NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 8

[laytonian]

Everything has me frustrated! Steven will continue taking a back seat as long as there is no effort to find him. I'm here and I can and will look for him - but only if I know where to go. It's a big city and I have a full-time job and a family. I'm willing to look for Steven, but I can't do it by myself.

I have my own theories about Steven, but I'm still open to other theories. With what little we know - it really can go any which way.

Your heart is in the right place, and your willingness to go out and search for Steven shows how big your heart is. Unfortunately, no one knows where to look. The obvious places have been searched.

What makes this so hard? Steven didn't want to be found!

If he left to start a new life, he doesn't want to be found.

If he went there to somehow harm himself, he did so so he wouldn't be found.

If he went there for a job/appointment, it was in total secrecy (and if things turned out badly, it's because he started out not wanting to be found!)

Do we even have ONE scenario that says "find me!" ?? No. We have a last week filled with mysterious and (apparently) undocumented activities. A man who left everything behind, and was last seen walking in a strange neighborhood.

 

[laytonian]

Smart Alec! I'm attemping to illustrate why it's so dang frustrating!

Sunset and Marks intersect. Marks runs N/S and Sunset runs E/W. I can't recall either one of these stores in the area, but that's mostly because these are stores my DH would go to, not me.

The problem is, even if we make a Google Map with all of the locations on them, we still don't know where the tips came from. A worker? A shopper?

I did write to the lead detective. Let's see if we can get basic info.

 

[laytonian]

I am going to say I don't get LE attitude. Why is it this police department didn't worry about anyone getting hurt or lost? Thousands turned out to search for her on Christmas Day, Even in SK case, start somewhere, and rule out places as you search. It's better than nothing.
Or just sit back and wait till someone stumbles across SK or SP. Well that could be never, like some of Ted Bundy's victims in Utah.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ng_maryland_girl_sarah_foxwell_11_found_.html

On the surface, it seems unfair. But the situations are entirely different.

I think they mobilized those thousands, because it was a small girl -- and they knew who'd taken her. The article doesn't say if one of the many searchers actually found her body....but it's a smaller area than we're talking about in the SP case.....and closely populated. Many people were "mobilized" to search for that girl, merely by searching in their own yards, barns and places that belong to them.

Several eastern states could fit inside the west desert of Utah. It's all public lands, so there's no "thousands" to mobilize to search their own property. There's another problem with the west desert: the bombing ranges and the possibility that people could come in contact with live munitions.

In Steven's case, it's close-together homes built on slabs. (Mentions of "crawl spaces" seem unlikely). Surrounded by desert public lands, quite similar to Utah's west desert.

 

[Fairy1]

Your heart is in the right place, and your willingness to go out and search for Steven shows how big your heart is. Unfortunately, no one knows where to look. The obvious places have been searched.

What makes this so hard? Steven didn't want to be found!

If he left to start a new life, he doesn't want to be found.

If he went there to somehow harm himself, he did so so he wouldn't be found.

If he went there for a job/appointment, it was in total secrecy (and if things turned out badly, it's because he started out not wanting to be found!)

Do we even have ONE scenario that says "find me!" ?? No. We have a last week filled with mysterious and (apparently) undocumented activities. A man who left everything behind, and was last seen walking in a strange neighborhood.

IMO, everything we DO know points to Steven not wanting to be found.

In my heart, I do believe he is alive and well. My 18-year-old son asked me weeks ago, "What if Steven doesn't want to be found? Maybe we should just leave it alone." Yep.

If I were to run into him tomorrow, what would I say? Please just call your Mom and let her know you're ok. If I thought he wasn't ok - I would call LE. But if he is ok and just wanted or needed started over, it's not my place to turn him in.

IMO, every single theory presented here since day 1 has merit - based on what we know. We all have our own gut feelings and are unlikely to sway others, but each theory is as good as the next.

I just don't know what to think at this point.

 

[dovebar]

There's still an unidentified body found in the canal, west of Sacramento.

The burned body I'm familiar with, was found in Redlands, CA.

Thank you for that detail.

The current news out of Vegas is just so full of bizarre crap that happens to ordinary people. It's such a bizarre place where ordinary people's lives intertwine too easily with the lowest of the low.

About not wanting to be found....perhaps. But I think if Steven were a woman, we wouldn't think that.

I wonder whether anyone has asked around SCA to see who was pouring a concrete slab for a new patio in the past three months. Abraham Shakespeare, in FL, isn't the first person to be found in someone's backyard.

 

[Fairy1]

Thank you for that detail.

The current news out of Vegas is just so full of bizarre crap that happens to ordinary people. It's such a bizarre place where ordinary people's lives intertwine too easily with the lowest of the low.

I'm sorry - but I have to disagree. I'm an "ordinary" person and have lived here for nearly 35 years and I have never been a victim of a crime. I work on the Strip and live in the burbs and nothing bizarre has ever happened to me.

Where are you getting your information?

 

[Fairy1]

Thank you for that detail.

The current news out of Vegas is just so full of bizarre crap that happens to ordinary people. It's such a bizarre place where ordinary people's lives intertwine too easily with the lowest of the low.

About not wanting to be found....perhaps. But I think if Steven were a woman, we wouldn't think that.

I wonder whether anyone has asked around SCA to see who was pouring a concrete slab for a new patio in the past three months. Abraham Shakespeare, in FL, isn't the first person to be found in someone's backyard.

The HOA would have to approve any resident's plans to pour a concrete slab - or anything else for that matter. If it was done "legally," the HOA would have a record of it. If it was done without HOA approval, the homeowner should have been cited by now.

 

[Paulette]

I finally watched the you-tube video of Steven parking his car. At 11:54:11 the car comes into view, at 11:54:18 it passes out of view. Steven continues driving down the street. At 12:00:10 Steven comes into view walking in the direction he'd just been driving.

Now who would do that? He's retraced the path the car just took! It appears that he purposely parked further away from where he was going.

I don't want to speculate on why he did this, but it sure is odd that on the very day he disappeared, he would do such a thing.

 

[rd_jfc]

Parking in the cul-de-sac (correct term?) doesn't leave much choice in that.

 

[RubyRed]

I finally watched the you-tube video of Steven parking his car. At 11:54:11 the car comes into view, at 11:54:18 it passes out of view. Steven continues driving down the street. At 12:00:10 Steven comes into view walking in the direction he'd just been driving.

Now who would do that? He's retraced the path the car just took! It appears that he purposely parked further away from where he was going.

I don't want to speculate on why he did this, but it sure is odd that on the very day he disappeared, he would do such a thing.

I think he parks there because

1) he was told to
2) he missed the street, so thought, WTH
3) some type of affair or one night stand ( I know it was daytime)
4) was going to be gone for several hours ,
5) was going to go for a long walk and loop around to come back to car.
6) something illegal (drugs) homeowners didn't want car at their place.
7) for no reason and was going to walk into desert.....
8) was intentionally going to disappear and knew car would be found (safe)

 

[laytonian]

If his car was found at a casino, I'd think he was there, eating, gambling or seeing a show, If it were at a mall, I'd think he was at a store. If it were at a strip joint I'd think he was there watching strippers. If it were parked in a cul-de-sac I'd think he was visiting or meeting someone.

If it were parked in one of the cul de sacs surrounded by homes (or on the street in a neighborhood), I'd think he was visiting someone.

With the car parked in that "only one like it" cul de sac surrounded by undeveloped land, it looks (to me) like a "car dump".
Somewhere it could be parked without being disturbed for awhile.

 

[carbuff]

(Don't tell anyone, but....I haven't looked at the front page since I first joined WS. I bookmark the threads, and go straight to them. I guess that's why I get so irritated when new threads are begun. ) I'm kind of a one case at a time person, so it works for me. Probably for no one else.

Yes, me too. I follow a bunch of cases, but mostly missing/UID matching where I feel like I can do something useful. I started following this one because my son is also named Steven, and he was in Las Vegas that weekend, and I keep thinking, 'It could have been him.'

 

[laytonian]

May I suggest, what was the pattern of what SK was doing? If you take the last month of his known activities, or maybe slightly more or slightly less if there was a clear demarcation (for example, maybe last three months when he had moved to his current small apartment), linearly continue the pattern over the last few days up to and including Sunday when he disappeared.

That implies, for example, that his driving in last few days was all part of that same pattern. The suggestion is that lacking any indication of communications concerning a major shift in activities, he was doing same thing he had been doing.

What was that?

My personal opinion is that trying to come up with a scenario to fit the facts is tempting when it doesn't make sense. But for example buying small Christmas gifts fo his young relatives during those drives is part of an indication of continuity, not drastic change, such as planning on ditching his car and running away, etc.

Another was to put it is the KISS principle. Barring evidence of a change to his life, the most likely explanation is that there wasn't any change to his life that he was planning. I know that's been covered pretty well in scenarios where he's continuing some type of business activity / promotion in that neighborhood that he had been carrying on, and what it could be and who with.

But I mean even more fundamental. What was he doing day in and day out for the previous month or two or three, and if that pattern continued is the only thing that changed long drives including to Vegas, where he disappeared?

rd

Good thinking.

I'll see if I can get any additional indicators from the family (other out-of-state purchases or in other directions from SLC).

We've already asked about previous Vegas trips, and his mother saw no Vegas charges on the bank account(s).

We have to remember that it wasn't unusual for him to drive from St George to SLC, to see the family. We don't know every time he did that, but we know he drove to SLC twice in November - plus the October drive (50 mils or so) to Cedar City for the Shakespearean Festival.

The family says he'd been in Vegas only once before, a family visit about four years previously.

OK, I JUST SENT A DETAILED QUESTION (and asking for specific dates/locations if there's any other "odd" receipts/bank account purchases before that last week). This might take awhile, and we also need Steven's mother to do some work.

Because it's so detailed, I'm not going to send any other questions, until we find out these answers.

 

[laytonian]

I finally watched the you-tube video of Steven parking his car. At 11:54:11 the car comes into view, at 11:54:18 it passes out of view. Steven continues driving down the street. At 12:00:10 Steven comes into view walking in the direction he'd just been driving.

Now who would do that? He's retraced the path the car just took! It appears that he purposely parked further away from where he was going.

I don't want to speculate on why he did this, but it sure is odd that on the very day he disappeared, he would do such a thing.

If you go to the timeline page, there's a satellite view of the area where the car was parked. You can zoom in and out on that map.

Find Anthem Parkway (it's a big circle around the neighborhood) and notice something odd: although there are cul de sacs with homes around them, there's NO OTHER cul de sac like the one Steven parked in. It has no homes circling it, and so it gave him a place to park without being in front of anyone's home.

In other words, it looks like a safe, private, undisturbed place to park.

What you don't see in the satellite view, is that there's a wall between that spot and Anthem Parkway...so it's not visible from that heavily-travelled road.

I've thought about this parking location a lot:

1 - He could have just got lucky, when he decided to park. (A right turn and an immediate left off Anthem Parkway, drive a block and he's there.)

2 - He could have driven around for awhile, looking for a "safe" and undisturbed parking space.

3 - Someone (familiar with the area) knew about that unoccupied dead-end, and gave him directions to park there.
BUT...if that's the case, how familiar were they really?
Did they not know about the security cameras?

That brings up questions for LE:
When did Mr Security install the cameras?
Why did he do so?
Why does he keep videos for so long?
Why was a fence installed at the end of the cul de sac (was it to merely separate the two neighborhoods and keep people from taking driving shortcuts, or had there been problems there in the past?)

:woohoo:
Any LE reading here? PLEASE. Most of our questions aren't really THAT investigatory ... just things that would lead to a concensus/idea.

 

[carbuff]

If you go to the timeline page, there's a satellite view of the area where the car was parked. You can zoom in and out on that map.

Find Anthem Parkway (it's a big circle around the neighborhood) and notice something odd: although there are cul de sacs with homes around them, there's NO OTHER cul de sac like the one Steven parked in. It has no homes circling it, and so it gave him a place to park without being in front of anyone's home.

In other words, it looks like a safe, private, undisturbed place to park.

What you don't see in the satellite view, is that there's a wall between that spot and Anthem Parkway...so it's not visible from that heavily-travelled road.

I've thought about this parking location a lot:

1 - He could have just got lucky, when he decided to park. (A right turn and an immediate left off Anthem Parkway, drive a block and he's there.)

2 - He could have driven around for awhile, looking for a "safe" and undisturbed parking space.

3 - Someone (familiar with the area) knew about that unoccupied dead-end, and gave him directions to park there.
BUT...if that's the case, how familiar were they really?
Did they not know about the security cameras?

That brings up questions for LE:
When did Mr Security install the cameras?
Why did he do so?
Why does he keep videos for so long?
Why was a fence installed at the end of the cul de sac (was it to merely separate the two neighborhoods and keep people from taking driving shortcuts, or had there been problems there in the past?)

:woohoo:
Any LE reading here? PLEASE. Most of our questions aren't really THAT investigatory ... just things that would lead to a concensus/idea.

In the photos Fairy took, it looks more like a gate than a fence. My guess is that LE (particularly the fire department) and SCA maintenance/HOA can open it for quicker access between neighborhoods. And yes, I imagine it's to cut down on shortcuts.

The condo complex my in-laws used to live in in Florida had a number of connecting roads like that. There, it was mostly for fire safety. There are standards for how long it takes a fire truck to get the farthest points of its coverage, and if it's too long, fire insurance rates go up. You don't want that when you're trying to sell condos to old people.

 

[NicoleinVegas]

I read today that some woman disappeared, they gave her belongings to her family, rented the room out again, and come to find out she was deceased the whole time under the mattress. Kind of creepy?

Do you guys remember the bus visual and SK being spotted in North LV or something? There are brand new Home Depots out there and a brand new Best Buy.

 

[laytonian]

I read today that some woman disappeared, they gave her belongings to her family, rented the room out again, and come to find out she was deceased the whole time under the mattress. Kind of creepy?

Do you guys remember the bus visual and SK being spotted in North LV or something? There are brand new Home Depots out there and a brand new Best Buy.

Yes, I told Fairy1 that there was a Home Depot on W Craig road very near the bus sighting. That tip was humorous, because there's a Deseret Industries and IHOP nearby (which makes it similar to the other tip we documented).
I didn't see a Best Buy very near there, though.

We have to remember, though, that the sighting apparently came *after* the reward was offered (Feb 26th)....and supposedly, "Steven" was at Home Depot in late January. That's some sighting.

 

[Mia]

A couple years ago, I spotted a woman on my street when I got home from work. I pulled into the garage and closed the door, but as soon as I got into the house, she was knocking on my front door. She said her son needed asthma medication NOW and she didn't get paid until the end of the week. She said she needed $10 and would bring it back as soon as she got paid. Now, I knew this woman was not from my neighborhood and I trust NO ONE, but being the Mom of an asthmatic child, I didn't want to be the one to come between her kid and his medication, so I gave her the money.

About 15 minutes later, I had to go back out and dang if I didn't see her still knocking on doors all over the place! My son tried to track her down, but I figured she needed the money more than I did!

I didn't feel threatened by her enough to call 311 or 911 and have never had anything like that happen before or since! I can't really believe anyone would feel threatened by Steven either.

Slightly O/T but this kind of thing happens all the time here in NYC! You'll be walking down the street and someone will stop you and ask to talk to you "just for a minute". Then they'll go on with some story about losing their wallet and needing thirty dollars to get home to NJ, or even worse it'll be a woman who says she just left her abusive husband or boyfriend and needs a hotel room for the night. There are thousands of variations on these stories, and when I first moved to NYC I was naive enough to give one of them money before "catching on", just like you did Fairy. But I'd say 99 percent of these people are frauds, and I've made it a personal policy never to give anyone money on the street, no matter what. Anyway, sorry you lost your ten bucks. I would have been furious.

 

[Mia]

I'm really at a loss with this case. Where are you Steven? If you don't want to be found, PLEASE just call LE and tell them so? Pretty please?

I am curious about something which I'm sure Laytonian knows the answer to. How extensively were the foothills around SCA searched? I believe I remember reading there had been minimal searches from air (although I could be wrong about that too), but have there been any foot searches? If so, how extensive were they? I'm in the camp that IF Steven is deceased, he is in the SCA area (or buried in the desert outside Las Vegas, like so many other poor souls). I have a brother, and if he had gone missing under Steven's circumstances, I think I'd turn into a full-time, amatuer PI. I couldn't help myself from spending my days knocking on doors, searching the hills around SCA, etc. And I don't understand how SK's family can sit at home and just wait for LE to call with more info. I'd be going stir crazy, and would have the need to 'do something', anything. I just really feel that SK has gotten the short end of the stick - everywhere I look I see "Help Find SP". What about Steven? And so many others?

 

[laytonian]

I'm really at a loss with this case. Where are you Steven? If you don't want to be found, PLEASE just call LE and tell them so? Pretty please?

I am curious about something which I'm sure Laytonian knows the answer to. How extensively were the foothills around SCA searched? I believe I remember reading there had been minimal searches from air (although I could be wrong about that too), but have there been any foot searches? If so, how extensive were they? I'm in the camp that IF Steven is deceased, he is in the SCA area (or buried in the desert outside Las Vegas, like so many other poor souls). I have a brother, and if he had gone missing under Steven's circumstances, I think I'd turn into a full-time, amatuer PI. I couldn't help myself from spending my days knocking on doors, searching the hills around SCA, etc. And I don't understand how SK's family can sit at home and just wait for LE to call with more info. I'd be going stir crazy, and would have the need to 'do something', anything. I just really feel that SK has gotten the short end of the stick - everywhere I look I see "Help Find SP". What about Steven? And so many others?

I don't know any more about the searches, than anyone else. Fairy1 had a chance, when she was at the press conference, to talk privately with someone "in the know" (not LE, not family). ATVs were used to search gullies, the foothills were searched by air, and many many people (locals/church members) walked the area. The family walked the golf course. The family started knocking on neighborhood doors even before LE and the missing persons people got involved.

We also have learned that after the area's heavy rains, drainage outlets and flood channels were checked.

I think the chance is very good that he's out there, somewhere. Did he walk and walk and walk, further than searchers have safely gone? Since the phone messages were checked early on Dec 14th, was he outside in that freezing night, huddled up in a small crevice or wind shelter? (In many cases of hypothermia, remains are in hidden places and only discovered when animals scatter bones and personal items.) Sad.

Yes, we'd all rather believe he's somewhere else, living another life (the only happy alternative). But I believe someone crafty enough to do that, who is also trying to prove something, would send some signal to his family. That hasn't happened.

Searches are tough. They didn't find Elizabeth Smart, even though thousands searched for weeks. (They got close, several times.) Mountains are tough to search; it's amazing how many hiding places there are....and the areas are larger than anyone can imagine.

All the publicity in the world (SP) isn't finding SP. 45,000+ people on Facebook aren't really "looking for SP". They're posting platitudes, and if it helps the family, it's good. I also doubt SP is where JP indicated he went. He had a plan, and part of it was to obfuscate.

ETA:
I think Naegle said something very wise in her Q&As: "If we assume he went missing on purpose then I suppose he could disappear for as long as he wants. In my opinion the first few weeks would be the hardest. By now I'd think it'd be easy."