NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#28

[digitup]

And just on the point of those rumours about missing hands and/or feet (or worse - yes, those rumours are around too) - it's not THAT easy just to "remove the hands". A surgeon could do it, a butcher could do it, and somebody with a meat cleaver could do it. But if just a knife was supposed to be used, then it ain't that easy - it's not the sort of thing you would do quickly. I don't know where those rumours started, but I have heard locals saying things like that with great authority, and "from the horse's mouth", reliable sources, etc etc.

As I said above - we need much more information from the autopsy, rather than speculating.

Hi Doc, what are the possibilities that perhaps Allison was wearing bracelets and that these could have acted as ligatures,due to swelling and cut off circulation at an early stage of rigor mortis.
Rigor mortis (Latin: Rigor—"Stiffness," mortis—"of death") is one of the recognizable signs of death that is caused by a chemical change in the muscles after death, causing the limbs of the corpse to become stiff and difficult to move or manipulate.[1] In humans, it commences after about three to four hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 48 to 60 hours (two and a half days) after death.[2] Warm conditions and physically strenuous activity can speed up the process of rigor mortis.

 

[ozazure]

There are alternate explanations for everything GBC did, because everything he did that we know of was not the actual act of murder.

He may well of seen his wife off for a 10pm walk, but not many spouses turn into bed when the other half doesn't return.

Many people have called their dad at midnight, and I'd say a big chunk of those calls are related to death, births and ill health/accidents. I'd say a lot fewer of us (none!) have called our dad but lied to police that we were sleeping soundly although we did fall asleep believing our spouse was out walking and unfortunately that spouse ends up dead.

I've called regarding life insurance. A decade ago, we are both still kicking.

I've googled many legal terms but none before calling police. The times I've called police I have looked up the local station and rung immediately as a situation arised or called 000 (thefts from cars vs domestic outside the neighbours).

I've pranged my car but never in a 10km per hour area into a wall over a concrete curb. On my way to discuss my missing, soon to be found murdered wife. Then needed 2 nights in hospital. Although I had 3 nights in hospital after they cut babies out of me. And called my Mum at 4am. Didn't lie to anyone about it though, and no one died.

 

[Isabellnecessary]

It would be a reasonable presumption that GBC would know about the Kenmore camera, and would also know that there are no cameras along the direct route as far as I know.

So - why go via Kenmore???

Perhaps he didn't.... perhaps it wasn't him doing the driving...? Perhaps it wasn't that car.... Perhaps it was someone else, in a different car, not yet ID'd?

 

[Trooper]

The defence is entitled to the brief of evidence prior to the committal hearing.

thankyou Actus.. I forget the committal thing in QLD *appreciate the correction*

 

[Isabellnecessary]

<snip> hmm, aspirin, requiring a trip to the chemist, with some alcohol forced in to wash it down chipping a tooth in the process? .. just speculating. I don't know if that could actually do it!

Exactly.

Just speculating too.

 

[Watsonian Institute]

First post on here, but have been reading most of the threads since the event itself.

Several points to make, if you will indulge me:
3. A lot of comments have been made that are quite derogatory, and that could be construed as prejudgement. It would make a juror's task all the more difficult if he or she had read any of these threads. This includes all the comments about his presumed psychological profile and character type - most of those being from people who have never met him.

4. An amazing amount of innuendo (that's not an Italian suppository, by the way) has been written based on perceptions of how certain people spoke, behaved, walked, stood, what clothes they wore, or whatever. Hardly scientific evidence...

5. Many holes in arguments and contradictions have been overlooked.

Apologies for the long-winded first post. It's the accumulation of a lot of lurking and reading, but only just having got my credentials verified with the mods.

Welcome, Dr Watson. Good luck on the forum. I appreciate the logical, reasonable information you provided. I can lend you my Kevlar vest if you require it.

Cheers
WI

 

[CaseClosed]

The part I cannot understand is why he would have rung about the life insurance when he knew the police had declared his house a crime scene and would be obviously watching his movements...Both his and his parents houses had been searched and items had been taken away... Public opinion had him as the main suspect from day one...Yet he rings about the life insurance...Unbelievable!

Just cannot comprehend it...even the bluntest chisel in the toolbox wouldn't do something like that and I don't put him in the category of being dumber than dumber to do such a thing somehow...Doesn't make sense to me...

In the same manner that it wasn't his intellect that controlled his "other urges" (mistresses), it wasn't his intellect that controlled his "post-body-being-found" actions (desperation). IMO.

 

[Detect]

...or for those madly in love with our 'wise one'....a 'Hawkasm' :what:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Greg]

I know this will have been discussed, but because I am away and on my iPhone, I haven't managed to read all posts...Maybe someone else answered NBC's phone on the night...who was staying at their house?...I know I leave mine in the kitchen overnight so I am not tempted to check it if I wake at night. Perhaps another family member...IMO
From what I heard online from tonight's news the Baden-Clay family are refusing to talk to QPS.
Sorry to start Greg off again! Lol

What....did.....you.....say.......PERHAPS ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER......Maybe the family dog??? Cause I sure has hell can't think of anyone else.......

 

[BJsleuth]

What signs of violence are at the house?

Any?

I did read in MSM that the officers who originally attended the BC house noticed things "Weren't right" I did consider that perhaps this is what it meant but there was no elaboration. Perhaps it could just be to do with the car etc? MOO

 

[Detect]

And just on the point of those rumours about missing hands and/or feet (or worse - yes, those rumours are around too) - it's not THAT easy just to "remove the hands". A surgeon could do it, a butcher could do it, and somebody with a meat cleaver could do it. But if just a knife was supposed to be used, then it ain't that easy - it's not the sort of thing you would do quickly. I don't know where those rumours started, but I have heard locals saying things like that with great authority, and "from the horse's mouth", reliable sources, etc etc.

As I said above - we need much more information from the autopsy, rather than speculating.[/QUOTE]
Hi Doc, what are the possibilities that perhaps Allison was wearing bracelets and that these could have acted as ligatures,due to swelling and cut off circulation at an early stage of rigor mortis.
Rigor mortis (Latin: Rigor—"Stiffness," mortis—"of death") is one of the recognizable signs of death that is caused by a chemical change in the muscles after death, causing the limbs of the corpse to become stiff and difficult to move or manipulate.[1] In humans, it commences after about three to four hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 48 to 60 hours (two and a half days) after death.[2] Warm conditions and physically strenuous activity can speed up the process of rigor mortis.[/QUOTE]


Dr Watson, where were you on the night in question//

JOKING!! JOKING !!!

 

[Trooper]

well. Gerard refused to talk too. and look where he is. The QPS are doing the talking for him. I bet he wishes he had a story that beats theirs.

So let silence reign... it's only a matter of time.

 

[CaseClosed]

DR. WATSON - I have one question for you, if I may? Why would a grieving (uhmm) husband contact insurance companies to get the ball rolling regarding life insurance claims (3) BEFORE the body was officially identified as Allison? Wouldn't you say that this is highly suspicious, if he was innocent? Wouldn't one expect a husband to not even think of life insurances at a moment as tragic as the finding of a body, which could be his missing beloved (uhmm) wife?

 

[Mani]

Didn't the news report say that the blood WAS Allison's, as was a blond hair?

BN the news report might have said that but have QPS said that is what I mean? The msm news reports said many things throughout this case and not all of them have been correct IMO.

And as for hair - without the hair follicle they don't have DNA

 

[Detect]

where is he , then? I mean. suggestions are fine, but there has to be some substance to a possible scenario.. Has one ever been suggested? in reality , I mean... not as a sort of chimera, a mills and boon sort of identity. Does he have a name?? a location? a vocation? a height? a colouring? a name? a car? a family? anything?? anything at all? anything empirical that confirms his existence? at all? just one thing?

He has a pair of gardening gloves

 

[DrWatson]

Hi Doc, what are the possibilities that perhaps Allison was wearing bracelets and that these could have acted as ligatures,due to swelling and cut off circulation at an early stage of rigor mortis.

OK - my last post for tonight. Thanks again for the warm welcome - warm in so many different ways... :rocker:

Watsonian Institute - maybe we should form a team? Heheh - and I think I just earned my own kevlar vest, but thanks for the offer :banghead:

OK - the question above is a reasonable question, but ligatures would not remove the extremities. Rigor mortis, and the immersion more so, can cause varying degrees of tissue swelling, but not enough to cause ligature amputation, which is what I think you're asking. Either from bracelets/bangles, or from applied ligatures like Plasticuffs etc. They could cause definite marks, even quite deep tissue separation of the superficial tissues, but not through the bones, for example. And of course, the bangles would still be embedded in there if that were the case, when the body was found.

OK - that's my lot for today. Hope to be back maybe causing a few thoughts and ideas tomorrow, and will be wearing the kevlar vest :seeya:

EDIT: PS - @CaseClosed - just saw your question before signing off. Yes - I agree totally - HIGHLY suspicious, and most inappropriate. As I have said a few times, I think the evidence is pointing very strongly to GBC as being whodunnit. All I'm doing is trying to remain objective, though, and work only with the facts as we know them - or think we know them.

 

[Isabellnecessary]

Ok, so perhaps that GBC thinks ABC is asleep because he's drugged her... so he goes out to meet his lover...

But maybe ABC follows him - hence the two cars and one without headlights... Wasn't that sighted?
Perhaps they have a showdown... hence the screaming that's reported at Brookfield... ABC is killed, somehow. She is transported in the car, she bleeds, or is sick... or both...

GBC and lover dump the body...

GBC had called the father perhaps to watch the children because he had to go out?

 

[Nads]

The part I cannot understand is why he would have rung about the life insurance when he knew the police had declared his house a crime scene and would be obviously watching his movements...Both his and his parents houses had been searched and items had been taken away... Public opinion had him as the main suspect from day one...Yet he rings about the life insurance...Unbelievable!

Just cannot comprehend it...even the bluntest chisel in the toolbox wouldn't do something like that and I don't put him in the category of being dumber than dumber to do such a thing somehow...Doesn't make sense to me...

Are you saying someone pretended to be him and rang from his phone?

 

[Davita]

And for those who suggested I put some alternative scenarios and questions:

1. What if ABC did go out to meet somebody, and that somebody - as yet unnamed - did the dastardly deed? We don't know for sure WHAT cars were seen, where, and by whom. The police haven't released any details about what info they have in that regard.

2. What was the significance of the screams heard down by the park along Rafting Ground Road? The timescale would fit. And nobody has come forward to discount those as being just people mucking about. Or any other mischief....

3. Don't overlook the fact that the most direct route from the BC house to Kholo Creek is along Rafting Ground Rd to Moggill Road then turn right. Very few - if any - locals from Brookfield would even think of going all the way back into Kenmore, around the roundabout, then all the way out again along Moggill Road....

Yup - once again, I agree that the circumstantial evidence points very strongly towards GBC as being the guilty party, with or without assistance.

But there ARE alternatives, as unlikely as they may seem.

Of course, if GBC's iPhone happened to have GPS location services running in the background (lots of apps use it, even if you may not know about it) and a GPS record showing his phone going to Kholo Creek were to be uncovered, then that WOULD be even stronger evidence. But it would still only show that his phone was there - not necessarily that HE was. At least - that's how a defence lawyer would put it....

And yes - I have a plenty thick enough skin to cop criticism. Don't worry about offending If I stir a beehive, I'd expect to get stung...

what about the blood in his car that belongs to the victim?

 

[Keentoknow]

What....did.....you.....say.......PERHAPS ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER......Maybe the family dog??? Cause I sure has hell can't think of anyone else.......

Greg we cannot mention Dogs because during the week we could hear Troopers dog barking here at Banksia Beach.:floorlaugh: