"no red flags"

[Chezhire]

There was a red flag by the second night with no Caylee and no KC, as Caylee had never been out of the house for 2 nights in a row in almost 3 years.

There was a red flag the very first time that CA asked to speak to Caylee and was refused.

Maybe KC was a good mother in the early days, but CA knows that those days were long gone. CA even thought KC to be a sociopath. Red flag.

July 3rd. "My Caylee is Missing". Red flag.

Of course there were red flags, but no one thinks MURDER.

There was no reason to think the child was dead, until July 15th.
Who would think that their daughter isn't letting them talk to their grandchild because she is dead? CA thought it was one of KC's games and she was just being mean because she could be, she had Caylee.

So, yes there were unusual things happening, but who would think murder?

That thought must take a long time to sink in and I think we saw CA when she broke. She was like walking death. She is revived and today stated that she wants to know what happened. I don't doubt for a minute that she wanted to die. But, she has found reason to go on living as has GA, despite knowing that their grandchild was murdered and their daughter may be sentenced to execution. They have decided to see this to the end, together, no matter how painful it is. They want to know what happened and I hope that their marriage will grow stronger. Forged in steel and all that.

But I just don't think that CA or GA had any reason to think that KC would kill Caylee. It was not even a thought.

I hope LA can have a good life without being branded because he happens to be KC's brother. How many women are out there who want to marry a guy whose sister is on death row for murdering her baby? I think the line is short.

Execution ruins families for generations. The stigma of execution is carried far into the future for the entire extended family thus the murderer does even more damage, by shaming her family long after she is executed. It serves no real purpose to kill her. Life. Let her grow up and old and die on God's time, even if in prison. She needs a long time, maybe a lifetime, to reflect and do pennance.

Bolded by me, Chezhire

Part of the problems I see on this thread is that posts are lumping what Cindy knew together w/ what George knew between June 15 and July 15. George knew what that car smelled like as early as June 24, 2008, when he stood right next to it when he and Casey argued about the gas cans, which smell should have raised some BIG RED FLAGS in his mind...

Snipped [from DotsEyes, above].

Exactly! CA is not saying that she was never concerned or suspicious about where KC and Caylee were or why KC always had an excuse for not letting her speak to Caylee. She's saying that there was no red flag between June 16 and July 15 that would make her think Caylee was dead.

Is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say that if their son or daughter started avoiding them, or giving excuses why they couldn't see a grandchild, that this would make you suspect that the child had been murdered by your son/daughter? I'll be amazed if there is!

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it must be hell for the A's. They will most probably forever torture themselves with the 'what ifs' and the 'if onlys', but I don't see how any of KC's behaviour before June 16 can be said to indicate that she was a murderer-in-waiting, or that the A's should have been able to recognise this. As for June 16 and after, the tragic fact is that Caylee was already gone before the first 'red flag' had had time to unfurl.

Bolded by me, Chezhire

Though I don't disagree with the above posts closing statement, that by the time the first "red flag" had appeared in the time frame June 15 - July 15, Caylee was alreay deceased, I disagree with the above statement that "she [Cindy] is saying that there was no red flag between June 15 and July 15" to the extent that Cindy was speaking for she and George, as George knew something was terribly wrong as of June 24, 2008, at the very latest.

I agree Devon.

There was nothing during that first month to even make them think that Caylee had "disappeared" i.e. out of Casey's possession, much less been murdered (by anyone.)

I'm not sure about Casey actually being the murderer, it will have to be proved at trial. Of course I know how many people have already latched on very firmly to that theory and it's been repeated so much that a lot of people consider it a fact, and I can't rule out the possibility entirely myself, but we'll have to see at trial if there really is the evidence showing it had to be Casey as murderer, not a boyfriend or whoever else. I know most people's views here, no need to bog the board down with all the theory regarding Casey as murderer and so on, we all know the theory very well, we can return to the topic at hand, but just thanking you for your post about the A's never dreaming during the first 31 days that Caylee had come to harm at all, or even for some time after that, much less by Casey's hand!

Bolded and underlined by me, Chezhire.

Again, I disagree with the use of the word "them," as bolded, as George A. knew what that car smelled like on June 24, 2008, at the very latest.

As far as the above post's bolded & underlined comment that "...we'll have to see at trial if there really is the evidence showing it had to be Casey as murderer, not a boyfriend or whoever else...," this is an incorrect statement in terms of the law and the State's burden. The State simly has to put on evidence sufficient to convince a jury of 12 that Casey did it - the State does NOT have to disprove that others, such as "...a boyfriend or whoever else,..." didn't do it. In fact, it's Casey's defense team's job to try to offer some sort of defense, along the lines of either sticking to the "Casey couldn't have done it & here's why" plotline or the "Someone else did it and here's why" plotline.

 

[Pink Panther]

No red flags huh? I'm sorry for Jesse for finding himself in this mess but where the heck were these people (the Grunds and the A's) when KC tried to dupe them all that Jesse was Caylee's father only to find out that he WASN'T? Isn't that a HUGE friggin' RED FLAG? That this pretend woman was willing to dupe an innocent guy that she'd just met into such a huge HUGE responsibility with her lies? THAT wasn't a HUGE friggin' RED FLAG? For both families?

(I'm sorry. I guess I must have been dropped off here from a different planet...)

MOO

 

[Searchfortruth]

It was my understanding that one of the first people that Casey gave the BP story to was LP's nephew. I think she was trying to make her move on him with the dinner cooking and everything, trying to explain what really happened w/ Caylee. It's amazing that she would tell this change of story to a young man she hardly knows, but not to anyone in LE...she doesn't quit does she ? They are going to have to keep an eye on her, with the male guards, in prison.

 

[Chezhire]

No red flags huh? I'm sorry for Jesse for finding himself in this mess but where the heck were these people (the Grunds and the A's) when KC tried to dupe them all that Jesse was Caylee's father only to find out that he WASN'T? Isn't that a HUGE friggin' RED FLAG? That this pretend woman was willing to dupe an innocent guy that she'd just met into such a huge HUGE responsibility with her lies? THAT wasn't a HUGE friggin' RED FLAG? For both families?

(I'm sorry. I guess I must have been dropped off here from a different planet...)

MOO

No, you're right, it's a red flag to me, for sure. What would it flag? An untrustworthy person, for starters. Would it make me think that the woman was going to commit murder? Probably not. I've heard of other women doing this type of lying re: their children's paternity, but I just haven't personally heard of someone who lied about that and then went on to kill her children.

 

[Chezhire]

It was my understanding that one of the first people that Casey gave the BP story to was LP's nephew. I think she was trying to make her move on him with the dinner cooking and everything, trying to explain what really happened w/ Caylee. It's amazing that she would tell this change of story to a young man she hardly knows, but not to anyone in LE...she doesn't quit does she ? They are going to have to keep an eye on her, with the male guards, in prison.

Videotape,videotape,videotape...

 

[Sunshine52]

It should have been a "red flag" when KC stole money from Jessie and Cindy's reply was..."well she only did it once"....no consequences as usual...Does she feel the same way about Caylee's murder???...Well she only did it once.

 

[Pink Panther]

No, you're right, it's a red flag to me, for sure. What would it flag? An untrustworthy person, for starters. Would it make me think that the woman was going to commit murder? Probably not. I've heard of other women doing this type of lying re: their children's paternity, but I just haven't personally heard of someone who lied about that and then went on to kill her children.

Agreed...But this simple little tale keeps getting glossed over as "nothing" and it isn't. It's HUGE! She tried to con her own family and an innocent family into believing that he (Jesse) was the Dad - knowing full well that he wasn't. I have never been able to get past this. I think that it demonstrates that she had no conscience or morals and the fact that her own family makes nothing of it - speaks volumes! Lying, manipulative bunch - all of them. Any other family would have been mortified.

MOO

 

[Searchfortruth]

No red flags huh? I'm sorry for Jesse for finding himself in this mess but where the heck were these people (the Grunds and the A's) when KC tried to dupe them all that Jesse was Caylee's father only to find out that he WASN'T? Isn't that a HUGE friggin' RED FLAG? That this pretend woman was willing to dupe an innocent guy that she'd just met into such a huge HUGE responsibility with her lies? THAT wasn't a HUGE friggin' RED FLAG? For both families?

(I'm sorry. I guess I must have been dropped off here from a different planet...)

MOO

Yes, HUGE red flag as to Casey's "character". From what Richard G. said in his interview, Cindy and George knew Jesse wasn't the father, before the paternity tests came back. They should all be ashamed, but I don't think they know the meaning of the word. How Mr. and Mrs. G let this slide I have no idea, but I would assume they loved Caylee regardless...good people, IMO.

 

[Sunshine52]

My bold above-

Here is a definition of red flag:

red flag
n.
1. A warning signal.
2. Something that demands attention or provokes an irritated reaction.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Cindy did say on The Early Show that she had no red flags until July 15th. That means she had no concerns or suspicions until then. Noone ever said a red flag indicates death to Cindy. And I did not hear Cindy say "that there was no red flag between June 16 and July 15 that would make her think Caylee was dead." Please provide a link if I just missed that.

Here is what she did say on The Early Show April 22, 2009:

Q – And you, Cindy, you had never gone more than 2 days without seeing Caylee, and yet, you didn’t report her missing until 30 days later. Why is that?

A - Because she was with her mom. And I believe that, you know, she was with her mom. And I’ve never had a reason not to trust Casey with Caylee. You know, Casey, um, made Caylee her priority and it was very evident anybody that ever saw Casey and Caylee together that Caylee was number one for Casey. So I never had a reason. I mean, Casey was Caylee’s, I mean, Casey’s Caylee’s mom. Caylee belonged to her. I’m just a grandmother. You know, there’s a lot of grandmothers that don’t know every, you know, everything about their grandchildren. Just because she lived with me doesn’t mean that, you know, Casey wasn’t in charge of Caylee.

Q – Even though there had been, and this is well documented, times when she had lied to you, you never once thought something is not quite right with the story she is telling us.

A – No, there was never a red flag – until July 15th.


Cindy was asked why she did not report Caylee missing in 30 days and if she ever once thought something was not quite right with Casey's story during this time. Cindy replied there was never a red flag which we all know is a complete falsehood documented by Cindy's previous words and actions. I agree it's highly unlikely a parent would make a leap of reasoning from a just not right story and extended period of time not seeing their grandchild to murder. But when Cindy says there were NO red flags until July 15th, she is absolutely lying.

Except for the fact that KC and Caylee were living under C&G's roof...they were supporting her and Caylee. If C&G had any parenting skills they would have demanded certain behaviors for her living under their roof. This crap about "I'm only a grandmother" is ludicrous. She should have been required to do something for living there...contribute to the household in some way. George in his depo basically refused to answer that question...because I'm sure she never contributed anything but bills.

 

[Chezhire]

Agreed...But this simple little tale keeps getting glossed over as "nothing" and it isn't. It's HUGE! She tried to con her own family and an innocent family into believing that he (Jesse) was the Dad - knowing full well that he wasn't. I have never been able to get past this. I think that it demonstrates that she had no conscience or morals and the fact that her own family makes nothing of it - speaks volumes! Lying, manipulative bunch - all of them. Any other family would have been mortified.

MOO

I understand you. It was a horrible thing to do. It really was, and it does reflect upon her lack of conscience and morals. I just have a funny feeling that if we dug deep enough, we'd find it wasn't the first time she'd made up some horrible lie that affected someone outside of her own family...I think she'd been at it a long time. Course, we're all reflecting upon this looking backwards in time, and hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Pink Panther]

Hey Pinkie...don't hold back now...tell us how you really feel...LOL

LOL. I've stayed in "lurk" mode for a long time now...But my patience in all of this is drawing very thin.

 

[travelgal]

Hi Dots...while I respect your opinion I must disagree with a vengeance. I agree that George and Cindy never, in their wildest dreams, imagined that Casey was sick enough to MURDER Caylee. But, in my opinion they knew she was sick. They knew she was a liar and a thief. They knew she was deceitful and I am convinced that Cindy especially knew that it wasn't fit for Caylee to spend the night away from home with Casey. Whenever Casey tried to sleep away from the house Cindy called her and asked her to bring Caylee home. Now....why would she do that if she thought Caylee would be safe with Casey?? Furthermore, Cindy told Ryan and Lord knows who else that she "felt" Casey was a sociopath. Cindy told her friends and coworkers that she didn't trust Casey and she was thinking about seeking custody of Caylee. Cindy's words to Tony Lazzaro were that she hoped he had lots of money because Casey would rob him blind. (Or something to that effect)In my opinion she had worse things to say about her daughter than she did about Jesse Grund, the person she is now trying to throw under the bus.

So in my opinion....did Cindy think Casey was capable of murder/ Maybe not.....but she had SERIOUS concerns for the welfare and safety of her grandaughter....RED FLAGS...in my mind I think Cindy feels like she is eventually going to heal if she continues to do damage control and support her daughter in this ficticious(sp)way. Truly though she is just continuing to punish herself, Casey and her entire family. I think in her sick mind she thinks if she builds Casey back up with all this praise she will earn her mental freedom. If she could only convince the world that Casey is perfect and her family is the perfect all american family....then she will be the winner and her daughter will prevail. In reality only the truth will set her free. And I for one would be the first to applaud her if she could just for once tell the truth and give Caylee some justice.

Ya know a lot of people have done things to bring me sorrow over the course of my life. I have many personal stories that I have not yet been able to open up about here on this forum. I am a survivor of Familial rape and abuse. There were a lot of tears shed that I can't get back, innocence taken that I so deserved to have. I had hatred...unspeakable revolting disgust. I never thought I would be free from all of that pain. But 2 words from someone that REALLY meant it, someone that really wanted to be free of the pain they had caused me and MEANT it..made all the difference. .....the truth can make all the difference.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

AMAZING POST, ELLE!! :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

AMAZING POST, ELLE!! :blowkiss:

Hi Dots...while I respect your opinion I must disagree with a vengeance. I agree that George and Cindy never, in their wildest dreams, imagined that Casey was sick enough to MURDER Caylee. But, in my opinion they knew she was sick. They knew she was a liar and a thief. They knew she was deceitful and I am convinced that Cindy especially knew that it wasn't fit for Caylee to spend the night away from home with Casey. Whenever Casey tried to sleep away from the house Cindy called her and asked her to bring Caylee home. Now....why would she do that if she thought Caylee would be safe with Casey?? Furthermore, Cindy told Ryan and Lord knows who else that she "felt" Casey was a sociopath. Cindy told her friends and coworkers that she didn't trust Casey and she was thinking about seeking custody of Caylee. Cindy's words to Tony Lazzaro were that she hoped he had lots of money because Casey would rob him blind. (Or something to that effect)In my opinion she had worse things to say about her daughter than she did about Jesse Grund, the person she is now trying to throw under the bus.

So in my opinion....did Cindy think Casey was capable of murder/ Maybe not.....but she had SERIOUS concerns for the welfare and safety of her grandaughter....RED FLAGS...in my mind I think Cindy feels like she is eventually going to heal if she continues to do damage control and support her daughter in this ficticious(sp)way. Truly though she is just continuing to punish herself, Casey and her entire family. I think in her sick mind she thinks if she builds Casey back up with all this praise she will earn her mental freedom. If she could only convince the world that Casey is perfect and her family is the perfect all american family....then she will be the winner and her daughter will prevail. In reality only the truth will set her free. And I for one would be the first to applaud her if she could just for once tell the truth and give Caylee some justice.

Ya know a lot of people have done things to bring me sorrow over the course of my life. I have many personal stories that I have not yet been able to open up about here on this forum. I am a survivor of Familial rape and abuse. There were a lot of tears shed that I can't get back, innocence taken that I so deserved to have. I had hatred...unspeakable revolting disgust. I never thought I would be free from all of that pain. But 2 words from someone that REALLY meant it, someone that really wanted to be free of the pain they had caused me and MEANT it..made all the difference. .....the truth can make all the difference.

:clap::clap::clap::clap: AWESOME POST ELLE. :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

LOL. I've stayed in "lurk" mode for a long time now...But my patience in all of this is drawing very thin.

I go trade places with you and go into lurk for a bit.
Cant wait for the court case to start.
I do hope it is not a TV circus.

 

[Sunshine52]

LOL. I've stayed in "lurk" mode for a long time now...But my patience in all of this is drawing very thin.

Believe me...I'm widya!!!

 

[Ripley007]

Forget about "red flags" What about the yellow, warning flags???? (By the time it's red, it's too late!)