AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #2

[MsBetsy]

We know the exact time that they were at the ice cream shop, and witnesses described the suspect and his vehicle. That suggests that someone saw the suspect with the child at his red van. 4:20 is the time that has been given as the time of abduction.

Of course, we can imagine that this information is wrong, and speculate that no one really knows anything about the time of abduction.

I'm pretty sure LE would have verified the timeline.
As far as I can tell they had no reason to not believe the mother's account of how long they were there. Imo

 

[zecats]

Hmmmm. If the witness wasn't real close how could they see the acne?????? Give such a vivid discription??????

Let's just suppose the suspect was potentially there well ahead of Dulce and her family, and was close enough to the basketball players at one time for one or more of them to describe him later, after being interviewed about the incident. JMO.

 

[otto]

Apparently it was ten minutes after they were let out of the car that the three year old came back crying. It probably was not much longer than that as he was still eating his ice cream cone when she was abducted.
The time could have also have been verified by the people who were on the courts playing basketball. Imo

"While Alavez Perez spoke with her sister about the little girl’s homework in the parking lot, Dulce and Manuel ran toward the swings on the playground about 30 yards away. They were out of sight for less than three minutes when Manuel ran back, crying and pointing to a spot near park buildings, she said.
...

Compiling information from witness accounts, police said in a statement: “Detectives believe Dulce was taken by a light-skinned Hispanic male, 5′6” to 5′8″, thin build, no facial hair and facial acne, wearing orange sneakers, red pants and a black shirt.

“The suspect was last seen leading Dulce from the Bridgeton City Park playground to a red van with a sliding door and tinted windows at approximately 4:20 p.m. Monday."​

September 19, 2019
Mother of 5-year-old South Jersey girl apparently abducted in Bridgeton park grieves and waits

 

[jjenny]

Police have repeatedly scanned the park by ground, air and water this week. The effort has included K-9s, dive teams and the park’s historic “raceway” that carries water from Sunset Lake was drained earlier this week.

It was unclear what prompted the renewed effort to search the park’s wooded areas on Friday. Police and volunteers canvassed the park and adjacent properties extensively in days following Dulce’s disappearance. The search included the use of aircraft and thermal imaging.
Police launch large-scale search of N.J. park where 5-year-old Dulce Alavez went missing

I couldn't find other specific names of water where LE searched but they seem to be on top of things.

If the perp in the van took her, she wouldn't be in the park. So do police not believe she was taken by someone in the van?

 

[SuperTmo]

We know the exact time that they were at the ice cream shop, and witnesses described the suspect and his vehicle. That suggests that someone saw the suspect with the child at his red van. 4:20 is the time that has been given as the time of abduction.

Of course, we can imagine that this information is wrong, and speculate that no one really knows anything about the time of abduction.

Right, like I said, we know roughly what time they got to the park. We know the mom called 911 at whatever time. We know nothing about anything in between.

What we do know is this: the witnesses didn’t describe anything the first day they were asked. It was only the next day while being reinterviewed that they offered any info. So you are telling me that these witnesses who couldn’t remember seeing the suspect or his car within an hour or so of it happening somehow magically recalled seeing this go down at 4:20? If they knew this and were asked about it almost immediately after it happened, why wouldn’t they say anything?

Nope. Facts aren’t aligning.

ETA no, I’m not blaming the mom or saying she was involved. I think this was a stranger abduction. All I am saying is that the witness statements and her timeline are likely not completely true. I would not blame her for saying it was only a few minutes. She is young and scared and trying to manage a whole lot of junk at once, and it likely made zero difference to the outcome. But I think they were alone a lot longer than 3-10 minutes.

 

[otto]

If the perp in the van took her, she wouldn't be in the park. So do police not believe she was taken by someone in the van?

I've been wondering that too - why search the park when she was taken in a van - but I suppose they have to rule out the possibility that the suspect did not go far before looking at other options.

 

[Rosiebones]

"While Alavez Perez spoke with her sister about the little girl’s homework in the parking lot, Dulce and Manuel ran toward the swings on the playground about 30 yards away. They were out of sight for less than three minutes when Manuel ran back, crying and pointing to a spot near park buildings, she said.
...

Compiling information from witness accounts, police said in a statement: “Detectives believe Dulce was taken by a light-skinned Hispanic male, 5′6” to 5′8″, thin build, no facial hair and facial acne, wearing orange sneakers, red pants and a black shirt.

“The suspect was last seen leading Dulce from the Bridgeton City Park playground to a red van with a sliding door and tinted windows at approximately 4:20 p.m. Monday."​

September 19, 2019
Mother of 5-year-old South Jersey girl apparently abducted in Bridgeton park grieves and waits

Upon re reading the highlighted portion above it says last seen leading Dulce from the Bridgeton City Park playground to a red van etc at approximately 4:20.
This van could have been on a city street just over the river, outside of the park. The pedestrian bridge and the street bridge are near enough. All of this may have taken place out side the park and have been picked up by cameras.

It may also be why LE wants to speak again to the person seen.

 

[jjenny]

I've been wondering that too - why search the park when she was taken in a van - but I suppose they have to rule out the possibility that the suspect did not go far before looking at other options.

If perp had means of transportation chances of him not going away from the park are slim to none. So sounds like police are the very least not sure of the van story and the guy in red/orange/black clothing.

 

[zecats]

Question for someone familiar with the area: after abducting Dulce, the goal is to get to an isolated area as fast as possible, where did he go next?

View attachment 205776

View attachment 205777

Wow...almost any direction. Bridgeton is surrounded by farmland and rural homes which are in turn surrounded by woods and marshlands (depending on the direction you travel). There is a deserted ski area not too far, many lakes and waterways in all directions and a state park with isolated hiking trails. Lots of wildlife refuges as well, which as I recall, are also pretty deserted. If he lives or is employed in the area, maybe in agriculture, he could even have headed back in the direction of a specific farm.

I can't help but wonder, if he is local (and I feel he is), and with the description of him and his van, why he hasn't been found - unless he is being protected by someone somewhere.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I don’t have a photo from the perspective you mention. However, in being very familiar with that park, I can tell you this. The courts back right up to the playground, the courts are fenced in. Even though mom was sitting in a car, some ways away, there was still a view from her car to the playground. Perhaps not completely unobstructed, but enough that she probably felt comfortable enough.

I think, if this is a stranger abduction, it is easy enough for someone to have been parked behind the storage buildings that the 3yr old mentioned/pointed out. It is a secluded area. It has some old tennis courts, that appear unkept and caged storage areas, like platforms that are used to store park equipment, containers, lights, etc. this area is not as populated as the other areas of the park.

It would be quite easy for someone parked here to have a pretty decent view of the children playing on the playground, from between the two buildings and easier still to walk between these buildings, unnoticed and approach a child, or call them over, etc. Even lure them further over to behind the buildings where a child could be put into a car and driven away without getting much attention. It’s a busy park, especially that time of day, but busy doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is paying attention, but rather chaotic busy where things may not be noticed with the noise levels of nearby practicing football teams, cheerleader practice, kids screaming on a playground and the sounds of basketball.

I’m posting a few maps of the area to put it in perspective.

Key:
Blue is where mom parked
Yellow is swingset
Green is basketball courts
Red is storage buildings
White is secluded area behind storage buildings
Black is paths out/roads

Forgive the roughness, I did these hastily.

Also, from aerial view, areas seem further away than if you were standing there. See maps with distances measured.

I may go out there later as they are having a candlelight vigil, maybe grab pics, if I get there early enough.

Thank you @Hudsonnotary This is very helpful. Your pictures with you detailed description definitely helped me get a better picture of the area!

 

[SuperTmo]

Wow...almost any direction. Bridgeton is surrounded by farmland and rural homes which are in turn surrounded by woods and marshlands (depending on the direction you travel). There is a deserted ski area not too far, many lakes and waterways in all directions and a state park with isolated hiking trails. Lots of wildlife refuges as well, which as I recall, are also pretty deserted. If he lives or is employed in the area, maybe in agriculture, he could even have headed back in the direction of a specific farm.

I can't help but wonder, if he is local (and I feel he is), and with the description of him and his van, why he hasn't been found - unless he is being protected by someone somewhere.

I wish we knew more about this alleged van and what it looked like. How many witnesses saw it? What shade of red, how old or new, what style. Did the sliding doors have windows like a minivan or was it like a work van. A rusted up old brown truck my grandpa had was always called red because unless you were close it looked like a burnt reddish color. Maybe this perp has a rusty brown van that looks red but people who know him know it’s brown, or a van with a maroon paint job bur since they are asking about a *red* van with no other descriptive info, the perp is sliding under the radar. Why is there such a lack of meaningful details??

 

[MJPeony]

You've got me wondering if Dulce was originally spotted by the perp at the convenience store, and followed her and her family to the park??? Hopefully they've checked the CCTV for the store. I'm sure they have...

Three minutes is an extremely short period of time for a perp to see his victim (a stranger), and formulate a plan to kidnap. IMO

BBM

I totally agree! Borders on the not possible for me- so either they were out of sight longer than the stated 3 minutes, or this was pre-planned. No question in MY mind until further info is available. JMO.

 

[momrids6]

Acne, but no hair color .

K is all day it looks like, and the Aunt would be school age as well, so at least one, if not many, know Noema was doing the school pickup and/or taking kids to the park. Dulce wasn't in the school uniform, nor was the Aunt.

 

[SuperTmo]

Acne, but no hair color .

K is all day it looks like, and the Aunt would be school age as well, so at least one, if not many, know Noema was doing the school pickup and/or taking kids to the park. Dulce wasn't in the school uniform, nor was the Aunt.

Hmmm... I wonder if the school verified their attendance that day? Maybe they didn’t go because of whatever reason. What time does school dismiss there? Here it is 4:00 pm, but I know that isn’t common.

 

[MsBetsy]

This whole case hinges on this description but I am skeptical of it. I want to know

• How many witnesses gave the report?
• When was the description given? Was it at the scene within the hour or many hours or even a day after?
• Were people interviewed together or separate?
• Did the witnesses speak English? If not did the officers speak Spanish?
• What exactly did they witness? Did they witness the ice cream incident? Did they see the 3 year old cry?
• Based on my understanding of the maps, the monster would have had to be parked within eyesight of the park for anyone at the park to see Dulce get into the van? But everyone thinks he snuck her out the back behind the buildings? So who saw her get in the van?

I just woke up I should not already be thinking about this before I have breakfast. I hope today is the day...tomorrow is one week...

There were reportedly about 24 witnesses hanging out near or on the courts. LE was able to conduct several interviews at the park but some wandered off once they arrived.
They were able to locate most of those witnesses and were able to come up with a description of the suspect.

He is between five-foot-six and five-foot-eight, light skinned, possibly Hispanic, with no facial hair and acne on his face.

He was wearing a black shirt, red pants, and orange sneakers.

LE believe she was lured away from the playground. She was seen being seated in the back seat of a red van with tinted windows and sliding doors.

I'm assuming it is the culmination of these interviews that helped LE come up with this information.

They apparently are still trying to locate some of the people who were there, who were seen on surveillance cameras.

IMO

 

[otto]

Wow...almost any direction. Bridgeton is surrounded by farmland and rural homes which are in turn surrounded by woods and marshlands (depending on the direction you travel). There is a deserted ski area not too far, many lakes and waterways in all directions and a state park with isolated hiking trails. Lots of wildlife refuges as well, which as I recall, are also pretty deserted. If he lives or is employed in the area, maybe in agriculture, he could even have headed back in the direction of a specific farm.

I can't help but wonder, if he is local (and I feel he is), and with the description of him and his van, why he hasn't been found - unless he is being protected by someone somewhere.

I read that 51% or the population of 25,000 is Hispanic. The description seems so unique that someone has to know him. When Mollie Tibbets disappeared, no one who knew the suspect came forward, even though some people must have wondered about him. The problem was that it was a community of illegal immigrants.

If investigators want information, I really think they need to guarantee that if the info is provided by an illegal immigrant, that person will not be deported and will receive the reward. Without that guarantee, they will very likely say nothing.

 

[momrids6]

I looked at the school Bell schedules. 3 when they dismiss- 315 maybe. I looked at it awhile ago. A local will chime in soon I hope

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I think boys were pressed and supplied ‘answers’. Adolescent mentality. Kind of like her 3 year old brother....feed us the answers.

I would assume that’s possible. But I also would think and hope that investigators would have treated them as possible witnesses and persons of interest at the same time and trained investigators would have questioned them.

 

[Wild Rose]

I find that odd as well, that there is no age range given. Somebody supposedly saw him close enough to notice acne, but no idea of how old he might be. Anyhow, acne and colorful clothing suggest someone younger?

Might be a young witness. Everybody over 30 to a kid is "old".....

 

[otto]

I wish we knew more about this alleged van and what it looked like. How many witnesses saw it? What shade of red, how old or new, what style. Did the sliding doors have windows like a minivan or was it like a work van. A rusted up old brown truck my grandpa had was always called red because unless you were close it looked like a burnt reddish color. Maybe this perp has a rusty brown van that looks red but people who know him know it’s brown, or a van with a maroon paint job bur since they are asking about a *red* van with no other descriptive info, the perp is sliding under the radar. Why is there such a lack of meaningful details??

"Dulce Maria Alavez disappeared from City Park in Bridgeton. Authorities said a man, possibly Hispanic, led Dulce from the park to a red van with a sliding side door and tinted windows. The man had Dulce get in the backseat before he drove away at around 4:20 p.m., according to a statewide Amber Alert late Tuesday night that remains active."​

September 19
$20K reward offered for information about missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez