NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #4

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Isabelle said:
Agree. Consider how many truly documented mentally ill persons committed a crime of this magnitude. Not many at all. I hate seeing him lumped into a group of people who would never do this sort of thing just because they are mentally ill. Unless it is document to be so, the subject should be dropped.
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Imo At this point in time the human being most qualified to share info about him to the world is someone living with him -- the gf

It is documented that bio dad had been evaluated and determined to be high risk as it relates to suicide.

Las Vegas shooter's girlfriend to investigators: I worried about his mental stability

Las Vegas Shooter's Girlfriend Describes His Disturbing Behavior

investigators suggest Paddock's mental state was deteriorating in the weeks ...

. told investigators that Paddock had been exhibiting "mental health symptoms. .

Many other people who have had interactions with him have used descriptors such as strange unnerving irritable paranoid anti social odd etc etc etc

In broad sweeping terms I would conclude it is not "out" there for a dialog about mental stability when discussing a person who :

placed machine guns all around his hotel room,

wired his room with cameras,

set up recording devices outside his door

fired 200 bullets out a door attempting to hit one security guard

barricaded the stairwell in a public place

had been buying guns from four different states

smashed out windows of his hotel room

was calculating bullet speeds and landing spots

............and proceeded to behave as if he were on a battlefield in a war - while ending up in a pool of blood after inserting a pistol down his throat.

Imo I think mental health falls into a valid possibility as it relates to what has transpired.

moo

All imo , indicators that the reality is , thus far, mental illness is at the top of the list

moo

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21997...lfriend-i-worried-about-his-mental-stability/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephe...lfriend-i-worried-about-his-mental-stability/
 
CARIIS said:
At this point in time the human being most qualified to share info about him to the world is the gf

I would entertain the idea that someone living with someone would be a solid source of info to explore

It is documented that bio dad had been evaluated

[h=1]Las Vegas shooter's girlfriend to investigators: I worried about his mental stability[/h]
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Agree but is she a 'low information' gf

don't know nuffin, didn't see nuffin- most common quote from witnesses to crimes

also still believe she did as told. probably was NOT allowed in the gun room

probably was not allowed to ask questions

Betcha that car he bought for 'her' is still in his name
 
My point stands. Your argument is not analogous. Aircraft regulations would make it harder for him just to cruise into a crowd of people. A large truck — same. He wouldn't have made it as far as the 20,000 guests at the festival. Explosives — his car was some distance from the event, so same.

Unless your point is there should be more regulations, then I don't disagree with you. He wouldn't have killed dozens and injured hundreds if he used any other handheld weapon other than a firearm. For example, nunchucks, or a knife, or a bayonet, or a spear, or an axe, or a katana, or a war hammer, or a shank, or a bullhorn. Whatever. In this case. Under these circumstances.

m00c0w said:
He certainly could have if he used the explosives he amassed, or the plane he knew how to fly, or a large truck as we've seen in Europe...
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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by OkieChance
Hmmmmmm. People kill people, true. Can't argue with that!

Not sure, though, that SP would have caused quite so much carnage if he had waded into that crowd of 20,000 people wielding a pair of nunchucks. And I 100% agree with your plea on finding ways to identify potentially homicidal people before they attempt to commit mass murder.

 
THE VOICE OF CLARITY. Thank you, CARIIS.

:loveyou:


CARIIS said:
At some point in time we might need to take a look at why we are the most violent industrialized nation on the planet.

We obviously are doing something wrong
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human said:
Would it kill or injure almost 600 people? No. Kill 58?Hard to say. It has that parachute to slow it down. I am sure he at one tine could fly any brand of small plane.

How many have other aircraft killed such as at air shows? Too lazy to look up. Those are accidents
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The brand of the aircraft has no implications in terms of piloting one .

It is determined by rating of plane surrounding things like weight number f passengers number of engine distances etc etc

He did get his instrument landing cert - which means he would be able to fly in the dark , relying on instruments only.

Until a pilot does that, in general aviation they can only fly in see and be seen environments.

Daylight minimum visual requirements etc etc

JFK Jr made some errors as it relates to these criteria.
 
OkieChance said:
My point stands. Your argument is not analogous. Aircraft regulations would make it harder for him just to cruise into a crowd of people. A large truck — same. He wouldn't have made it as far as the 20,000 guests at the festival. Explosives — his car was some distance from the event, so same.

Unless your point is there should be more regulations, then I don't disagree with you. He wouldn't have killed dozens and injured hundreds if he used any other handheld weapon other than a firearm. For example, nunchucks, or a knife, or a bayonet, or a spear, or an axe, or a katana, or a war hammer, or a shank, or a bullhorn. Whatever. In this case. Under these circumstances.




quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by OkieChance
Hmmmmmm. People kill people, true. Can't argue with that!

Not sure, though, that SP would have caused quite so much carnage if he had waded into that crowd of 20,000 people wielding a pair of nunchucks. And I 100% agree with your plea on finding ways to identify potentially homicidal people before they attempt to commit mass murder.
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Aircraft regulations would not have prevented him from taking off at McCarren right next to the festival, and just banking into a crowd of people. Your other two points don't make a lot of sense. The Nice attacker in France killed more than this guy with just a box truck. His explosives were in his car, in this instance. But if he did not have access to guns, he could have used the explosives in a different location, just like you made the nunchuck analogy. My point is that even if he was restricted from buying any of these firearms at all, he still had multiple methods at his disposal of killing just as many, if not more.
 
enelram said:
Agree but is she a 'low information' gf

don't know nuffin, didn't see nuffin- most common quote from witnesses to crimes

also still believe she did as told. probably was NOT allowed in the gun room

probably was not allowed to ask questions

Betcha that car he bought for 'her' is still in his name
Click to expand...

mental instability is an observable entity -- she would not need his permission (for lack of a better term!) to provide authentic data as it relates to his behaviors feelings and thinking patterns moo
 
m00c0w said:
.223 can be relatively cheap, depending on where you buy it and how much you buy. Military surplus ammo is a favorite, and it's widely available and pretty inexpensive per round when buying in bulk. You'd probably be looking at $200-$250 per thousand rounds. Maybe not cheap to someone who doesn't shop ammo a lot, but it's definitely one of the cheaper rifle rounds.

Some rifles do come in cases, especially the more expensive ones. A lot of handguns come in cases. I would just ascribe him not using cases to the fact he was trying to be discreet, and an AR-15 (or three) can be broken down easily and packed in a small suitcase.
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I wasn't thinking about the type of ammo specifically, but you are right. I was just thinking overall 2500+ round of ammo wouldn't be cheap per se.

I'm sure very expensive ones do. And yes, I know my handgun did so I imagine most do. But my husband has a big gun safe full of rifles and a few shotguns and 2 handguns and he only has a few cases. Some people do keep lots of theirs in soft sided cases for protection but it just depends on the person I guess. My husband also buys used often so that may be why some of his that would normally come with a case didn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
HastingsChi said:
Something I haven't heard discussed:
* The shooting lasted circa 10-15 mins.
* The shooter's door wasn't breached (immediately followed by his own suicide) for 40-60 minutes after the last shot was fired.

What did the shooter do for 40-60 mins after he stopped shooting and before his door was breached?
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He shot a security guard, through the closed door and then he shot himself.
 
I have no reason other than to believe this statement.

He said he was prescribed Valium "for anxiousness" by Nevada internist Steven P. Winkler. It was unclear how often he took the drug, but he estimated that he had 10 or 15 pills remaining in a bottle of 60 that were prescribed a year and a half earlier
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[video=cnn;us/2017/10/09/las-vegas-shooter-gambling-habits-revealed-newday-dnt-lah.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/us/las-vegas-stephen-paddock-deposition/index.html[/video]

Take sixty pills, it is a safe assumption to believe that this was prescribed for most likely 2 months x1 daily, possibly twice daily BUT the pills lasted him 1 1/2 years and he had 10-15 by his estimate remaining. This alone suggests to me that he did not abuse drugs, yeah I know the flipside, he liked uppers instead but there is nothing to suggest that he did.

Perhaps what I am more amazed at is how so many in media,here and basically everywhere seem to point to his plethora of training/planning to carry this out. I would suggest this took no skill set at all, firing into a crowd of 22,000 people, I think someone blind could get the same percentage between 2-3 percent kill ratio. 58 people seems like a small # of people considering how large the crowd was. Upwards of 500 injured, but what percentage directly tied to SP and what percentage indirectly due to being trampled and so on. You have to think of it like a hurricane, direct deaths and indirect.
 
m00c0w said:
He stopped firing about an hour before they breached the suite. The actual shooting "only" lasted around 10 minutes, which was when the security guard got involved. There wasn't any more shooting after that, which is why the ad-hoc police team took their time setting up and making entry (he wasn't actively shooting anymore).
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******************************************

-IMO they are dancing around this.

if they took their time because there was no more shooting, what does that look like?
what were they discussing at that point?
were they strategically placed with guns drawn?
when they entered and saw him did they go check all the areas where others could be?
if SP was already dead when they got there how did they hear his last 1 or 2 gunshots?

-there are contradictory reports with holes in each one.
 
CARIIS said:
Imo At this point in time the human being most qualified to share info about him to the world is someone living with him -- the gf

It is documented that bio dad had been evaluated and determined to be high risk as it relates to suicide.

Las Vegas shooter's girlfriend to investigators: I worried about his mental stability

Las Vegas Shooter's Girlfriend Describes His Disturbing Behavior

investigators suggest Paddock's mental state was deteriorating in the weeks ...

. told investigators that Paddock had been exhibiting "mental health symptoms. .

Many other people who have had interactions with him have used descriptors such as strange unnerving irritable paranoid anti social odd etc etc etc

In broad sweeping terms I would conclude it is not "out" there for a dialog about mental stability when discussing a person who :

placed machine guns all around his hotel room,

wired his room with cameras,

set up recording devices outside his door

fired 200 bullets out a door attempting to hit one security guard

barricaded the stairwell in a public place

had been buying guns from four different states

smashed out windows of his hotel room

was calculating bullet speeds and landing spots

............and proceeded to behave as if he were on a battlefield in a war - while ending up in a pool of blood after inserting a pistol down his throat.

Imo I think mental health falls into a valid possibility as it relates to what has transpired.

moo

All imo , indicators that the reality is , thus far, mental illness is at the top of the list

moo

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21997...lfriend-i-worried-about-his-mental-stability/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephe...lfriend-i-worried-about-his-mental-stability/
Click to expand...

I really see nothing in what you have listed that shows this man was mentally ill. Why some seem insistent on this being the case is puzzling. People don't have to be mentally ill to pull something like this off. They just need the determination to do so which he had. I think he was very coherent when he planned and carried out his mission goal.

Everything he did leading up to the actual shooting showed he applied clear cognitive thought processes when doing so even if what he did was very terribly wrong and he knew it.

MD is searching for an excuse. Who can blame her?

Imo, he was on a mission to become the worst mass shooter in history. Imo, he thought of this as another achievement among the others things he had succeeded in doing during his lifetime whether it was achieving his goal to become a millionaire or achieving his goal to become a high stakes poker player.

I am beginning to highly doubt the claims of alcohol abuse as well and chock it up to people that didn't even know him nor had ever met him nor had ever cut his hair as just wanting their 15 seconds of fame.

This man wasn't mentally ill and that is why there hasn't been any evidence supporting that assumption. One does not have to be mentally ill to put together a masterful plan to become and be a mass shooter.

All of those things could be exhibited in anyone. Very few people are the exact same way 24/7 out of the day. It does not point to mental illness just because someone may be irritable or anti-social on any given day. It was also said he had a very good relationship with his ex and MD loved SP dearly. imo

IMO, always throwing the mental illness excuse out without any evidence is done so some can think only the mentally ill can become mass shooters when that is far from the truth. Anyone can become a murderer with no mental illness in their history whatsoever.

None of what he did showed he was mentally ill at the time. It did show he was thinking clearly right down to all of the tiny details he had to enact to do this horrific mass murder.

IMO
 
human said:
Yes, he could have used spears to kill and injure hundreds of people. Or he could have driven a car to kill hundreds of people. Or a bow and arrow.

He had the ingredients for explosions but first he wanted that piwer in his hands. The power of life and death.

So curious that other First World Nations do not have this problem even though they have the same psychotropic drugs, videos, games, divorce, racism, diverse populations with many coming from the destitute colonies , music, and chemical dependency issues.
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding right?

For me, I don't differentiate between terrorists and this guy. They both terrorize innocent people. Timothy McVeigh was a domestic terrorist just like this guy. Methods may have been different, but the intent was the same. For all we know he could have hooked up with an anti-government group (which in my mind are domestic terrorists).

Britain has had numerous attacks there.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/27/violent-rising-england-wales-police-figures-ons

I can go on and on about the violence across the world (including first world nations), but that is just one article. IIRC, guns are outlawed in Britain. So, they've taken away the guns from legitimate gun owners but they still have a rise in criminals using guns.

Frankly, I would rather be standing next to a conceal carry person who MAY protect me in the event some wack-job walks up and decides to start terrorizing people.

We can agree to disagree on this point.
 
Gooddeeds said:
******************************************

-IMO they are dancing around this.

if they took their time because there was no more shooting, what does that look like?
what were they discussing at that point?
were they strategically placed with guns drawn?
when they entered and saw him did they go check all the areas where others could be?
if SP was already dead when they got there how did they hear his last 1 or 2 gunshots?

-there are contradictory reports with holes in each one.
Click to expand...

Agree - I think when the FBI got down there and up and running they tried to clear up stuff

Sheriff intially clearly made it sound as if LE had engaged subject -- which is not at all what happened .

For at least 18 minutes (link recent post) they give the impression that they ended it -- everything had stopped an hour earlier

I would think if you crash into a room and no one fires and the person is dead on the floor the accurate report back in to dispatch would more akin to suspect down - self inflicted shot to the head -- just in terms of describing to dispatch what had just occurred moo



But then it turned into self inflicted .
 
m00c0w said:
I don't know what this means. This is the aircraft in question:

2016-Cirrus-SR20-1920x732.jpg


And it has a fuel capacity of 60.8 gallons. Do you think it would have been a minor incident?
Click to expand...

Yes. I have seen those planes in real life. They are small.
 
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