NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 7

[carbuff]

I just can't imagine a drug dealer entrusting thousands of dollars or more worth of product to some anonymous person on craigslist. to get it where it needs to go. If this actually happens, I am shocked.

It happens a lot around here (New England).

The reason is that they want people who are not going to get stopped by the police. They want nice naive-looking young men like Steven who couldn't possibly be thought to be running drugs or guns or whatever other contraband is going down. And if the person does get stopped, they're the one in trouble. There's very little danger of being traced back through Craigslist. Yeah, they lose the cargo, but they would have lost it anyway and would be in jail to boot if they drove it themselves.

There's very little chance of losing the cargo otherwise. Most people are basically honest. They take advantage of that.

 

[carbuff]

Thank you wannab1.

Ya know, you bring up (again) some good points. There are some things that just can't be overlooked in Steven's case. The fact that he moved away from his family - for no really compelling reason. The fact that he didn't have a full-time, well-paying job. No wife or children. No friends or social life outside of his church - or so it seems. Isolated. I agree.

This is the type of person who would likely spend a lot of time on his computer - particularly someone with his background. Chat rooms, singles sites, something. Yet, as far as we know, there is no evidence of that. Of course, we do know that he was using the computers at the library from time to time and we don't know what he was doing there. But it just seems so impossible to believe that a person who really didn't have anything to hide, would have left NO TRACE of his life behind. That seems like someone who does have something to hide. IMO.

He reads, he plays his guitar.

This just screams "depressed person" to me. When I'm in a depressed phase, sometimes I just sit and stare at the wall or the TV and don't even realize time is passing. Or sometimes I drive randomly all over the place. If somebody comes to get me for a dinner out with friends, I perk up and enjoy myself while I'm out -- my friends wouldn't notice anything wrong. But I'm back in the funk within an hour or two.

 

[laytonian]

We asked the same question and got the response that he didn't have one. I too have an iphone and spend way too much time on it. Wifey hates it! I think he still could have had one without many people knowing about it. I personally don't rule out that he had an ipod touch.

I don't rule out anything. But the easiest untraceable communication device for him to own, would have been a TracPhone. Cheap, no contract, untraceable, unconnected to his bank account, get it at Walmart.

An iPod Touch would have been visible on his computer and all the downloads visible. An iPhone would be visible through his bank account.

Whatever he had, there's only two possibilities on the video (CAM3): He's looking down and reading a message on a phone, or he looked down to avoid being seen by the SUV driver.

 

[NicoleinVegas]

I am still coming and checking in here and seeing what you all have thought about and ever since the missing San Diego girl and the live scanner the day they found her, I am now always listening to the LV scanner. It makes me sad to know that there is nothing about SK yet, but then when I come back to the forums, you see so many found deceased topics now. So scary.

 

[laytonian]

Thanks renn... Another question along the same lines... Did he have a skype account? I know nothing about Skype but I hear you can talk to people long distance for free. I've seen newer models of cordless phones that are Skype compatible and I'm pretty sure it's also accessible online. Maybe Skype records aren't as obvious as phone calls and chat rooms? Just a thought because I'm thinking that unless he had another means of communication, one of the last people he spoke to knows more than they are saying... Most likely the guy who was already in Vegas.
Can anyone point me in the direction of where that's been discussed here previously? Thx

Skype software would have been visible on his computer, along with a record of calls. Skype is only free if you call other Skype users; calling non-Skype users is based on an account-debit system.

You CAN use an iPhone or iPod Touch (within wifi range) for Skype, but it's complicated and again, you've got those account trails/software (on your computer or bank account).

 

[laytonian]

If somebody comes to get me for a dinner out with friends, I perk up and enjoy myself while I'm out -- my friends wouldn't notice anything wrong. But I'm back in the funk within an hour or two.

And you have friends around you. Steven had "church friends" (ie, the people you are friends with, when you attend your assigned ward). I call them "assigned friends". My own friends have always been schoolmates, fellow workers, or neighbors I developed a close relationship with. Although I enjoyed the companionship of people my own age at church, none of them ever became true friends. I only had one relationship with a church member after I quit attending church (Presbyterian), and that was the son of one of my school teachers....and we met in a club. Two dates. End of relationship.

Steven might have seemed OK to the church friends, but they had only known him a few months.
When we hear from his real friends, who he grew up with or associated with for years, they describe him having ups and downs.

I don't think Steven's St George friends knew him well enough to judge whether he was OK or not. Based on the sightings that dribble out, I'm not even sure they noticed whether he was around or not.

gsmith and Naegle are real assets to us, because they know the real Steven.

 

[seekingsusan]

Just considering other ways to interpret existing information:

What if Steven had no intention of going back to St. George, even though he told GW he would if he was needed? I wonder if Steven said something like "Well I could go back to St. George, if I have to." And GW got the sense that Steven didn't want to go back or couldn't and that's why he said the "Well do what you have to do" statement and didn't question him further. That would explain GWs curt response and lack of questioning.

But I can't figure out how that call, either way, could have taken two whole minutes. Sounds more like a 45 second exchange to me.

 

[laytonian]

Just considering other ways to interpret existing information:

What if Steven had no intention of going back to St. George, even though he told GW he would if he was needed? I wonder if Steven said something like "Well I could go back to St. George, if I have to." And GW got the sense that Steven didn't want to go back or couldn't and that's why he said the "Well do what you have to do" statement and didn't question him further. That would explain GWs curt response and lack of questioning.

But I can't figure out how that call, either way, could have taken two whole minutes. Sounds more like a 45 second exchange to me.

I think you're right.....except I think it would have taken 15 seconds

The only thing I can think of, is whether they "argued" a bit about who could make it back to St George in time (ie, who was closer).

"Do what you have to do" sounds like a response to Steven telling him something about what he was "do"ing there.

 

[RubyRed]

It has become obvious GW is off limits. When someone is missing everyone that had contact with him should be suspected. Even more so if you were one of the last ones to talk to him and were even within the same vicinity as the missing person.

 

[RubyRed]

Has it ever been answered what GW does for a living?

 

[seekingsusan]

Has it ever been answered what GW does for a living?

I don't think we ever got an answer on this, just like we never got an answer about whether GW actually made it to church that day.

 

[Lato]

One more question with no answer as yet...was SK given a notice of eviction and/or was his unit locked on the 12th (or any other day)?

 

[laytonian]

I don't think we ever got an answer on this, just like we never got an answer about whether GW actually made it to church that day.

Actually, we did. Naegle talked to Webb and asked him the questions we'd asked:
"He went to Las Vegas on the 11th and spent the weekend with friends in the Vegas area. He headed home on Sunday(13th) morning. He called Steven because he wasn't going to be in St George in time for the planning meeting and wanted to see if he could cover. He called when he was on I-15 passing the raceway in Vegas. He continued home and made it to the normal church meetings at noon."

I don't know why I didn't add that to the timeline previously, but it's there now - as well as a link to Naegle's entire post.

(There are various meetings on Sunday, of various types -- so we don't know exactly which kind, but maybe one of our LDS posters knows the sequencing.)

 

[dovebar]

I don't think Steven's St George friends knew him well enough to judge whether he was OK or not. Based on the sightings that dribble out, I'm not even sure they noticed whether he was around or not.

gsmith and Naegle are real assets to us, because they know the real Steven.

For Mormons, church friends often are their primary friends or only friends. That is one of the benefits - built-in friends everywhere - and one of the isolating things. It can be hard to develop friendships at work if you do not drink and his roommate wasn't a friend. Different lifestyle.

So it's not clear that Steven was friendless but he was certainly new to the area, as laytonian says. That may explain why his St. George friends haven't participated more in searches; they just didn't know him well yet so while genuine, the friendships were not as strong. His newness to the area might have been one of his vulnerabilities, which a true con artist could have exploited. He wasn't the mayor's son or the child of the temple president who'd lived in the area 20 years.

I think we have to be careful about saying he must have been depressed because he liked to read and play his guitar. Steven shows all the signs not of depression but of introversion. He wasn't unable to get out of bed and he didn't quit doing things that gave him pleasure, like coaching a basketball team. But Mormonism (and being American, for that matter) is a very extroverted religion and Utah is an extroverted state where people do things as a group and think with the group. If your tendencies are towards being a monk and having quieter times, you are going to find it harder to date, find a good fit with a young woman, and find a good career. He probably was unaware that journalism, requiring more extroversion, wasn't a good fit but something like librarianship would have been. Long car trips alone seem strange to us but might have been relaxing to an over stimulated brain. If you were unlike your family, they would also have had a hard time understanding you and would have been on you constantly to be more like them.

This story is really a tragedy about square pegs, round holes, and the dangers to people who are moved to the margins of our groups because they're not exactly like us.

 

[laytonian]

One more question with no answer as yet...was SK given a notice of eviction and/or was his unit locked on the 12th (or any other day)?

That's the current million-dollar question, isn't it?

I can ask Naegle, but I think it's one of those things that would either have been admitted up front, or never talked about. KWIM?

 

[dovebar]

About tracfones, many people have one in addition to their regular phone even if they're not deliberately involved in anything illegal or odd.

You can take them places where you wouldn't want to lose your regular phone, like Lake Powell. It's good to have a backup phone in case your regular service goes down in some way. Just the other day, my primary cell phone was acting up because I had hit a wrong button but didn't know it, so I got out my other phone, charged it, and used it to call the service carrier. I let the balance run down but keep a phone card that I can use to add value whenever I want.

 

[RubyRed]

A friend of mine her son went to jail for 2 years for running drugs (pot) from Montreal, Quebec to Hamilton ,Ontario. The scary part is sometimes another friend went and drove, not knowing that is what his friend was doing. Thought they were going because the drinking age was 18 and they could get into bars and strip clubs. It all came to light because when he went to deliver one time he was robbed at gunpoint. Scared the crap out of him and he told his Mom, who called police. Afterwards the red flags were there. His way of living had increased, he was buying expensive things. And he was not doing drugs. ( he was tested) It was the friend of a friend that got him into it.
So unless Steven had just gotten into something like this , I don't think he was doing it long term. He didn't have the increased lifestyle and sure didn't have money.

 

[laytonian]

He wasn't unable to get out of bed and he didn't quit doing things that gave him pleasure, like coaching a basketball team.

He coached a basketball team?

But Mormonism (and being American, for that matter) is a very extroverted religion and Utah is an extroverted state where people do things as a group and think with the group.

There's actually two Utahs: the LDS Utah, and the Gentiles. One group knows all their LDS neighbors. The other group (individuals of all faiths and cultures) are more individualistic and aren't a cohesive group. The LDS in the neighborhood have a block party; we Gentiles have our own party at the same time, but the two parties will never intersect.

We didn't know the name of our LDS neighbor three doors up, so when he people started coming and going, we wondered why. Turns out he'd died. All the Mormons knew, sent flowers, did all the neighborly things.
(Our daughter and her husband now own that home.)

On the other hand, the nearest LDS couple in the neighborhood, didn't know our daughter had had a kidney transplant until my husband mentioned it ... years afterward, when the kids were moving into the house across the street from her. All the Gentiles knew, sent flowers, did all the neighborly things.

This story is really a tragedy about square pegs, round holes, and the dangers to people who are moved to the margins of our groups because they're not exactly like us.

Brava!

I mention the "two Utahs" because I wonder if it's possible that Steven was living in BOTH. Living in the "expected and approved" LDS community, yet also hanging out with Gentiles?

This kind of goes back to some of our initial thoughts, but I think it would be entirely possible to do so because neither group interacts with each other.

Or....could he have been just reclusive with either group?

 

[RubyRed]

What we have found is that he was appreciated by those who knew him, he was seen as a tireless volunteer by his church congregation, he was an Eagle Scout, served as a Big Brother for the Big Brothers/Big Sisters organization, coached youth basketball teams and organized softball teams for young single adults. He also was credited with being a Good Samaritan on the Friday before he disappeared and purchased Christmas gifts for his older brother’s family on Saturday night before he vanished.

http://www.clippertoday.com/view/fu...e-tips?instance=secondary_stories_left_column

 

[sbakker]

A friend of mine her son went to jail for 2 years for running drugs (pot) from Montreal, Quebec to Hamilton ,Ontario. The scary part is sometimes another friend went and drove, not knowing that is what his friend was doing. Thought they were going because the drinking age was 18 and they could get into bars and strip clubs. It all came to light because when he went to deliver one time he was robbed at gunpoint. Scared the crap out of him and he told his Mom, who called police. Afterwards the red flags were there. His way of living had increased, he was buying expensive things. And he was not doing drugs. ( he was tested) It was the friend of a friend that got him into it.
So unless Steven had just gotten into something like this , I don't think he was doing it long term. He didn't have the increased lifestyle and sure didn't have money.

Since I have been here on this website, I have learned many things that are valuable in my everyday life. It looks as though many people were on aware of drug runners. The thing with this kind of operation, there are NO ties if the runnners are caught. Many of these people that set up the drug runners, use homes and apartments that are not theirs. My friend told me, that they PREY on the innocent. They know how to seek them out. They look for people who need money. Who are desperate for work. They make it sound good. great money, nice motels to stay in, good food. They may even have a legitimate business set up, and run this on the side.

It is something REALLY going on.

Like I said, I have learned many things here. This is just one more evil situation going on.