Found Deceased NJ - Gary Parker, 67 & Lorraine, 60, riding ATV in Pine Barrens, Warren Grove, Stafford, 22 Nov 2021

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The only animals that ever gave me pause for concern when I was in the pine barrens were wild dog packs. Everything else tries to avoid you if possible, once the blue jays and squirrels announce your presence, every animal within a mile radius knows you are there.
 
SuziQ said:
Imo, five incidents A year is alot.
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There was one single incident in all of 2020 (not fatal). Incidents in previous years seem to be home/garage invasions - not out in the woods. The first-ever recorded fatality was in 2014 (hike). Sightings are mostly in central/northern NJ. This is southern NJ. Sightings and nuisance reports of black bears are up in the past year, but mostly north. In any case, I think knowing whether they usually brought a shotgun for rides will help. JMO.

3 N.J. bear sightings got attention, but we are actually seeing fewer bears this year

Black Bear Kills Rutgers Student During a Hike in New Jersey (Published 2014)
 
Per this article, the ATV was found either on or adjacent to their property. That’s interesting - I assumed the ATV was on trails. Did they even go out on ATV that day? Would they normally bring a phone? Phones found in house.

- “Extensive and exhaustive searches over two days last week turned up no sign of the couple. However, one of the couple’s ATV quads was found with a shotgun attached to it near the back of their property.”

- “At this point in time, we do have more questions than answers,” Stafford Township Police Captain James Vaughn said.

- “Police also told NBC10 they found the couple’s cell phones and credit cards inside their house. They were last used on Sunday, November 21, the last time anyone heard from the couple.”

Police Search for Missing NJ Husband and Wife
 
New Jersey has very strict concealed carry laws but have slightly more relaxed open carry laws for long rifles, non-handguns. That is what the shotgun would fall under….so I don’t think it’s that strange to have a long gun strapped to the back or the ATV. Just my opinion.
 
Shamrock1 said:
There was one single incident in all of 2020 (not fatal). Incidents in previous years seem to be home/garage invasions - not out in the woods. The first-ever recorded fatality was in 2014 (hike). Sightings are mostly in central/northern NJ. This is southern NJ. Sightings and nuisance reports of black bears are up in the past year, but mostly north. In any case, I think knowing whether they usually brought a shotgun for rides will help. JMO.

3 N.J. bear sightings got attention, but we are actually seeing fewer bears this year

Black Bear Kills Rutgers Student During a Hike in New Jersey (Published 2014)
Click to expand...

Fwiw, I don't think bear is responsible. Just that was a possible reason for bringing a shotgun. And you would definitely want a shotgun by your side if you are on foot.

Idk, I think there is a fair amount of black bears in NJ. How many bears are in the woods for every bear that wanders into town? Plenty I think.

Moo.
 
bkgregg5 said:
New Jersey has very strict concealed carry laws but have slightly more relaxed open carry laws for long rifles, non-handguns. That is what the shotgun would fall under….so I don’t think it’s that strange to have a long gun strapped to the back or the ATV. Just my opinion.
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Where I am at it is unusual to not see them on an ATV. I never thought about it, but you really can't cac a long gun can you. Lol. My shotgun is home protection. I think just about everyone I know that has long guns must be for the same reason as they don't hunt.

Moo.
 
I am from South Jersey and familiar with the Pines and surrounding rural areas. The Pines are a very unique place - both from a nature standpoint and a cultural standpoint. The Pines are not what people think of when the think of New Jersey, but North Jersey and South Jersey (where the Pines are) are pretty much two completely different worlds and North Jersey is more like what people think of New Jersey. South Jersey is much more rural and suburban, with the Pines occupying a huge part of South Jersey. The Pines sits overtop of a HUGE aquifier so there are many restrictions about building and use of the land there, and this is overseen by the Pinelands Commission. It has long been both known and a running joke that if you want to hide a body, the Pines is the place to do it. Many rumors even have Jimmy Hoffa (as well as other organized crime figures) to have been buried here. There are many ghost towns throughout the Pines, where all that is left are the remnants of foundations. Iron, glass, cranberries and blueberries are probably the biggest industries currently and historically linked to the Pines. Unfortunately, forest fires can destroy areas of the Pines - both a curse and a blessing - for it is the fires that heat the pine cones enough to allow them to seed new pines, otherwise the area would eventually turn into more of an oak forest. But the fires often destroyed the little towns that developed in areas where iron ore was found and people got tired of rebuilding. Then, during World War I and II, scrappers were known to take what hadn't burned, leaving little other than crumbling stone foundations and depressions where houses, etc once stood.

This area is a HUGE draw to people who like to explore - in 4-wheelers, ATVs and on horseback. It is VERY easy to get lost in the Pines and there are many lakes and old quarry areas that can be quite dangerous. One could easily get lost and die of exposure if the temperatures were to fall. However, it seems that the Parker's were very familiar with the area and I would assume they likely knew the areas well enough to avoid falling victim to hazardous areas. But just like other wilderness areas in the country/world, there are people that like to venture into the Pines in order to escape more populated areas - some just because they like the peaceful privacy and others because they may have criminal intent, such as manufacturing meth, etc.

Even though NJ does have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, it is not uncommon for people in more rural areas to ignore these rules and there is often not much police presence to oversee this. Most of the Pinelands is covered by State Police and Forest Rangers and they are more concerned with more serious crimes than someone playing around with a shotgun.

All of this being said, I just wanted to give people a glimpse of the area. I'll try to add some pictures/video next. I love the area - the history, the culture, the beauty, the remoteness, etc. My daughter and her friends spend a lot of time in the Pines going on "woods runs" swimming and red-neck water-skiing (a truck, a rope and a board). But there can be a darkness to the Pines that can be very spooky - not to mention the Jersey Devil.

So, as far as the Parkers: I find it very odd that the police stated that "only one ATV was involved". What do they mean "involved"? Involved in what? ATVs are big in Phila as well as many other cities in the country, with groups recklessly driving through the city with no regards to laws and the safety of others. If caught, these ATVs are confiscated by police and are often stolen and/or illegal. It would be important to see if the Parker's had listed any of their ATVs for sale and been targeted by someone pretending to be a buyer, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread.

Although I pray for their safe return and hope, I am concerned that the shotgun was left behind, as were their cell phones, etc. Even though it can often be difficult, if not impossible, to get reception in the Pines, I can't see anyone going out without their cell phone. I, too, don't think it has anything to do with wildlife. Even if there were a bear attack (which would be EXTREMELY rare!), I doubt a bear would have been able to disable or kill both of them.
 
SuziQ said:
Fwiw, I don't think bear is responsible. Just that was a possible reason for bringing a shotgun. And you would definitely want a shotgun by your side if you are on foot.

Idk, I think there is a fair amount of black bears in NJ. How many bears are in the woods for every bear that wanders into town? Plenty I think.

Moo.
Click to expand...
I have hiked extensively in north Jersey and bit in south Jersey as well. I have run into bear(s) on several occasions. You do not need a gun. They don't want anything to do with people. Just have a little bit of knowledge about bears and you'll be fine. Just make your presence known (don't surprise them) and don't be threatening or come across as prey (run from them) and you won't have any issues. The only thing I was ever scared about while hiking was hunters.
 
sjinnj said:
I have hiked extensively in north Jersey and bit in south Jersey as well. I have run into bear(s) on several occasions. You do not need a gun. They don't want anything to do with people. Just have a little bit of knowledge about bears and you'll be fine. Just make your presence known (don't surprise them) and don't be threatening or come across as prey (run from them) and you won't have any issues. The only thing I was ever scared about while hiking was hunters.
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Agree, most of the bears are more afraid of you than you are of them - unless it is a mother protecting her cubs, but that is not likely this time of year.

I am not so much afraid of hunters (except for maybe getting accidentally shot by a careless one), however I am more afraid of coming across someone who is out there and doesn't seem to be out there just to enjoy nature. It is coming up on a year since South Jersey lost a wonderful man, Joseph Bottino, who was murdered while hunting on a Boy Scout Reservation in Pine Hill. Mr Bottino was in the right place at the wrong time and crossed paths with a reportedly mentally ill man, Shawn Massey, who allegedly murdered him.
 
Angelcat13 said:
Agree, most of the bears are more afraid of you than you are of them - unless it is a mother protecting her cubs, but that is not likely this time of year.

I am not so much afraid of hunters (except for maybe getting accidentally shot by a careless one), however I am more afraid of coming across someone who is out there and doesn't seem to be out there just to enjoy nature. It is coming up on a year since South Jersey lost a wonderful man, Joseph Bottino, who was murdered while hunting on a Boy Scout Reservation in Pine Hill. Mr Bottino was in the right place at the wrong time and crossed paths with a reportedly mentally ill man, Shawn Massey, who allegedly murdered him.
Click to expand...

I am also from this area, on a nice day, we like to hike with our dog in the Pine Barrens just north of where they were lost, in Double Trouble SP and some of the other areas in Ocean County and have never heard of anyone killed by a bear in this area. When hiking, my biggest fear is running into a shady character with a gun, but that's because I read too many crime stories, not that there are reports of anyone hiding in the woods of NJ.

I drive a lot in the Ocean County area and always see people on quads illegally using a shoulder road to get another part of the pine barrens.

This case baffles me. The road their home is on and the surrounding area is not that extensive where someone could get lost in the woods for this long, it's located between Routes 539 and 72, Cedar Bridge is closer to 539, both routes are heavily traveled.
 
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Most of my experience in the pines was during the 70's and 80's in and around Toms River, Lacy Township and Double Trouble State Park. Found lots of old glass manufacturing and house foundations. Once found a grave stone near a house foundation for a boy that died at a young age. Some areas are so thick that you almost cannot fit between the trees. It is an easy area to get lost in.
 
Angelcat13 said:
I am from South Jersey and familiar with the Pines and surrounding rural areas. The Pines are a very unique place - both from a nature standpoint and a cultural standpoint. The Pines are not what people think of when the think of New Jersey, but North Jersey and South Jersey (where the Pines are) are pretty much two completely different worlds and North Jersey is more like what people think of New Jersey. South Jersey is much more rural and suburban, with the Pines occupying a huge part of South Jersey. The Pines sits overtop of a HUGE aquifier so there are many restrictions about building and use of the land there, and this is overseen by the Pinelands Commission. It has long been both known and a running joke that if you want to hide a body, the Pines is the place to do it. Many rumors even have Jimmy Hoffa (as well as other organized crime figures) to have been buried here. There are many ghost towns throughout the Pines, where all that is left are the remnants of foundations. Iron, glass, cranberries and blueberries are probably the biggest industries currently and historically linked to the Pines. Unfortunately, forest fires can destroy areas of the Pines - both a curse and a blessing - for it is the fires that heat the pine cones enough to allow them to seed new pines, otherwise the area would eventually turn into more of an oak forest. But the fires often destroyed the little towns that developed in areas where iron ore was found and people got tired of rebuilding. Then, during World War I and II, scrappers were known to take what hadn't burned, leaving little other than crumbling stone foundations and depressions where houses, etc once stood.

This area is a HUGE draw to people who like to explore - in 4-wheelers, ATVs and on horseback. It is VERY easy to get lost in the Pines and there are many lakes and old quarry areas that can be quite dangerous. One could easily get lost and die of exposure if the temperatures were to fall. However, it seems that the Parker's were very familiar with the area and I would assume they likely knew the areas well enough to avoid falling victim to hazardous areas. But just like other wilderness areas in the country/world, there are people that like to venture into the Pines in order to escape more populated areas - some just because they like the peaceful privacy and others because they may have criminal intent, such as manufacturing meth, etc.

Even though NJ does have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, it is not uncommon for people in more rural areas to ignore these rules and there is often not much police presence to oversee this. Most of the Pinelands is covered by State Police and Forest Rangers and they are more concerned with more serious crimes than someone playing around with a shotgun.

All of this being said, I just wanted to give people a glimpse of the area. I'll try to add some pictures/video next. I love the area - the history, the culture, the beauty, the remoteness, etc. My daughter and her friends spend a lot of time in the Pines going on "woods runs" swimming and red-neck water-skiing (a truck, a rope and a board). But there can be a darkness to the Pines that can be very spooky - not to mention the Jersey Devil.

So, as far as the Parkers: I find it very odd that the police stated that "only one ATV was involved". What do they mean "involved"? Involved in what? ATVs are big in Phila as well as many other cities in the country, with groups recklessly driving through the city with no regards to laws and the safety of others. If caught, these ATVs are confiscated by police and are often stolen and/or illegal. It would be important to see if the Parker's had listed any of their ATVs for sale and been targeted by someone pretending to be a buyer, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread.

Although I pray for their safe return and hope, I am concerned that the shotgun was left behind, as were their cell phones, etc. Even though it can often be difficult, if not impossible, to get reception in the Pines, I can't see anyone going out without their cell phone. I, too, don't think it has anything to do with wildlife. Even if there were a bear attack (which would be EXTREMELY rare!), I doubt a bear would have been able to disable or kill both of them.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your explanation. I am following this story from rural Tennessee and it would be unusual here for someone to be out and about on a trail without a gun. It is just the way of life here.
 
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