three factors listed above, IMO, are way more than enough to have rendered Maura's mindset in a very hazy, unclear, fuzzy state, that IMO are huge pieces of the puzzle in better setting the scene, so to speak, for how those moments following the single car accident played out .. IMO when truly taking into account the very realistic effects of JUST THE CAR ACCIDENT, ALONE(and that is NOT even taking into acct the DUI issue, nor the multiple car/traffic accidents she'd had in the couple days, nor does it take into account the very problematic months that led up to that night, nor any of the other difficulties and issues that Maura was/and had been facing in those preceding months), JUST THE CAR ACCIDENT, ALONE.. IMO I am honestly not at all surprised by the frantic decision making that immediately followed.. Which IMO directly led to how it is that Maura's life was lost, IMO..(again as always IMO an abduction/murder)..

 

[Captain_Khan]

I'd say many of us likely have either had this experience first hand, or at least know someone who suffered some degree of injury, just strictly from the air bag deployment in their vehicle..Quite common, IMO..

Yes. I know somebody who broke both wrists and bruised their ribs in an accident in which their airbag deployed. Don't get me wrong, it would have been a lot worse without the airbag, but he was still quite damaged.

Did Maura suffer concussion? SmoothOperator, you mention she had a 'hazy' state of mind...

Symptoms of concussion can be mild to severe and in some cases emergency treatment may be needed.
The most common symptoms of concussion are:
headache
dizziness
nausea
loss of balance
confusion, such as being unaware of your surroundings
feeling stunned or dazed
disturbances with vision, such as double vision or seeing 'stars' or flashing lights
difficulties with memory (see below)
Difficulties with memory can take one of two forms, or possibly both forms:
retrograde amnesia – where you are unable to remember events that occurred before the concussion happened (this usually only affects the minutes immediately leading up to the concussion)
anterograde amnesia – where you are unable to remember any new information or events after the concussion happened
Both retrograde and anterograde amnesia usually improve within a few hours.
- http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Concussion/Pages/Symptoms.aspx

That retrograde amnesia must be pretty scary. It would feel like she suddenly woke up behind the wheel of her crashed car, with no idea how she got there...

This is maybe disproved by the bus driver who (if I remember correctly) said she didn't appear disorientated or confused.

Personally, I don't think Maura was an alcoholic. She was unquestionably a drinker, and I think she was drunk at the time of the accident, but I don't believe she had been alcohol-dependent or anything like that. A friend would have mentioned her drinking habits to the police if they were beyond normal limits for a student, I think. I believe she was drinking at the time of the accident, and probably the night before - binge-drinking a couple of nights a week isn't exactly unusual for university students.

Something just struck me - hair of the dog. Does anyone still believe drinking can help cure a hangover these days? If Maura had been drinking a lot the night before (the night she crashed her father's car), did she still feel rotten the next day? Was she drinking while driving to try to ease her pain?

 

[McSpy]

Well, I'm glad you decided to finally jump in and I can tell you one thing, your theories by no means would fall into the category of being "crackpot"..lol..

ITA with you most of all on the issue of avoiding a DUI/LE involvement, period IMO was Maura's absolute first and foremost priority..and IMO it was such a priority that it overshadowed every other issue that was at hand that night on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd, including her very own safety..jmo, tho..

I honestly believe that this was of such priority and concern for Maura that AT THAT TIME she felt it was easily worth any risk for her to immediately flee the scene of that accident AT ALL COSTS.. IMO she could not, nor did she ever even think past that very immediate point in time of her avoiding trouble w/LE regarding yet another traffic accident, along with the more critical issue of her IMO very likely being under the influence to some degree(to be clear I've never attempted to paint her as having been stumbling drunk, IMO it honestly is actually irrelevant as to the degree of intoxication.. The issue starts/stops with there being alcohol open/and partaken in at/around the time of the single car accident), with an open container to boot..all very serious and detrimentinal consequences that would come with Maura's being "caught" that night..

IMO this issue by far took absolute precedence at that point in time when Maura found herself in this very, very unfortunate situation, to say the least..and like I said it was as if everything else just fell by the wayside regarding any other priorities, period(even the most basic such as one's very own safety/well being).. At that moment in time Nothing else mattered, IMO except her finding an immediate remedy to avoid detection/trouble wrt LE and her single car accident.. IMO she knew damn well that time was of the essence and every second counted against her likelihood of escaping the wrath that she knew would come with LE arriving on the scene of the accident..

As I'd mentioned in an earlier post it is exactly this that led to Maura's feeling it was top priority to attempt to remove all the liquor from the scene of the accident..therefor IMO is very likely the reason the decision was made to grab those bottles of liquor and take them with her as she fled the scene..Regarding every other item of Maura's left behind, including the car, itself, I totally believe that her intent was absolutely at some point to go back and retrieve her car AND belongings.. IMO these type of conscious, rational thought processes WERE NOT AT ALL taking place when Maura was attempting to as hastily, as humanly possibly to get the hell outta dodge BEFORE LE or anyone else for that matter, arrived on the scene.. IMO honestly that's as far as this young woman's mind was thinking regarding the future, even the very, near future..Imo she just was not thinking past the immediate problem at hand, and how to remedy it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, and not to deal with, or even think about what the future held as far as repercussions and consequences of those actions she was taking to flee the scene, that night..

I'm fairly near Maura in age(I'm 5yrs older) and I honestly find her actions/behaviors to not be "normal", but definitely not be "abnormal" either.. Let's see if I can explain a little better what I mean.. Its just that I see Maura as having been on a pretty negative, downward path wrt especially those last couple of years of her life.. I by no means am attempting to "diagnose" Maura, or even attempt to say I know why she was making the poor choices/decisions that she was.. Its more so that I've just seen it with my own two eyes, and much more than just once.. When for whatever reasons a young person begins to go down a path in life that will inevitably bring about ONLY heartache, hard times, and negative consequences..The young person may be bright as hell, have a heart of gold, and would give anyone the shirt off their back..yet, still they can be making poor choices/decisions repeatedly that just continue to bring about only more problems..and they still continue down that path, and with each bad decision made the rate of speed accelerates, faster and faster into that downward spiral..

IMO I see Maura as having been on a similar path, facing these similar repeated negative consequences, along with more heartache, and this only further fueling the downward spiral that Maura's life seemed to be taking.. Once inside that vacuum of negative actions/behaviors further breeding only more negative outcomes..well, I've seen many young people, without help, literally just being consumed in this death spiral their life feels it has now reached past the point of no return..they just keep making the wrong/bad choice with every negative obstacle/hurdle that they continue to be faced with(all due to repeated negative actions/behaviors on their part)..

Anyhow, now that I've rambled on into a ridiculously long post:blushing:.. My point is simply that for whatever reasons its not difficult for me to see this from possibly the perspective that Maura was seeing this as..and that I can so, so, so very, very easily believe and see how Maura ended up in this desperate situation that night, that IMO unfortunately ended up costing her, her entire life .. IMO I can see possibly how she came to that point in time, that night, that culminated in that single car accident, and from that crescendo point it was very literally like boom, boom, boom that from the car accident, the choice made to flee, leading to IMO her hopping in a strangers car..from there..it was all over for Maura, IMO..IMO that long, arduous road that Maura's life had been on..it all quickly came to an end in those last, spur of the moment choices/decisions that she made on that night that very literally sealed her fate and IMO directly led to losing her life at some point..all as a result of those last choices made...choices that, IMO, were likely made within no more than a blink of an eye..

All jmo, tho and my apologies for droning on into one of my grossly over worded posts.. Just my thoughts/theories..nothing more, nothing less..

You said it well. I also agree she was feeling very emotional and that she was consumed with her failures. Her impulsive decisions in regards to her mindset back then are what led her to where we are today, unfortunately.

 

[McSpy]

Respectfully snipped by me : )

Not that it helps much to figure things out in the grand scheme of things, but regarding Maura's mindset after the wreck:

My husband is an alcoholic. I think sometimes people use that word to mean different things. For him it started because he was bipolar, and his use of alcohol as a coping mechanism came from the depressive stages and turned extreme because of his extreme moods. BUT, to compound that, he is now physically addicted, due to a biological predisposition to alcoholism.

I don't know if Maura was a "problem drinker" or a literal alcoholic. But I know for sure what my husband would have done in that moment. He would have drank more. No question.

If she did, that still doesn't solve what happened to her. She could have drank to the point of death (either deliberately or accidentally), or a creep could have found her impaired and taken advantage of her. Who knows.

Also, if Maura was literally an alcoholic the way my husband is - I've talked about this before and don't want to belabor the point - but I just wanted to point out that there's not really such a clear distinction between "I am drinking to escape my emotions" and "I am drinking to die." Especially not in those stressful moments. It's just not that cut and dried. Many times he's almost drunk himself to death, but I don't even think he knows whether or not it was on purpose.

Sometimes I think people can be momentarily suicidal, but not planning a suicide. For example, a guy gets upset about a girlfriend cheating and speeds off in his car at 60 mph in a 25 mph zone. He doesn't give a hoot what happens at that moment even if there is a huge possibility he could lose control, hit a tree and get killed.

Maybe it's possible addicts of all kinds put aside thoughts of demise, because they are in the moment.

Just a thought.

 

[McSpy]

Great posts, and thanks again for being so welcoming.

While I am absolutely intrigued by what led to the crash on Route 112, I also have my beliefs about what went through Maura's mind after the event.

Personally, I think it went down like this:

• She had been drinking, and desperately wanted to avoid a DUI
• If the above is true, she had two options - leave and sober up, or leave and drink (in order to 'mask' the fact she had been drinking earlier)
• Route 112 has a lot of rest areas and picnic areas off of the road.
• Maura was a regular hiker, and would be well aware of hiking culture.
• She decided to grab some alcohol and, using her long-distance skills, jog to a camping or resting area.
• She could then rest and/or drink, hopefully in the company of pleasant hiking-types that she would feel at home with.

That's my theory. She maybe hoped to find some fellow hiking enthusiasts, campers or sightseers, then enjoy a drink in their company, thereby hiding the fact she had been drunk driving. Obviously, that's not exactly what happened.

Something else also struck me about the accident. The airbags were deployed. Airbag related injuries can be pretty nasty, and aren't all that rare, either. Don't know if that adds anything to the story, but Maura may have been both emotionally and physically compromised when she vanished.

I don't think Maura was dressed properly for hiking. It was winter and I believe she was only wearing common street clothes and shoes. IMO, her shoes alone were inadequate for the winter conditions on a trail. They were probably okay for walking down the road though. She also left her gloves in the car.

 

[belimom]

In reading over the recent e-mails, I've decided (again) that a few folks close to Maura know more than they are letting on. Namely, her father, her boyfriend, and/or at least a friend or two. I have a couple of ideas about what may have been happening, and I'm sure most of us have the same thoughts running through our minds.

By the way, was the phone call she received at work that made her so upset - does anyone know if that was via landline or mobile? If mobile, then I'm sure - or I hope - that LE knows who made that call to her.

 

[CircuitGuy]

One thing that bugs me is she was going OUT of town. If I remember correctly her scent was lost right in front of the bus drivers house, right? She actually crashed in the most populated area on that road and the last grouping of houses for miles!!!! From where her car crashed to where she walked is actually further away from civilization not closer.

I know there is a youtube video showing the area. Have you all seen it? I used to drive this road numerous times a day everyday. Still do when I go to visit my family every few weeks, I think of her every time I do too.

Was she still going north? She may have not known where the next town was, she may have just kept going north if she was of a mindset to escape her problems to the north country.

 

[CircuitGuy]

For the record, investigators don't know what the rag was all about, but the only logical thing they could come up with was that it was used in a make-shift spur of the moment suicide attempt on scene that didn't go as planned or didn't work.

Is there a method of suicide involving obstructing the tail pipe?? I've never heard of such a thing. The exhaust is toxic, so someone trying to commit suicide would want to breathe in that gas, not block it.

I actually haven't heard of anyone ever intentionally obstructing a tailpipe outside of a mechanic testing for leaks. I've heard of people opening up the exhaust so there's less resistance during the exhaust strokes. If noise weren't an issue you'd want it wide open with no muffler. Why on earth would someone ever obstruct the exhaust!?

None of the hypotheses make sense:

• Reduce engine smoking - Has anyone heard of this as even a folkloric remedy for car trouble?
• Suicide - Has anyone heard of a suicide method involving obstructing a tailpipe?
• Hiding evidence - If someone was trying to hide blood or alcohol, why not leave it out in the open? If they wanted the evidence to dry, why not spread it out over the engine block? They could have taken it anywhere away from the scene where it would be much less likely to be found.
• Someone intentionally disabling the car - I suspect the car would have had problems very quickly and not gotten far from the restaurant. If the pipe was only partially obstructed and the car still ran, she could have returned with the car to a populated area.
• Someone trying to throw off investigators - I can't imagine someone who committed a crime thinking, "I'll put a cloth up her car's tailpipe to throw them off." They didn't leave any other evidence of a crime, so they didn't need to leave evidence on purpose.

The weirdest thing about the rag was, according to posts on this board, her father didn't seem concerned and said that a rag in the tailpipe was normal. What? It sounds so bizarre. To me it's the one clue that makes this look like foul play.

Everything else seems normal (at least in Wisconsin):

• Upsetting phone calls
• Going to the north woods to think things through
• Crashing on an icy road
• Drinking and driving
• Fleeing the scene of an accident involving drinking
• Not thinking through carefully which items to take/leave, i.e. forgetting something important while taking other items out of habit with no intention of using it

I have done or known someone who foolishly did almost all of those things. I can't imagine stuffing a rag in a tailpipe, even if there was some bizarre problem with the choke not engaging. That's the one element that makes no sense.