NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #20

[laytonian]

laytonian...."None of the job applications found in his car or apartment told a tale, either. They were either unsent apps, or rejections."

Hi....do we know about the rejections....as in what kind of applications
was he sending out....and perhaps the names or types of companies
which were rejecting his applications.

It would help to know what he was looking for.....a job in journalism, another
job like the one he had in St. George, something else??

Thanks.....

The applications were described to me as "like he started in the yellow pages with A, then B, then C...." almost like busywork. It also sounded like some were fairly old. Why carry them around in the trunk of one's car?

Like other things, it would be helpful to us if we could see them and analyze patterns.

But all we can hope is that others have done so.

 

[Lady LEO]

I may come off as abrasive, but I just don't believe anyone has solved this mystery yet...actually do enjoy a good debate about healthcare and other issues now and then. sorry if I scare people off with my passionate responses. or am I?? I will admit, there is a little something to that theory. But due to the nature of schizophrenics being disorganized, they are easier to be found, especially with a thousand people looking for them! This seemed like a pretty organized disappearance, by Steven or someone who wished him harm. So I definitely feel there is more, to the story. Also actively schizophrenic people have a lot of trouble hiding their symptoms (not deceptive enough) at a place like church (performing sealings!), etc...
When people say disorganized speech they mean some serious RAMBLING...like oh man...somethins definitely goin on with this guy. A strange pause every now and then, doesn't quite do it for me. It's not something someone could hide in a formal environment. It would surprise me, if Steven had a position of counselor in his ward with this problem.

I understand that you are an RN. I was a Cardiac Transplant Assistant and LVAD coordinator in my early years, over a decade or so ago. During that time, I authored 3 manuals on End Stage Heart Failure/Cardiac Transplantation and a physician’s pocket reference on Organ Rejection Treatment Protocols, all of which are still in use by 4 area hospitals. But in the end, I didn’t have what it takes to remain in a hospital environment around dying people.

Sophiness, I respect your unique abilities and success within your profession much more intimately because I was also in that industry a lifetime ago. With that being said, I wish that you would respect me as a verified professional within my career field, or at the very least, not be so quick to dismiss me. <modsnip>

 

[Lady LEO]

We don't know how Steven reasoned tho? What may seem illogical to us may seem logical to him. Just as in all the traveling and other aspects of his behavior. Logic tells me if he had been receiving unemployment and was quite frugal, he would have had enough money to pay his bills and put some aside. Logic tells me he could have secured a job at Walmart, K-Mart, 7-11 or somewhere simular to sustain him until a better job came along, but he didn't. Logic tells me if I'm on unemployment or not bring in a income, I shouldn't be paying tythes either, but that's my reasoning....maybe not Steven's.

Holly Blue, thank you for reading and understanding what was there in my post and possibly even more importantly, how I communicated it.

 

[Lato]

Lady Leo....I have thought that SK had strange behavioral characteristics
as described by various people at times....from SLC to St. George....but
I kept thinking that he had close contact with at least one physician
in St. George....an otolaryngologist...not a psychiatrist. However, I though
that this person would recognize behavioral signs of mental illness. I can't say whether he did or did not, but there is no one who has stated that SK
was seen and treated in St. George.

We have talked about it off and on since the beginning. While we have
nurses on this forum, I do not think we have a psychiatrist.

I went back today to look at behavior and mental illness. This is the link
I have been reading for most of the day.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter4/sec1.html

 

[Salem]

Okay - STOP NOW!!!!!

This thread is about Steven. Get back to that!

Salem

 

[Salem]

I just removed a page and a half of posts. I did not take the time to read everyone word for word right now. However, the gist of the posts is talking about moderation in the threads. That is against TOS.

Most of the posters in this thread have been here long enough to know that there is a way to ask for additional information WITHOUT attacking another member.

Steven has been missing a long time and we are no closer to knowing where he is than we were when this case first started.

New eyes and new voices are not a bad thing in a case that has pretty much gone cold. Please think about why you post in this thread and what the ultimate goal is, and shoud be - Steven.

Salem

 

[Lady LEO]

Here&#8217;s what it boils down to, SK is going to be found one of three ways: 1. His remains are going to be discovered and most likely by someone who just happened upon them, 2. People are going to locate him through by just doing some good old fashion searching, or 3. He is going to reappear on his own.

Since attempts have been unsuccessful in scenario #1 and there isn&#8217;t anything anybody can do about scenario #3, why not start focusing on scenario #2 which is something that you can do more about. And if you do decide to focus more efforts on scenario #2, then wouldn&#8217;t it be a good idea to take notes from the professionals who have training and expertise in successful outcomes for scenario #2?

Or, instead, I guess we can kick around ideas involving the one in a million scenarios and beat those into the ground too. Either way, progress isn&#8217;t really going to be made by looking at the one in a million scenarios as to why SK went missing. The only value in trying to understand &#8220;why&#8221; someone went missing is really to formulate &#8220;how&#8221; they are going to be found so that the search method can be tailored for the most successful results and increase the likelihood of locating that individual.

In one of my trainings awhile back, the instructor was talking about how and why conspiracy theories come to be. Part of it is that the public has a desire to have an answer that is proportional to the question. The bigger the question, the bigger and more complex the answer would need to be to possibly provide emotional satisfaction.

The same phenomenon is observed with tragedies that occur with no clearly identified motive or reasoning. The greater our emotions are surrounding the tragedy, the greater the answer must be to satisfy our emotions because a simple, straight forward answer doesn&#8217;t cover the scope of our emotions or our emotional investment. When in actuality, more times than not, it is a simple answer&#8230;it is just that the simple answer isn&#8217;t satisfying.

Looking for the satisfying answer to the &#8220;why&#8217;s&#8221; isn&#8217;t going to get anyone much closer to the &#8220;how is the best approach for finding him and how do we increase our odds of finding him.&#8221;

 

[Lady LEO]

When we don't have the ability or opportunity to talk with the individual in question directly, we do the next best thing and that is to get information, thoughts, and opinions from those who were close to and knew the individual. And, in my experiences, friends have more insight into some areas of the individual's life than their own family does because people will open up to friends about topics that they wouldn't necessarily discuss with family.

Then, with first hand accounts about someone from reliable sources, we try to establish a behavioral baseline so that any behavioral anomalies or abnormalities are easier to recognize. We also listen for behaviors or mannerisms that stood out as different or odd to the people who do know the individual. Many times, isolated behaviors don&#8217;t mean much by themselves until the totality of the behaviors are looked at and then things that would have otherwise been missed start to come to the surface.

Let's take an unrelated example to demonstrate a point...

An imaginary guy named Joe has only dated women, talked with his friends and family about his interests in women, only had sexual relations with women, and then married a woman.

In knowing these things about Joe, would someone be wrong in saying that Joe's behaviors are strongly suggestive of or highly consistent with someone who is heterosexual? Would that be diagnosing Joe as heterosexual? Does it rule out the possibility that Joe may actually be a homosexual? Would someone be wrong in saying that they are 90% certain that Joe is heterosexual? Would someone have to be an expert in heterosexual behaviors in order to say that Joe is most likely a heterosexual? If Joe went missing, would someone be wrong for looking for him in heterosexual bars or nightclubs?

The whole message here is that we would all be better served by looking at what we do know about SK and not speculate on things that there just isn't much support for. This may mean that we re-examine old theories but from a new angle and see how that affects the direction of the search to increase the possibilities of finding him successfully.

 

[OldSteve]

sniped:

Here’s what it boils down to, SK is going to be found one of three ways: 1. His remains are going to be discovered and most likely by someone who just happened upon them, 2. People are going to locate him through by just doing some good old fashion searching, or 3. He is going to reappear on his own.

I would add one more to your three ways - that being where media attention causes someone who knows something comes forward because it been weighing on their conscious, they've heard something from a spouse or friend, or because they are in prison and hope to get some sort of deal out of it.
By calling attention to a case as is done here might generate enough interest for the case to picked up by a television show ....
Apparently that has happened, and now time will tell if anything hopefully come from it...

 

[laytonian]

I just removed a page and a half of posts. I did not take the time to read everyone word for word right now. However, the gist of the posts is talking about moderation in the threads. That is against TOS.

Most of the posters in this thread have been here long enough to know that there is a way to ask for additional information WITHOUT attacking another member.

Steven has been missing a long time and we are no closer to knowing where he is than we were when this case first started.

New eyes and new voices are not a bad thing in a case that has pretty much gone cold. Please think about why you post in this thread and what the ultimate goal is, and shoud be - Steven.

Salem

:truce:

I think respect needs to go in all directions, Salem.

Most of us here are professionals, and we represent a wide variety of experience. Many of us have had similar training (I have, in DoD managerial seminars). But I think it's important not to hold one's job/training over everyone else's head, as a way to say that one's idea is more valuable than anyone else's (when that same idea has been discussed many times).

BTW, I don't think this case is cold.

 

[laytonian]

Here’s what it boils down to, SK is going to be found one of three ways: 1. His remains are going to be discovered and most likely by someone who just happened upon them, 2. People are going to locate him through by just doing some good old fashion searching, or 3. He is going to reappear on his own.

I'll add a fifth (after OldSteve's fourth): The case will be solved investigatively. A clue/link will surface.

 

[Salem]

:truce:

I think respect needs to go in all directions, Salem.

Most of us here are professionals, and we represent a wide variety of experience. Many of us have had similar training (I have, in DoD managerial seminars). But I think it's important not to hold one's job/training over everyone else's head, as a way to say that one's idea is more valuable than anyone else's (when that same idea has been discussed many times).

BTW, I don't think this case is cold.

laytonian - you are right - the respect does need to go in both directions. You guys have worked hard and know more about this case than anyone. I did not mean to imply that you deserve anything less than the greatest respect for all the hard work, time, energy and heart you have invested here. I do most sincerely appreciate all of you and your efforts.

Praying Steven is home soon,

Salem

 

[laytonian]

laytonian - you are right - the respect does need to go in both directions. You guys have worked hard and know more about this case than anyone. I did not mean to imply that you deserve anything less than the greatest respect for all the hard work, time, energy and heart you have invested here. I do most sincerely appreciate all of you and your efforts.

Praying Steven is home soon,

Salem

We all are. I don't believe in "closure", but at this point the family needs and deserves answers to "what happened"?

We have some talented newcomers with investigative skills and access to things we do not have. Think of what could be accomplished if they'd look at the information that's been gathered ... and do some research into the clue-laden timeline (ie, the parts that are frequently overlooked)

 

[sbakker]

Did anyone happen to watch "48 Hours" last night? About three women who were trying to find a friend of theirs who went missing? They call their selves Facebook Detectives. (I think that is what they are called) The friend has been missing since last June. They felt like law enforcement was not doing anything, so they started doing things on their own. There was pressure put on law enforcement, so there is now a new detective on the case. I will try and find their FB page.
I thought it was awesome!

 

[laytonian]

Did anyone happen to watch "48 Hours" last night? About three women who were trying to find a friend of theirs who went missing? They call their selves Facebook Detectives. (I think that is what they are called) The friend has been missing since last June. They felt like law enforcement was not doing anything, so they started doing things on their own. There was pressure put on law enforcement, so there is now a new detective on the case. I will try and find their FB page.
I thought it was awesome!

It WAS great! The Lisa Strong Case on 48 Hours has a good summary.

One thing that case has, that Steven's doesn't, is an ex-lover who's told lots of different stories.

It sounds like an adult version of the Casey Anthony case, where someone goes missing for weeks and the person closest to them kinda just "forgets" to notice.

 

[Fairy1]

Did anyone happen to watch "48 Hours" last night? About three women who were trying to find a friend of theirs who went missing? They call their selves Facebook Detectives. (I think that is what they are called) The friend has been missing since last June. They felt like law enforcement was not doing anything, so they started doing things on their own. There was pressure put on law enforcement, so there is now a new detective on the case. I will try and find their FB page.
I thought it was awesome!

Lisa Stone's friends have been incredible in terms of keeping her case from fading away. Seems everyone has the same suspect in mind - and pretty much from day one. Maybe this new detective will actually make some progress.

Can we get a new detective for Steven?

 

[laytonian]

Lisa Stone's friends have been incredible in terms of keeping her case from fading away. Seems everyone has the same suspect in mind - and pretty much from day one. Maybe this new detective will actually make some progress.

Can we get a new detective for Steven?

$$$$

I don't think the widow Koecher can afford a private detective, and the Facebook Detective women obviously have an attorney advising them.
Otherwise, slander and libel come to mind.

 

[Fairy1]

$$$$

I don't think the widow Koecher can afford a private detective, and the Facebook Detective women obviously have an attorney advising them.
Otherwise, slander and libel come to mind.

I don't mean a private detective, but a detective with LE who is willing to find that clue/link to which you referred earlier.

 

[laytonian]

I don't mean a private detective, but a detective with LE who is willing to find that clue/link to which you referred earlier.

It's not the finding, it's the convincing. One external thing needs to happen, then maybe we'll see some movement on either this or Lisa's case.

Until there's evidence of a crime, they're not going to try to solve it.

 

[Lady LEO]

Link: http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/swrdu/Publications/MissingPersons.pdf

Title: Lost from View&#8212;a study of missing persons in UK

Basis and Scope of Study: &#8220;Researchers at the University of York have completed the most extensive study of going missing in the UK. Drawing on case records on nearly 2000 adults and young people reported to the National Missing Persons Helpline and questionnaires completed by 114 formerly missing people, this is the first study to unravel the meaning of going missing across the entire spectrum of missing person cases.&#8221;

Study Findings:

Why adults go missing

Decided 64%
--Relationship breakdown
--Escape Problems
--Escape violence
--Mental Health Problems

Drifted 19%
--Lost Contact
--Transient lifestyle

Unintentional absence 16%
--Dementia
--Mental Health Problems
--Accident/Harm
--Miscommunication

Forced 1%
--Victim of crime

&#8220;Most other unintentional absences were linked to depression or to psychotic illnesses, where medication had been missed.&#8221;

*****************************************************************************

My own comments:

Mental health problems represented 80% of the reasons people went missing (Decided 64% plus Unintentional absence 16% for combined total of 80%). As far as absence/disappearance due to victim of crime: 1%.

Disappearance due to Mental Problem 80% vs. disappearance due to being a victim of crime 1%.

The numbers speak for themselves.

The study had additional findings supportive of details of SK's case. Review the study at your leisure and please direct any retorts, arguments, or challenges to the researchers of the study. I am just the messenger.