NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[CaseClosed]

What I still don't understand is why the defence was not (apparently) provided with details of the COD, even if it is only for a Bail Hearing. How can anybody accuse someone of murder and not tell the opposing side the manner in which she died. How can any defence team do their work without actually knowing how someone was killed? Doesn't make sense to me. The only explanation I can find is that the COD is at this stage undetermined.

 

[BJsleuth]

Another theory... pretty graphic though.

I also wondered if she came home from the hairdressers, ran a nice warm bath and then Gerard came in and held her under while she scratched at him trying to be released.

Maybe he grabbed her by the hair on the back of her head and pushed her face downwards hard in the water and chipped her tooth on the bottom of the bath and broke her nose which gushed with blood. Once drowned pulled her out of the bath, wrapped her bleeding head in towels laid her on her back while he dressed her in walking gear. While the blood pooled to the back of the nose/throat?

Then put her in the back of the car, and the towels became loose and the combination of the water in the lungs and the blood from the back of the nose/throat came streaming out all over the back of the car.

Hopefully if this is the case, as the doc says, they will find chlorinated bath water in the lungs instead of creek water.

Chlorine evaporates very quickly and diatoms form (algae). The diatom test is the test which used to be performed to determine if it was fresh water or brackish water so it's unreliable.

 

[DrWatson]

Yes, it doesn't.

Also - Doc, given the amount of luminol showing blood in the car - does it look like a lot of blood to your eyes?

Mani - I'm not an expert on blood spatter patterns, nor on Luminol reactions. I guess it LOOKS like a fair amount of blood, but that may be quite deceptive if it's been spread about with cleaning attempts etc. And if there is something else also reacting with the Lulminol.

I'd prefer to leave those opinions to someone who knows more about blood spatter patterns etc than I do. I see my fair share of them, in the course of my career, of course, but it is notoriously difficult to assess the volume of blood loss.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Not such a great idea, but a great thought.

reasons -

1. sunflowers require staking.
2. they are not native and could turn into yet another exotic weed choking our waterways.

Dear Sapphire

You've raised important points.

As well as being an amateur sleuth, I'm a weed nazi with a particular loathing of declared noxious weeds. Although I've never seen outbreaks of feral sunflowers, I checked the online data base of QLD noxious weeds. Sunflowers don't get a mention.

Sunflowers are also good food for grain eating native birds.


There might be hope for a sunflower grove for Allison yet.

 

[DrWatson]

Chlorine evaporates very quickly and diatoms form (algae). The diatom test is the test which used to be performed to determine if it was fresh water or brackish water so it's unreliable.

The water that flows down Kholo creek is actually very muddy, especially after high rainfall. There would be a lot of organic content, not just diatoms.

One other complicating factor out here at Brookfield is that a lot of us are on tank water, not town water. Now the BC house does have town water available, but they may have tank water as well out of choice. Our tanks here at home have crystal clear water, but I'm sure that if looked at under a microscope, there would be all sorts of stuff in there off the roof and gutters, despite the filters.

The good news is that the tank water hasn't done us any harm - yet...

 

[FirstTimer]

Which GBC supporters are you talkin' bout First Timer?

It was the link to a blog for supporters of GBC being innocent until proven guilty by Barram5 on the page 28. I read through some, not all, of the blog posts. Most, instead of looking at all the facts, just seem to focus on all the rumours and gossip, and I do not mean just on WS, rather than looking at what has been confirmed. They find it easy to attack gossip, but stay clear of the facts.

Link below (thanks Barram5).

http://kikiandtea.com/2012/06/gerard...proven-guilty/

Cheers,

 

[BJsleuth]

The water that flows down Kholo creek is actually very muddy, especially after high rainfall. There would be a lot of organic content, not just diatoms.

One other complicating factor out here at Brookfield is that a lot of us are on tank water, not town water. Now the BC house does have town water available, but they may have tank water as well out of choice. Our tanks here at home have crystal clear water, but I'm sure that if looked at under a microscope, there would be all sorts of stuff in there off the roof and gutters, despite the filters.

The good news is that the tank water hasn't done us any harm - yet...

Ahh yes, good point about the mud. I grew up on tank water. My grandma was 96 when she died, she only ever drank tank water and her three daughters are nearly 100 so it never hurt them either!

 

[Woof]

I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this, but one of the reasons I'm disgusted with GBC is because his blogs and public life were all about 'integrity, honesty' and the like, and his family all all Christians who value so-called 'traditional' marriage, One Man, One Woman, for Life, etc. With that in mind, his dirty little affair, ending it, then restarting it despite saying it was over, having other women as well, is truly disgraceful behaviour by his own standards. I am judging him by the standards he and his family use to judge others.

Makes bile rise in my stomach.

 

[Karo]

What I still don't understand is why the defence was not (apparently) provided with details of the COD, even if it is only for a Bail Hearing. How can anybody accuse someone of murder and not tell the opposing side the manner in which she died. How can any defence team do their work without actually knowing how someone was killed? Doesn't make sense to me. The only explanation I can find is that the COD is at this stage undetermined.

I am wondering if they do really know but have neglected to get it in print, so as to keep it from the defence for now, hoping to get more evidence on the killer, less circumstantial evidence.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

Doc Watson, ...if someone was asphyxiated using a pillow could that be detected in an autopsy?

 

[GlobeArtichoke]

Just a thought to put out there..if linking together some of the rumours etc.. Firstly with a facetimecall, you do need wifi for this? but it can be done anywhere? COuld it be possible NBC was at the roundabout at this time when the face call occured? I know NBC being at the roundabout was somewhat of a rumour, though it was told to us by 2 people, one of whom is a verified poster.. Also linking in the person on QPS facebook who mentioned seeing something 'odd' at the roundabout at that time.. I wonder.. and I am just wondering out loud.. if this was pre planned, was NBC waiting there for the call..for the deed to be done? Not saying this is my theory, just putting the thoughts out there.

That thought had crossed my mind too. There may be a cafe or other business nearby that he frequents for which he has the wifi password.

Alternatively, he could use his iPhone as a personal wifi hotspot using 3G (acts like a modem) for another device such as an iPad to run FaceTime on. Or he could use a dongle for either device to stream data via 3G, and therefore have ability to use FaceTime...
...I think, please someone correct me if I'm wrong. I recall other posters have suggested the last two scenarios as being possible, and in the context of a call being made or received at Kholo Creek.

 

[Isabellnecessary]

Doc Watson, ...if someone was asphyxiated using a pillow could that be detected in an autopsy?

I know that the inhalation of fibres from the pillow can happen ... and can be seen under a microscope...

 

[BJsleuth]

Yes, it doesn't.

Also - Doc, given the amount of luminol showing blood in the car - does it look like a lot of blood to your eyes?

Mani, it's a contact smear. What that means is that something which is blood soaked, presumably part of the body, has touched that area and then drizzled down. It's not a huge amount of blood. It doesn't necessarily mean that the area was bleeding or had been bleeding, though it can mean that. From the pattern, I would take a guess and say the blood was in her hair. I don't know if you've ever seen on a train or car door where someone has pressed their greasy hair against the window? It is a remarkably similar pattern. How I think the blood got there is that it was from an internal source, such as post mortem purging and not from external trauma.

The fluid which seeps from a dead body is called purge fluid. It is a blood stained discharge which exudes from the nose and mouth it is caused by a build up of gases in the body as part of the decomposition process which starts almost immediately. The gases build up to a point where it forces the fluid out. Moving the body after death can also force this fluid out more rapidly. It would have to be analysed to determined if that's what it was or if it was purely blood, say from an internal trauma or event.

 

[GlobeArtichoke]

Nope. Highly unlikely. A BLOW from the forehead may do it, but not biting, unless there is already a fault line in the tooth, eg if a partial crown filling had been present and got knocked out. But again - any chip caused by an IMPACT would also be likely to cause soft tissue damage to the lip, unless the mouth was open but the teeth closed - like a "pumpkin" grin on Halloween. An expression known as "rictus".

A tooth can chip by having a hard object pulled OUT of the mouth. I did this to my two front teeth as a child by pulling down on a plastic light switch knob (the long rope variety that hangs from the ceiling) in the bathroom while my hands were busy holding onto my towel. A stupid thing to do, but instant, painless, and without much force. I've had to have them filed and capped.

Could choking on a large hard object, followed by aspirating vomitus (breathing in own vomit) and subsequent suffocation be the cause of death? After death, facial muscles might have tightened enough to keep jaw clamped, making removal of the object difficult and leading to a chipped tooth.

But such a scenario might be unlikely if there were no signs of fingernail scratches around the mouth from the desperate need to remove the gag.

Just a thought. MOO.

 

[DrWatson]

Doc Watson, ...if someone was asphyxiated using a pillow could that be detected in an autopsy?

Usually, yes. Maybe not down to the fact of it being a pillow as opposed to a cushion, a coat, or a doona - but the asphyxia would usually be detectable.

 

[Rational]

Dear Sapphire

You've raised important points.

As well as being an amateur sleuth, I'm a weed nazi with a particular loathing of declared noxious weeds. Although I've never seen outbreaks of feral sunflowers, I checked the online data base of QLD noxious weeds. Sunflowers don't get a mention.

Sunflowers are also good food for grain eating native birds.


There might be hope for a sunflower grove for Allison yet.

Thanks BE evn though I am not a weed nazi :floorlaugh: I had a look too and as long as it is not a Japanese sunflower (apparently a noxious weed) it should be fine. I think it is a beautiful idea and a lovely lasting gesture!!

 

[squizzey1]

I am wondering if they do really know but have neglected to get it in print, so as to keep it from the defence for now, hoping to get more evidence on the killer, less circumstantial evidence.

Thats exactly what i am thinking because a very good source told me thay know COD which i have posted before

 

[BJsleuth]

"A post-mortem of the body revealed no external injuries except a chipped tooth", Mr Davis said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tr...-insurance-money/story-fnat7jnn-1226405945562

Which is why I think it was from an internal source.

 

[DrWatson]

A tooth can chip by having a hard object pulled OUT of the mouth. I did this to my two front teeth as a child by pulling down on a plastic light switch knob (the long rope variety that hangs from the ceiling) in the bathroom while my hands were busy holding onto my towel. A stupid thing to do, but instant, painless, and without much force. I've had to have them filed and capped.

Could choking on a large hard object, followed by aspirating vomitus (breathing in own vomit) and subsequent suffocation be the cause of death? After death, facial muscles might have tightened enough to keep jaw clamped, making removal of the object difficult and leading to a chipped tooth.

But such a scenario might be unlikely if there were no signs of fingernail scratches around the mouth from the desperate need to remove the gag.

Just a thought. MOO.

Yes - quite correct about having an object pulled OUT of the mouth.

But I'm not sure we can speculate on what large, hard object she would have had forced into her mouth, which would then cause tooth chipping on the way in or out.

The thing that immediately sprung to mind for me was a bottle - either liquid (eg spirit of some type) or tablets, for example. But again, the APPARENT toxicology tests being negative would tend to count against that. It was just speculation on my part as to the cause of a chipped tooth.

As said previously - that tooth could have been chipped for some time.

Just trying to think logically.

 

[Rational]

On another note in relation to the scratches, why would GBC have scratches on his torso? Was he maybe undressed or at least without a top at the time of the murder? Or could it be that he was caught in an uncompromising position somewhere with TM and Allison went at him, and the scratches came about not atthe time of the murder but maybe the day before? Just thinking aloud here.