NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

[Sunshine 1950]

Excuse me... to correct post#32 Hamilton Station foundation is now on north side of highway 285. The highway is new since 1961

When I went looking for the murder scene I found the Hamilton Station foundation as well....

 

[fish1966]

Just thinking...at that time would there be an opening to the gas tanks under the ground to drop a gun into? WB was there at least twice on the 13th. Once at noon drinking a 7up and again after the bodies were found looking for a phone.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I have always wondered how the killers retrieved the slugs from the murder scene. But they would also have to know how to clean up the scene so well. How could they find the slugs in the dark? Also...what about the footprints of the girls...wouldn't there be footprints from them out there if they were killed there? How about the stick or rock that was used on Patty...where is it? I have so many questions about this being the actually murder scene.
If the projectile of the head shots were not straight down into the ground wouldn't that make the slugs more out in the area? I'm not the smartest person about how guns work or what they leave behind...but I just have trouble thinking they couldn't find something out there.

if we knew for sure, the exact size of the entry wound, it would help determine type of weapon........small caliber handgun, a 2 shot derringer would fall into this category...it was a small gun, popular back then, as some places today, so small it could fit into your palm of your hand .....but not good far away, one had to be up close....

i need to read this whole thread i know!

 

[Sunshine 1950]

if we knew for sure, the exact size of the entry wound, it would help determine type of weapon........small caliber handgun, a 2 shot derringer would fall into this category...it was a small gun, popular back then, as some places today, so small it could fit into your palm of your hand .....but not good far away, one had to be up close....

i need to read this whole thread i know!

Mattie Restine: Dr. Haynes, Autopsy report.
The scalp is incised in the usual manner revealing numerous areas of hemorrhage underlying. The posterior right portion of the skull is depressed and there are several radiating fractures involving the calvarium and the bones of the middle and anterior cranial fossae. The right cerebral hemisphere is distorted and is composed of mushy hemorrhagia partially degenerated substance. The left cerebral hemisphere is moderately well preserved and shows focal subarachnoid hemorrhage. Reconstruction of the wound would indicate that the wound of entrance was in the right temple 9 cm. from the anterior mid-sagittal plane located just above the eyebrow line and 4 cm anterior to the upper border of the right ear. The course of the missile was toward the mid line at an angle of 30 degrees from the front and 60 degrees from the side. Its course appeared to be roughly horizontal. The wound of exit was at the most posterior part of the head in the occipital zone just above the occipital sinnus and 0.5 cm from the mid-sagittal plane. The exit wound was jagged with protruding edges and measures 2.5 x 2.5 cm.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Patty Sue Pritz: Dr. Haynes, Autopsy Report

Examination of the head reveals two wounds, one resembling a bullet wound entrance located 7.5 cm. to left of the anterior mid-line in the left temple. Edges are measures 9 x 9 cm. and is surrounded by large amounts of crusted blood. Edges are smooth and slope inward. The surronding skin, over an area 6 inches in diameter, is located 6 cm.poaterior, at 6 cm. superior to the right ear and measures 3 x 2 cm. with protruding jagged edges. There are no surrounding edges. There are no surrounding powder burns. Examination of the rest of the skin shows many areas of maceration which measure up to 10 cm. in diameter and the skin macerates with tortion.
I'm not sure that last sentences goes with the head wound.

As you can see Dr. Haynes didn't really tell you much....

 

[Sunshine 1950]

When Dr. Haynes was asked questions about the gunshot wounds during the Parsons Preliminary Hearing he said this:

Question: Doctor, would you tell us as to the approximate size of the wound of entrance as to both of these girls?

Answer: Both of them were approximately nine millimeters in size; one was nine by eight in the Restine girl.

Question: Doctor, do you have an opionion as to what might have caused the small variation in size?

Answer: Just the angle--the angle at which the wound of entrance was made.

 

[Finder50]

Can it be determined from the direction of the wounds whether the shooter was right or left handed and how that fits with DB and others?

 

[Sunshine 1950]

B. Blair told me when I talked with her and she told Investigator Estrada as well:
David always carried three guns on his person; 2 - 22 cal. pistols and a 38 cal pitsol in his pants waistband.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Mattie was shot in the right temple. And Patty was shot in the left temple. I don't know if they ever stated what they thought about which the killer was right or left handed. I've always wondered that myself.

 

[ProudSolver]

I am a new member but I am not so new to reading the messages on the murders of Patty and Mattie. First, I would like to offer my condolences to the families. I sincerely hope that this case is solved in the near future.

Second, I would like to post an issue I had with joining Websleuths.com. I originally registered yesterday, received my activation, clicked on the link but was never able to post. After about 4 hours, I received a message that informed me I didn’t meet the “membership qualifications” and I was deleted. I registered again, received the activation email and this time, clicked on the link a little farther down so I could manually enter my user ID and activation code. Almost 12 hours later I received an acknowledgement that I was accepted. It was posted that the Nichols’ family was having problems registering, so maybe this would help.

Although I am from New Mexico, I am not from Carlsbad. I would like to offer my opinions on a few things and ask some questions.

Target Corporation (yes, the Target Stores) does work with LE agencies on homicides. They have their own crime lab (possibly two) in the United States. IF LE would cooperate, I would suggest they contact the Target Crime Lab to see if they would run DNA on any items belonging to the girls, as well as scrapings from under the fingernails. In my honest opinion, this is the first item that should be done.

Has the Governor’s Office been contacted about this case? If so, when and who was the contact there?

Has the NM Attorney General’s Office been contacted? Same as above, when and who was the contact?

Although I have a great deal of knowledge about the criminal law and law enforcement, I am not a certified law enforcement officer. I hope to answer any questions that are within my scope of knowledge. If I do not know the answer, I can find it.

I believe that this message group has a lot of valuable information. This information should be picked up by LE, but I understand they may not be willing for their own reasons. After reviewing the reports, it seems that there is information that is missing, perhaps due to lack of experience from the officers of the time? Perhaps deliberately left out due to corruption? I do not know the answers to those questions. What I do know is that this case is solvable and together we can work towards closure for the families.

 

[Legacy]

17 Aug 1962 Albuquerque Tribune NM Page B-1

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I am a new member but I am not so new to reading the messages on the murders of Patty and Mattie. First, I would like to offer my condolences to the families. I sincerely hope that this case is solved in the near future.

Second, I would like to post an issue I had with joining Websleuths.com. I originally registered yesterday, received my activation, clicked on the link but was never able to post. After about 4 hours, I received a message that informed me I didn’t meet the “membership qualifications” and I was deleted. I registered again, received the activation email and this time, clicked on the link a little farther down so I could manually enter my user ID and activation code. Almost 12 hours later I received an acknowledgement that I was accepted. It was posted that the Nichols’ family was having problems registering, so maybe this would help.

Although I am from New Mexico, I am not from Carlsbad. I would like to offer my opinions on a few things and ask some questions.

Target Corporation (yes, the Target Stores) does work with LE agencies on homicides. They have their own crime lab (possibly two) in the United States. IF LE would cooperate, I would suggest they contact the Target Crime Lab to see if they would run DNA on any items belonging to the girls, as well as scrapings from under the fingernails. In my honest opinion, this is the first item that should be done.

Has the Governor’s Office been contacted about this case? If so, when and who was the contact there?

Has the NM Attorney General’s Office been contacted? Same as above, when and who was the contact?

Although I have a great deal of knowledge about the criminal law and law enforcement, I am not a certified law enforcement officer. I hope to answer any questions that are within my scope of knowledge. If I do not know the answer, I can find it.

I believe that this message group has a lot of valuable information. This information should be picked up by LE, but I understand they may not be willing for their own reasons. After reviewing the reports, it seems that there is information that is missing, perhaps due to lack of experience from the officers of the time? Perhaps deliberately left out due to corruption? I do not know the answers to those questions. What I do know is that this case is solvable and together we can work towards closure for the families.

Welcome to the thread. I personally wrote a letter to the Attorney General's Office several years ago...she had a secretary write a letter back to me explaining this case was out of her jurisdiction...that the office she represented could not get involved.

That is great that Target can help with unsolved cases like this. The problem I see is getting the Eddy County Sheriff's Office to cooperate with getting the DNA tested. They don't want to do anything...and they sure aren't going to listen to me. They told me that much....several times I called the current investigator...Richard Sillas...even wrote him a letter three yrs. ago...still he doesn't answer. So what is the anwer here?

Again welcome and thanks for the information.

 

[ProudSolver]

Welcome to the thread. I personally wrote a letter to the Attorney General's Office several years ago...she had a secretary write a letter back to me explaining this case was out of her jurisdiction...that the office she represented could not get involved.

That is great that Target can help with unsolved cases like this. The problem I see is getting the Eddy County Sheriff's Office to cooperate with getting the DNA tested. They don't want to do anything...and they sure aren't going to listen to me. They told me that much....several times I called the current investigator...Richard Sillas...even wrote him a letter three yrs. ago...still he doesn't answer. So what is the anwer here?

Again welcome and thanks for the information.

Thank you for welcoming me.

Do you think that if several letters, even anonymous letters, were written to ECSO and the State AG's office, maybe even the DA's office for Eddy County, it would help? I can understand there may be some people not wanting their name to be released for fear of retaliation that's why I mention anonymous letters. If these offices are bombarded with phone calls or letters, maybe they will see that there is a significant amount of public interest in this case being solved and will feel they must do something.

I am not familiar with the jurisdictional issues in regards to the U.S. Marshals Service and am curious if they have been contacted in recent years.

 

[justthinkin]

Anne, do you have x-rays of the girls' wounds or diagrams showing the path the bullets took through each girl's brain? Sorry to have to be so graphic.

Is this the complete notation of Mattie's head wounds? I am more than a bit dismayed by the fact there is no real description of the entrance wound or powder burns as a result or lack of them. The doctor's description is extremely incomplete. From what I've read, the exit wounds on a contact gunshot to the head may easily produce a smaller exit wound than entry wound. The doctor indicates this in later statements made after the completion of the autopsy. At least I would guess his statements came following completion of his work.

The reason I've used the plural "head wounds" is that she appears to have been struck from behind. I'm noting the depression left in the posterior right portion of her skull. This is not consistent with a gunshot exit wound as fragments would have been propelled outward rather than inward from an exiting bullet. This is consistent with an injury by blunt force trauma. The doctor performing the autopsy does later describe the bullet's exit wound.
----

The exit wound size is approx. 1 inch by 1 inch.

I'm also a bit concerned about the doctor's use of the word mushy as I would assume this is usually applied to penetrating vs perforating wounds. It may just be that my understanding is lacking here.

Penetrating wounds are notable for leaving an area of mushiness where the bullet expands within the brain; whereas, a perforating wound would tear rapidly through the brain leaving less time to create mushy tissue.

Wish I could be more helpful.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Anne, do you have x-rays of the girls' wounds or diagrams showing the path the bullets took through each girl's brain? Sorry to have to be so graphic.

Is this the complete notation of Mattie's head wounds? I am more than a bit dismayed by the fact there is no real description of the entrance wound or powder burns as a result or lack of them. The doctor's description is extremely incomplete. From what I've read, the exit wounds on a contact gunshot to the head may easily produce a smaller exit wound than entry wound. The doctor indicates this in later statements made after the completion of the autopsy. At least I would guess his statements came following completion of his work.

The reason I've used the plural "head wounds" is that she appears to have been struck from behind. I'm noting the depression left in the posterior right portion of her skull. This is not consistent with a gunshot exit wound as fragments would have been propelled outward rather than inward from an exiting bullet. This is consistent with an injury by blunt force trauma. The doctor performing the autopsy does later describe the bullet's exit wound.
----

The exit wound size is approx. 1 inch by 1 inch.

I'm also a bit concerned about the doctor's use of the word mushy as I would assume this is usually applied to penetrating vs perforating wounds. It may just be that my understanding is lacking here.

Penetrating wounds are notable for leaving an area of mushiness where the bullet expands within the brain; whereas, a perforating wound would tear rapidly through the brain leaving less time to create mushy tissue.

Wish I could be more helpful.

I don't have anything like x-rays. All I have is what I purchased from the ECSO. After I got home I realized they really didn't give me the good stuff. Of course, I wanted what Estrada had done and I feel like he did the best he could do considering the retraints he had on him there at the last. That is I feel like he had...he never told me he had any problems...but I just felt it. I have always felt like Mattie would have put up a fight if she didn't know the person that killed her. She may have been guilable...but if she was afraid she would have ran...I knew because she was my sister and she didn't like scary things. Bill and I use to get in trouble teasing her with lizzards and snakes and such....So I have always felt like she had to been hit in the head or drugged to get her that car.
Hey...you have helped me already...you all are making me look at things that I hadn't thought about....and I do appreciate that.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Thank you for welcoming me.

Do you think that if several letters, even anonymous letters, were written to ECSO and the State AG's office, maybe even the DA's office for Eddy County, it would help? I can understand there may be some people not wanting their name to be released for fear of retaliation that's why I mention anonymous letters. If these offices are bombarded with phone calls or letters, maybe they will see that there is a significant amount of public interest in this case being solved and will feel they must do something.

I am not familiar with the jurisdictional issues in regards to the U.S. Marshals Service and am curious if they have been contacted in recent years.

I don't know if writing letters or anything else will get the Eddy County Sheriff's Dept. off center again...I know that the Nichols lady has written letters and made phone calls...just like me....but who knows if they got a bunch of letters maybe it would help....I guess you can tell I feel completely exasperated at the sheriff's dept. and the FBI and the Attorney Generals Depts. I just can't believe they could ignore any case...let alone this one and not worry about it...but it appears to me that they do that in Eddy County...and get away with it. If I lived in Carlsbad...they would have me in their face alot...but being so far away doesn't help my case.....

 

[Unknownlady]

Sunshine,

I wish you God's speed and express my sympathy.

 

[Legacy]

I cannot find where this triple homicide was solved. This one took place four years before Mattie and Patty were killed. It is believed the women victims were followed from a cafe or bus stop in Carlsbad. You might want to read the second attachment first. I couldn't find where Billy Charles Lloyd, named as a suspect in the first attachment, ever went to trial - but I'll keep looking...

Would his family be able to say whether Nichols could have been in town during this time in 1957? Do you know how long his daughter lived in Carlsbad?

I'll keep looking for a conviction on this case, but have yet to find one - or even a trial...

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I cannot find where this triple homicide was solved. This triple homicide took place four years before Mattie and Patty were killed. It is believed the women victims were followed from a cafe or bus stop in Carlsbad.

Would the Nichols family be able to say whether he could have been in town during this time in 1957? Do you know how long his daughter lived in Carlsbad?

I'll keep looking for a conviction on this case, but have yet to find one - or even a trial...

I think that is one of the unsolved ones that is still on the books for Eddy County Sheriff's Dept. Is this the one where they found the truck driver with two women victims as well?

I don't know much about the Nichols guy...but I can ask Gaynell if you like. She has been out of touch this past two weeks due to a trip...she should be back this coming Monday.

Thanks for the newspaper articles...I haven't found mine yet. hope I do...I have different ones than you do.

I'm fixing to start working on the things you suggested early about who to send letters to regarding the case. I might as well get after it!
thanks,

 

[Legacy]

Yes. There were two female victims and the male truck driver who had stopped to help them either change their flat, or saw they were being attacked by the perp and stopped to help them. The truck driver was shot eight times from one account and left dead at the scene of the flat tire. The women were abducted and driven 29 miles away, shot and left in a grassy area.

The bodies were found fully clothed, except for missing shoes on one of the victims. Mattie's and Patty's bodies were found some distance from each other in the pasture (I need to look up that distance again). These women were also found a distance apart from each other -8 yards apart - strategically placed? Is this a possible MO of a serial killer? On the other hand, is it possible that the girls' killer wanted to make it look as if it were the same person - a copycat to divert attention from themselves?

Robbery was not a motive, as the womens' purses and the truck driver's wallet were at the scene where the truck driver was killed.

I'll post more articles as I can and will look forward to seeing your posts as well.