NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 4

[Fairy1]

Fairy1, all good points. But, what if Steven didn't know he was essentially "ditching" his car? What if he thought he was parking it?

I know this goes way back and laytonian and I have differed on this but that's why I think it is not an optical illusion that Steven slowed down at the Evening Lights St. intersection in his car. He comes down Savannah. Sees the sign for Evening Lights. Slows down. Looks down Evening Lights. Sees a dark car with somebody standing beside it. Somebody is standing outside the car so as to look for Steven coming down Savannah so he can flag Steven down when he sees Steven.

Steven then knows he is in the right area. Maybe the person motions to him to park it in the cul de sac. Maybe there is already a prior understanding. Steven parks in the cul de sac. Steven walks around the corner and jumps into somebody else's car. To me, it is entirely plausible and possible. I am just not sure I see a dark car in the video. But after watching it a 100 times now it just looks like Steven definitely does not continue walking down the sidewalk. Something goes on right at the edge of the passenger's side front window at 12:00:53.

So are you saying that whoever he was meeting there did away with him? Why? What did he have that someone else wanted? He was 3 months behind in his rent. If he was into something he shouldn't have been, wouldn't he have been more solvent?

I just don't see this being the case. His quirky travels started quite some time before he went missing. WTH was he doing? Running drugs or whatever to Wendover, NV? Nope. I really don't think that makes any sense either.

 

[fasteddy4]

Fairy1, and this is going to be my last post tonight because otherwise I am going to start hallucinating that we are looking for the crew from the Mary Celeste.

Anyway, statistically speaking. . .this is just the facts. . .(and this goes to the poll from hours ago when we were all asked if we thought Steven was still alive). . .the stats say Steven is not with us anymore. Regardless of anything else that we may suspect, the odds of him being alive a month and a half after disappearing are very, very low. Yes, we can all name some people who appeared years later. . .like Elizabeth Smart. But for every one of those, there are a hundred people who are never seen again. Yes, some of them truly disappear and start new lives somewhere else. But most are eventually found deceased. Are you familiar with the Doe Network? Look at their list of how many people have disappeared and then look at all of the bodies that have never been identified. It's creepy.

In fact, I have stated many times: I do not believe in UFO's but I could be convinced of their existence by the sheer number of people who disappear and are never heard from again. . .maybe all of them are getting "beamed up".

So, the odds say something "bad" happened to Steven. Maybe he took his own life. Maybe he was murdered. Maybe he had an accident with some people he was doing day work with. They got nervous. Dumped his body somewhere. Who knows. But the odds say he is gone. I, just like the rest of you, have no evidence of him still living or being deceased.

That's why I have tried to keep my attitude on it to the odds. What are the odds he got amnesia? What are the odds he wanted to start a new life? What are the odds that he got mixed up with the wrong crowd? What are the odds he wanted to commit suicide? What are the odds Webb had something to do with it? Each one of those has a different percentage. Since we don't have intimate knowledge of the LE investigation, we have to go on what we know coupled with history. What has usually happened to people under these similar circumstances? Well, frankly, most of them are dead or never appeared again. In some cases, people have been convicted of a person's murder without a body. That could very well happen in Steven's case.

So as far as anything any of us have said that makes sense or not. . .truly. . .none of it makes any sense. There is no way a guy should disappear in the middle of Anthem. . .but it happened. And if that can happen, then I think anything is possible in this case. Still, I try to look to prior cases and history to try to get a sense of what MIGHT have happened and attach odds to it. That's why I use the words possible and probable quite a bit.

I will be on here some time tomorrow. In the meantime, I hope everybody looks at that video and adds their input. The shadow is weird.

 

[webrocket]

whoa, it does look like a dark car with someone standing next to it through out the entire video. It looks like he doesn't even slow down though doesn't it? I wish the video were a bit longer so we could see if that car left right away. That's so strange. Good eye fasteddy for noticing that at first!

I will admit to not having a fancy large screen to view this on but more than a couple of you have suggested that it shows that Steven got into a waiting car.

Do I get any recognition for having said this all along?

 

[TripleA]

What about one of those encyclopedia/magazine/sales jobs. The groups meet and all ride together in a van to the chosen locations. Seems odd, but sometimes they do park their cars in neighborhoods that they think will not tow immediately.

My BIL worked for one of those companies just this past year and met all kinds of crazy people both working with him and as customers. They parked their cars, loaded into a van and traveled together. It was almost cult or gypsy-like behavior.

If Steven was looking for work, he may have been desperate enough to try a sales job like that. I believe that they advertise on CL.

 

[believe09]

I will admit to not having a fancy large screen to view this on but more than a couple of you have suggested that it shows that Steven got into a waiting car.

Do I get any recognition for having said this all along?

My bold and italics. Recognition?:waitasec: I dont understand.

 

[fasteddy4]

Webrocket, I believe you have said that a couple of times. Good job. But I don't think anyone has said that there is actually proof that that happened. We have had a lot of conjecture though.

I mean, I just got up this morning and looked at the video again and I am still not sure what I see at the end of it. But, I am 95 percent sure that Steven does not continue to walk down that street, the reason being that strange shadow. Could he be getting into a car? Sure. My first idea, though, was that he left the sidewalk and walked on to the property of that first house with the casita.

We need more input from what other people see in that video. And the inputs need to be honest. Don't tell me or laytonian or anyone else what you think we want to hear. If you watch the video and you think he just walks straight down the street? Fine. I would just like to build some consensus. A good brainstorm of what that shadow could be might be good too.

But that was some good insight, webrocket.

 

[webrocket]

My bold and italics. Recognition?:waitasec: I dont understand.

I cannot possibly count how many times or how many different variations of this theme I gave:

Steven went to Evening Lights for the purpose of hopping in someone else's car to go to a third location.

Some may have agreed, others considered it, more dismissed it. People thought these scenarios were more likely at least in their minds:

he was on the golf course for a job interview, walked up the mountains for a hike or to commit suicide, maybe went in the pond, was "spreading the word", handing out leaflets, going on a secret mission to Brazil, going to a vacant house on EL to do a *advertiser censored* shoot, smuggling illegal aliens, and the list goes on.

 

[believe09]

I cannot possibly count how many times or how many different variations of this theme I gave:

Steven went to Evening Lights for the purpose of hopping in someone else's car to go to a third location.

Some may have agreed, others considered it, more dismissed it. People thought these scenarios were more likely at least in their minds:

he was on the golf course for a job interview, walked up the mountains for a hike or to commit suicide, maybe went in the pond, was "spreading the word", handing out leaflets, going on a secret mission to Brazil, going to a vacant house on EL to do a *advertiser censored* shoot, smuggling illegal aliens, and the list goes on.

Respectfully, this is not about US and the need for personal recognition. It is about Steven. This is all about pooling our resources and trying to find a way to bring him home or to draw a bigger audience to his story.

The time for doling out "recognition" is when Steven has been found. Again, JMO.

 

[webrocket]

Webrocket, I believe you have said that a couple of times. Good job. But I don't think anyone has said that there is actually proof that that happened. We have had a lot of conjecture though.

I mean, I just got up this morning and looked at the video again and I am still not sure what I see at the end of it. But, I am 95 percent sure that Steven does not continue to walk down that street, the reason being that strange shadow. Could he be getting into a car? Sure. My first idea, though, was that he left the sidewalk and walked on to the property of that first house with the casita.

We need more input from what other people see in that video. And the inputs need to be honest. Don't tell me or laytonian or anyone else what you think we want to hear. If you watch the video and you think he just walks straight down the street? Fine. I would just like to build some consensus. A good brainstorm of what that shadow could be might be good too.

But that was some good insight, webrocket.

I took a fresh look at the video focussing almost exclusively on the dark image in the window of the minivan.

It appears to me that Steven is walking on the sidewalk until he reaches the dark object, then passes to the right of the dark image when it ends.

Now that we suspect what it shows, the next question I have is that I think the family got plenty of tapes from Mr. Security. If the dark object leaves a short time after Steven disappeared from view then it would certainly be a vehicle.

So if the family would just look at the next 2-5 minutes of the unedited videos, then they may have their answer for sure.

 

[liz b.]

Fasteddy,
After he walks by those objects on the sidewalk, in the very last frame of the video, you can see his reflection in the window of the SUV closest to the camera. He continues walking down that street.He really does not look to detour or pause. IMHO

 

[capoly]

Webrocket, I believe you have said that a couple of times. Good job. But I don't think anyone has said that there is actually proof that that happened. We have had a lot of conjecture though.

I mean, I just got up this morning and looked at the video again and I am still not sure what I see at the end of it. But, I am 95 percent sure that Steven does not continue to walk down that street, the reason being that strange shadow. Could he be getting into a car? Sure. My first idea, though, was that he left the sidewalk and walked on to the property of that first house with the casita.

We need more input from what other people see in that video. And the inputs need to be honest. Don't tell me or laytonian or anyone else what you think we want to hear. If you watch the video and you think he just walks straight down the street? Fine. I would just like to build some consensus. A good brainstorm of what that shadow could be might be good too.

But that was some good insight, webrocket.

Some excellent sleuthing on your part, fasteddy4, as well as on the part of harleysnana (having earlier brought the reflection aspect into the equation).

 

[laytonian]

I will admit to not having a fancy large screen to view this on but more than a couple of you have suggested that it shows that Steven got into a waiting car.

Do I get any recognition for having said this all along?

Sure you do.
I've looked at it twice this morning.

It still looks like a person is standing by a car; the dark "flash" might happen too quickly to be a car door open (but could be just Steven's shadow). It's also possible that Steven walked around and got into the other door. Or maybe he kept going.

What struck me, though, is that Steven walked so close by that car and (assumed) person. We don't see what happens next.

I alerted the family last night, because they have full copies of the video. I asked them to watch only the window, like we've been doing, and see what happens next. Does the car sit there? Etc

 

[webrocket]

Sure you do.
I've looked at it twice this morning.

It still looks like a person is standing by a car; the dark "flash" might happen too quickly to be a car door open (but could be just Steven's shadow). It's also possible that Steven walked around and got into the other door. Or maybe he kept going.

What struck me, though, is that Steven walked so close by that car and (assumed) person. We don't see what happens next.

I alerted the family last night, because they have full copies of the video. I asked them to watch only the window, like we've been doing, and see what happens next. Does the car sit there? Etc

Not just this tape but the next few minutes of the original tapes they got from Mr. Security.

I don't know what the dark thing is if it is NOT a vehicle. It was a bright sunny day and the sun was gleaming off any white surface like the sidewalk.

 

[liz b.]

If Steven's family has copies of the videos, they could get them enhanced and enlarged. Many more details might pop up. It's way worth doing, if they have not done so already. Respectfully, I don't see how Steven could have gotten into the "car", because he is clearly seen in the reflection of the SUV'S side window.He continues to stride down the street, not stopping or detouring. JMO I would like to say that I personally have considered many scenarios ; I believe it is what must be done. Eliminate each possibilty, based on any known facts. The one that remains, or the one that is hardest to eliminate is the most likely to have actually happened. To form a theory, not be flexible,and try to make any facts/evidence fit it, just leads to cicular reasoning. Facts can't be discarded just because they don't fit into a pet theory. IMO.

 

[laytonian]

Fasteddy,
After he walks by those objects on the sidewalk, in the very last frame of the video, you can see his reflection in the window of the SUV closest to the camera. He continues walking down that street.He really does not look to detour or pause. IMHO

The reflection is what we're looking at. Not just the last frame. Go back to about 54:40 on the video, and focus only on that reflection and what could be a black car.

Look at the dark spot, and you'll see what appears to be a figure standing there. It's not just a reflection, because it is attached to the ground and (I think) looks taller than the car.

Then start at the brginning...and focus only on that car-shaped dark spot. Watch the lighter figure move....does it move a bit more, when Steven's car goes by on the street?

Notice ALSO that Steven walks very close to that "car" and "figure". If I saw someone standing by a car on a street, I'd stay on the other side unless I was trying to meet that person. <----speculation

I don't think we even see the end of the black "car"...the figure disappears when the reflection ends at the minivan's windshield pillar.

ETA:
ALSO -- IF that is a car sitting there, "Steven" isn't walking on the sidewalk. He's walking on the street, because the car is parallel parked and he comes between the "car" and the camera. Obviously, if he'd been walking on the sidewalk, he would have have disappeared behind it.

 

[Helix11]

Great job everyone! There has been some excellent sleuthing lately! I don't really want to backtrack too far, but I'm really curious about this post by Appalled. I never saw it because it was removed pretty quickly, but my question to you all is this: if this is just a neighbor on Evening Lights annoyed that people are conducting searches and talking about their street/house etc more often than normal, how the heck did they know about this website??? It's not exactly like facebook or myspace...

My point is, was this person following this case AND a resident on Evening Lights? What are the odds of that?

 

[fasteddy4]

What is tough about this whole thing is that we are looking at something that is happening about 70 ft. away in a reflection off of a car window that is obviously curved. So everything is reversed. And the whole thing is being shot by a camera with a fish eye lens. And the object moving is moving away from the camera at an angle. Tough tough tough.

Steven's shadow looks to be about the same length as he is tall in the videos. So, whatever his shadow is hitting it is pretty close. The funny thing is that there is a wall along that sidewalk which would be within 6 feet of him and gives off just a very light, small shadow in the time he is walking down there. But suddenly there is this dark spot and that is obviously his shadow hitting something that is much closer than the wall was.

Now right at the end of that wall before Steven would be just in front of the first property with the casita there are two decently large bushes. But these are are dark bushes (at least that is the way they looked last night). They aren't leafy green like leaves on your average tree. Those could be the dark spot. But I don't think they would throw off that kind of shadow. Plus, there is definitely a "white" space in that dark object that I don't think corresponds to the bushes along that wall.

But the more I watch that video it really looks (given the tough conditions and all the angles in that video) like it is possible that Steven meets someone on the sidewalk and that person starts walking with him but not on the sidewalk.

I guess what I am saying is that if someone knew for sure that Steven just continued to walk down the sidewalk this is not how I would expect the video to look. I would expect a more consistent shadow at the end. I would expect that "blob" in the reflection to go smoothly right off the edge of that window. But, it doesn't. In fact, Steven has on light-colored clothes. I would think that he would stick out more against a dark background but he doesn't. But he kind of just "vanishes" (forgive the pun), almost like he is eaten up by that dark object. So, either he got into that dark object or he turned and left the sidewalk because that is where the wall ends and he would be able to walk on to that first property on Evening Lights St. (Appalled. . .I am NOT insinuating anything.)

Tough tough tough to tell.

 

[webrocket]

The reflection is what we're looking at. Not just the last frame. Go back to about 54:40 on the video, and focus only on that reflection and what could be a black car.

Look at the dark spot, and you'll see what appears to be a figure standing there. It's not just a reflection, because it is attached to the ground and (I think) looks taller than the car.

Then start at the brginning...and focus only on that car-shaped dark spot. Watch the lighter figure move....does it move a bit more, when Steven's car goes by on the street?

Notice ALSO that Steven walks very close to that "car" and "figure". If I saw someone standing by a car on a street, I'd stay on the other side unless I was trying to meet that person. <----speculation

I don't think we even see the end of the black "car"...the figure disappears when the reflection ends at the minivan's windshield pillar.

ETA:
ALSO -- IF that is a car sitting there, "Steven" isn't walking on the sidewalk. He's walking on the street, because the car is parallel parked and he comes between the "car" and the camera. Obviously, if he'd been walking on the sidewalk, he would have have disappeared behind it.

I thought I saw that lighter colored figure which is in the middle of the dark object perpendicular to the ground. Could be a person and it does appear to move. Almost as if waving to Steven. That could be just the image of the camera not being focussed on that spot but it could be a person standing in the street next to a car.

 

[laytonian]

Great job everyone! There has been some excellent sleuthing lately! I don't really want to backtrack too far, but I'm really curious about this post by Appalled. I never saw it because it was removed pretty quickly, but my question to you all is this: if this is just a neighbor on Evening Lights annoyed that people are conducting searches and talking about their street/house etc more often than normal, how the heck did they know about this website??? It's not exactly like facebook or myspace...

My point is, was this person following this case AND a resident on Evening Lights? What are the odds of that?

If you google "Steven Koecher", WS forums come up as almost the top results. Apparently, The Committee Represented By Mr Appalled did just that.

There were some interesting points in that post -- and maybe we can learn from it (in ways unintended by "Appalled"):

1 - The post mentions the composition of the neighborhood: active and retired law enforcement and/or military, professionals, etc. First they were "afraid" of the car, then softened after meeting family members canvassing the neighborhood, then gossiped about "how sad it all is" at the Christmas party -- yet why haven't those "caring" neighbors used their vastly superior abilities to help the family?

2 - Why would the post complain about public attention, then draw more attention to a certain home by (supposedly) "revealing" which home he lived in?

People "Appalled" agrees with, are law enforcement, federal, retired, admirable. When "Appalled" wants to insult someone, he calls them "morons", "grandmothers", "homemakers", "cheerleaders", "queen bees".

I just think it's sad that a man can go missing in a neighborhood full of experienced law enforcement, military, security experts, at least one forensics expert.....many of whom are still advertising their services, and not one has stepped up to assist a family in pain.

 

[fasteddy4]

Another point that I would make about a car possibly being parked on the curb there is this. Look at the google satellite pic of that neighborhood: NOT ONE car is parked on the curb. In fact, there are very few cars even parked in driveways. Surely surely surely someone would remember a car parked on the curb, whether there was a person in it or standing by it or not, simply because it is so rarely done in that neighborhood. And they even remember it more if the car was there for say. . .fifteen minutes. In my neighborhood cars are parked all over the place including the curb. In that neighborhood it looks to be pretty pretty rare.