NJ NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted @ Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland Co, 16 Sep 2019 #7

[MichelleBlue]

I am trying not to victim-blame as I am sure Dulce's mom feels so much guilt about her choices that day. However, I guess I am struck by the orange safety fencing signaling the playground was not in a condition for children to use. I see the swings were not fenced off, but it just doesn't look like a safe place for young children to play, even with supervision. MOO ugh.

 

[Stunned]

The discussion about Dulce has been confused about the essential quality of parental supervision. Although a parent is needed in many ways, they are the voice for the child in an emergency. If they attend to their child but cannot prevent an abduction from occurring, at least they can provide the authorities with an accurate description of what happened. We are missing that in this case. Noema is not a bad person. She’s young; I don’t think she understood why she should stay with them.

wonderful, compassionate post. Thank you

 

[Beekarina]

I am trying not to victim-blame as I am sure Dulce's mom feels so much guilt about her choices that day. However, I guess I am struck by the orange safety fencing signaling the playground was not in a condition for children to use. I see the swings were not fenced off, but it just doesn't look like a safe place for young children to play, even with supervision. MOO ugh.

That's true abt the fencing, however a woman who works as an advocate was there with her kids a few days prior, and remember a seeing Dulce. (She was quoted in need articles linked earlier. I don't have handy, but she mentions Dulce's beautiful hair as being memorable.)

So, it seems perhaps it was common to use the playground anyway?

 

[WildOrchid]

This is a great article. It contains info that some of us have mused aloud about.
‘I still have hope that she’s alive,’ mother of missing Bridgeton girl says

 

[MJPeony]

This is a great article. It contains info that some of us have mused aloud about.
‘I still have hope that she’s alive,’ mother of missing Bridgeton girl says

From the article:

“She said she didn’t really know Dulce’s father, Edgar Perez, who is about five years older and got her pregnant when she was 13. They weren’t in a relationship, she said”

 

[janewall]

From the article:

“She said she didn’t really know Dulce’s father, Edgar Perez, who is about five years older and got her pregnant when she was 13. They weren’t in a relationship, she said”

It is notable IMO that Noema's current boyfriend, Edgar Martinez, also is significantly older than she is. He's 27 while she is just 19. Fortunately both are legally adults, and there is an ongoing relationship there. But for me, red flags persist regarding a pattern of her teenage interactions with older men, and whether that has impacted her maturity and well-being, or even her ability to recognize risks other people could pose to her children. I hope I'm not falling on the wrong side of the rules by saying that. MOO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“Nobody spontaneously disappears. Someone in the community, somebody knows something that will be invaluable to this," FBI Newark Special Agent in Charge Gregory Ehrie said Thursday in the FBI's first public comments on the case.

Ehrie said that the FBI is examining every lead they have and is still turning up valuable leads.

“There have been terrabytes of video I’ve gone through over and over again," Ehrie said.

The FBI's Child Abduction Rapid Deployment unit was brought in to the investigation within 24 hours of Dulce's disappearance. The unit's national supervisor, Christina Bradford, said the case is still active and there's a lot going on behind the scenes.
'Nobody spontaneously disappears,' FBI says 4 months after NJ girl vanished

 

[demetra]

My thoughts and prayers are with Noema and her family. The fear of where Dulce could be, who might have her? Is she suffering? Did someone take her just to harm her and she is no longer alive? Did someone take her because they wanted a beautiful little girl of their own? The constant thinking of who and why her? must be unbearable. The statement Noema made about “She said she didn’t know Dulce’s father does not alarm me one bit she will not be the first or last young girl into things at that age that leads to a one night stand or a brief sexual encounter without knowing the guy or anything about him it is sad but true.[imo] I believe Noema was negligent for sitting in the car and had she got out sweet Dulce would be home with her loving grandma and family right now, but I do not believe Noema is guilty of anything to do with her daughters disappearance as far as who took her and where she is. Noema was not in a situation of having to take care of the two kids 24/7 she was not responsible for putting a roof over their heads or worry about feeding them their grandparents did all that they lived with them. so it was not like Dulce was in Noema's way keeping her from doing her own thing, so why would she have a reason to harm or disappear her child? I have looked at the timeline countless times they were getting ice cream at or around [4 pm] and at around 4:20 she went to look at the swings for Dulce the 911 call began at 4:48 p.m. so [imo] even though she called her brother and looked on her own once she noticed she was gone it took less than 30 minutes to call 911. That is a hell of a lot quicker than some parents report a missing child. I believe the perp was able to get Dulce to come over between the buildings and it was as simple as threatening or covering her mouth to keep her from screaming and either Immediately ran thru the woods or to a car parked behind the buildings and was long gone within those 10 minutes or so before Noema started looking or asking others what they see? Who was looking or paying attention to Dulce before Noema started asking people? Did anyone see Dulce being put in a van? or was that the first vehicle someone thought of that was leaving the park right before Noema said her child was missing? Just a lot of ramblings and thoughts in my head nothing I have stated are facts just what I think and feel about this whole situation of this beautiful little girl who is missing. imo

 

[MsBetsy]

It is notable IMO that Noema's current boyfriend, Edgar Martinez, also is significantly older than she is. He's 27 while she is just 19. Fortunately both are legally adults, and there is an ongoing relationship there. But for me, red flags persist regarding a pattern of her teenage interactions with older men, and whether that has impacted her maturity and well-being, or even her ability to recognize risks other people could pose to her children. I hope I'm not falling on the wrong side of the rules by saying that. MOO.

She probably did not have much of a childhood after the age of 12.
She was not old enough to consent when she became pregnant with her first child. She is about to have her third child so it's not surprising that she is not the typical 19 year old.
She even looks much older for her age.
Having a baby at age 13 pretty much ends childhood abruptly.
She probably had a difficult time adjusting and that's why she did a lot of partying in her past.
I think she had no choice but to grow up and mature faster than most teenagers. She must be very strong emotionally for her age. She wouldn't be interested in socializing with many her own age because she doesn't have anything in common with them anymore. So it makes sense that she would be with someone a little older. Eight years difference is not significant to me.

Anyway, I'm glad to see the family has not given up hope and that LE is continuing to investigate and look into leads.
I'm still hoping for a positive outcome.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I find it interesting also. Did LE ever speak face to face with Dulce’s father?

I remember Noema talking about him in the early interviews and she talked about his custody interest and that he was going to university to provide a better life for his daughter.

After LE spoke to the father on the phone they stated that the FBI would be travelling to Mexico to interview him.
So I'm assuming they did but we didn't hear anything about the result of that interview as far as I know.
My thoughts about the father is that he never had much interest in raising Dulce, being a part of her life, or providing for her in any way.
Once he admitted she was his daughter he reportedly said he wanted to go to court for custody and that he would eventually provide for her but that was almost six years ago and according to Dulce's mom he never followed through.

I think he has moved on. He reportedly was never involved in her life and apparently has done nothing to help find her.

Imo

 

[janewall]

She probably did not have much of a childhood after the age of 12.
She was not old enough to consent when she became pregnant with her first child. She is about to have her third child so it's not surprising that she is not the typical 19 year old.
She even looks much older for her age.
Having a baby at age 13 pretty much ends childhood abruptly.
She probably had a difficult time adjusting and that's why she did a lot of partying in her past.
I think she had no choice but to grow up and mature faster than most teenagers. She must be very strong emotionally for her age. She wouldn't be interested in socializing with many her own age because she doesn't have anything in common with them anymore. So it makes sense that she would be with someone a little older. Eight years difference is not significant to me.

Anyway, I'm glad to see the family has not given up hope and that LE is continuing to investigate and look into leads.
I'm still hoping for a positive outcome.

Imo

ITA.

It is her past that breaks my heart for her, not her current relationship with EM. That may be the one good thing she has uplifting her in this tragedy. We don't know, because we haven't seen much of him, thanks in part to the hamhanded ICE detention he endured early in the case.

Noema apparently has had a difficult road since she was a preteen, and it has had permanent consequences in her life, in Manuel's, and saddest of all in Dulce's. I'm sure it hasn't been easy on her parents either – but she was the one who was a child. Parents are supposed to protect adolescents and pre-adolescents as well as babies and toddlers. I'm not trying to victim-blame; as immigrants they may well have been naive to the various risks broader American society poses to children, and felt secure in their local community, not realizing that outside influences filter in, and all children need to be protected and educated about how to avoid those risks regardless of how safe the neighborhood is believed to be.

MOO.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I check here daily for updates & I rarely say anything, but I gotta tell say what’s on my mind...
Noema was a CHILD when she “got” pregnant & by no means do I think what led up to that pregnancy was mutual. This is clear cut child abuse IMO MOST abused children remain frozen in that time period of their first trauma unless/until they seek help. That is why I feel her maturity is stunted. Also IMO In her Dr. Phil episode, she is disassociating. WHY??? Because that is what abused people DO when ANOTHER trauma (Dulce’s disappearance) happens. That is how abused people SURVIVE. She “partied” to COPE, right or wrong doesn’t EXIST in that scenario, IMO Because she may not have even realized what happened to her was abuse....and for that reason, Noema has nothing but care & sympathy from me.
All of the above is MOO from experience......

 

[tacosandkayaking]

I check here daily for updates & I rarely say anything, but I gotta tell say what’s on my mind...
Noema was a CHILD when she “got” pregnant & by no means do I think what led up to that pregnancy was mutual. This is clear cut child abuse IMO MOST abused children remain frozen in that time period of their first trauma unless/until they seek help. That is why I feel her maturity is stunted. Also IMO In her Dr. Phil episode, she is disassociating. WHY??? Because that is what abused people DO when ANOTHER trauma (Dulce’s disappearance) happens. That is how abused people SURVIVE. She “partied” to COPE, right or wrong doesn’t EXIST in that scenario, IMO Because she may not have even realized what happened to her was abuse....and for that reason, Noema has nothing but care & sympathy from me.
All of the above is MOO from experience......

Yes. I agree with you. I can’t imagine my sister having a baby at the age of 13. She was still doing silly girl stuff at that age. She would in no way be prepared for that. Or to have another child at 16. It’s very sad.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I check here daily for updates & I rarely say anything, but I gotta tell say what’s on my mind...
Noema was a CHILD when she “got” pregnant & by no means do I think what led up to that pregnancy was mutual. This is clear cut child abuse IMO MOST abused children remain frozen in that time period of their first trauma unless/until they seek help. That is why I feel her maturity is stunted. Also IMO In her Dr. Phil episode, she is disassociating. WHY??? Because that is what abused people DO when ANOTHER trauma (Dulce’s disappearance) happens. That is how abused people SURVIVE. She “partied” to COPE, right or wrong doesn’t EXIST in that scenario, IMO Because she may not have even realized what happened to her was abuse....and for that reason, Noema has nothing but care & sympathy from me.
All of the above is MOO from experience......

I think there is a lot of validity to your speculations. In addition, there may be cognitive impairment contributing to her vague presentment. We don’t know.

The park where Dulce disappeared is huge. Despite the many searches, I think it’s highly likely that is where she will be found. Finding someone outdoors even with grid searches is very difficult.

I would continue searching the park. I speculate she is within a half mile of where she disappeared

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I think there is a lot of validity to your speculations. In addition, there may be cognitive impairment contributing to her vague presentment. We don’t know.

The park where Dulce disappeared is huge. Despite the many searches, I think it’s highly likely that is where she will be found. Finding someone outdoors even with grid searches is very difficult.

I would continue searching the park. I speculate she is within a half mile of where she disappeared

amateur opinion and speculation

ITA with you, rosesfromangels. It makes so much sense that Dulce would still be there. There have been other cases, where searchers have walked right by someone & have missed them. I will admit I have been hoping all this time that Dulce is just being hidden somewhere, but I need to accept that is more than likely not the case

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I check here daily for updates & I rarely say anything, but I gotta tell say what’s on my mind...
Noema was a CHILD when she “got” pregnant & by no means do I think what led up to that pregnancy was mutual. This is clear cut child abuse IMO MOST abused children remain frozen in that time period of their first trauma unless/until they seek help. That is why I feel her maturity is stunted. Also IMO In her Dr. Phil episode, she is disassociating. WHY??? Because that is what abused people DO when ANOTHER trauma (Dulce’s disappearance) happens. That is how abused people SURVIVE. She “partied” to COPE, right or wrong doesn’t EXIST in that scenario, IMO Because she may not have even realized what happened to her was abuse....and for that reason, Noema has nothing but care & sympathy from me.
All of the above is MOO from experience......

Very insightful post IMO. Thank you for posting it.

 

[Stunned]

Still nothing! Has mom had her baby yet?

 

[zecats]

Still nothing! Has mom had her baby yet?

I keep looking for info about that. My guess is yes, strictly due to timing. Haven't seen any statement though about it anywhere - MSM or SM.

ETA Mu - My

 

[Stunned]

I keep looking for info about that. Mu guess is yes, strictly due to timing. Haven't seen any statement though about it anywhere - MSM or SM.

Poor woman!

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Poor woman!

? I could be wrong but think the family would welcome the distraction (I mean that in a positive way) and healing of caring for a precious newborn.