Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #2 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[osadelnorte]

Do we know whether other people were working in the bodega at the time of the murder? I guess I can see where Hernandez may have felt confident enough to use the refrigerator if he knew he'd be alone long enough in the bodega to get the body out of there and into the trash before any other workers came in.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'd be surprised if he was left alone in the bodega long enough for that. He was only 18, a new employee and not particularly well known to the owners. Would they have left him alone all day long with the till?

 

[wfgodot]

Boulder PD < NYPD; Pedro Hernandez > Jon Mark Karr.

 

[osadelnorte]

I'd be surprised if he was left alone in the bodega long enough for that. He was only 18, a new employee and not particularly well known to the owners. Would they have left him alone all day long with the till?

I thought he was related to the owners?

 

[Cappuccino]

Boulder PD < NYPD; Pedro Hernandez > Jon Mark Karr.

Any PD can get a false confession, especially in a high profile case which they are under pressure to solve. Remember the Central Park Five.

I thought he was related to the owners?

You could be right. I thought I'd read the opposite, but I could be misremembering.

 

[impatientredhead]

Okay, I deleted one of my posts because I thought I had misread what was stated in an article but as usual the information provided is contradictory or so poorly written it can be interpreted in multiple ways.

The quote about his family being surprised is a prime example. They are surprised about what the hallucinations? the mental illness in general? the confession to police? the charges? the defense approach?

But to clarify he worked in the shop where he claims to have stabbed or strangled or both?, dismembered, and then stored the body in a freezer accessed by multiple people before removing the body when the "coast was clear" (when was that?!?!?!?) and carried the body a block and a half where it stayed undisturbed and unnoticed by trash pickers, newly paranoid and hyper aware neighbors where a child had disappeared in minutes, or by the sanitation workers who had much less automated equipment back then.

He killed Etan in the basement of where he worked, cleaned up the scene, left the body behind in a shared access location, went to Camden, during the investigation other people at the shop were questioned but Hernandez wasn't, he wasn't on the books as an employee but supposedly quit days later. So while this huge investigation was going on a very paranoid and odd behaving nineteen year old suddenly quit his job and left the area and even though the police had talked to the people who worked there and owned the shop he was never mentioned or interviewed. Even after quitting his job.

There is no physical evidence, no body, he has no souvenirs of the crime? Is that correct? He has told multiple people over the years but no one reported him, sans for one family member who claims his report years after the fact was ignored (could have happened or they don't want to take any heat now, no opinion there).

One of the other "men" who have been long standing suspects admits to taking a different child around that time, but not Etan? Rough day in the neighborhood!

My real concern here is that this a Mark Karr situation but this one is charged and if he pleas guilty no one will ever have to see a shred of proof. The books will just be shut and it will be considered resolved. If he dies from cancer that information source, however reliable it may or may not be, just goes away over night.

 

[impatientredhead]

Adding to my own post regarding the families surprise, I just read one article that says he never named Patz as his victim when he confessed previously so maybe they were surprised by that part of the story.

Although if his previous confessions did not name Patz as the victim how did a family member allegedly go to the police years after the fact and tell them the information? Why would they supposedly ask LE what took so long when they did come out to get a statement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...erson-implicated_n_1541900.html?ncid=webmail1

 

[Stargaze]

Police are less skeptical of Hernandez being a John Mark Karr for the reason that he did not come to them directly to confess. One of his family members called in after the recent publicity. Investigators then went to question him at which time he confessed. He's been living with his conscience for over 33 years, found God, revealed his secret a few times since. It's not surprising that he quit the bodega and moved away with Butler stopping in frequently to ask PH's brother-in-law if he'd heard anything new. What's difficult to understand is that there was no tracking of Etan's scent in the area around the bodega or alley or sidewalks. And that window of opportunity was very small if Etan left his house at 7:55 (as reported in the early NYT article) and the bus left at 8:00. It's doubtful that another 18 children and their parents were all still there - some may have been taken to school directly since they were already used to that from the strike. Still, it's hard to say how Etan was not spotted at all at the corner of W. B'way and Prince on that morning, as many people must have been at the bus stop by then.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Police are less skeptical of Hernandez being a John Mark Karr for the reason that he did not come to them directly to confess. One of his family members called in after the recent publicity. Investigators then went to question him at which time he confessed. He's been living with his conscience for over 33 years, found God, revealed his secret a few times since. It's not surprising that he quit the bodega and moved away with Butler stopping in frequently to ask PH's brother-in-law if he'd heard anything new. What's difficult to understand is that there was no tracking of Etan's scent in the area around the bodega or alley or sidewalks. And that window of opportunity was very small if Etan left his house at 7:55 (as reported in the early NYT article) and the bus left at 8:00. It's doubtful that another 18 children and their parents were all still there - some may have been taken to school directly since they were already used to that from the strike. Still, it's hard to say how Etan was not spotted at all at the corner of W. B'way and Prince on that morning, as many people must have been at the bus stop by then.

I think it's easy not to see someone or something if you don't know that you are supposed to notice them. In other words, there was nothing significant about that day for other parents and kids until AFTER they knew Etan was missing. In fact probably the most significant at that time was the bus driver being off his schedule. Things that would have stood out to the parents and kids were: new bus driver, the bus leaving early with only some of the kids on it (many parents - if they thought about it at all which is doubtful) probably just thought Etan was on the bus when it left early. The people waiting at that stop were probably in a minor fuss about the bus being early & the driver being new and messing up & were probably even less likely on that day to notice if any particular kid was there or not.

 

[Wondergirl]

Excuse the expression, but, if this is true, this gets filed in the "WTF" category.

Seriously?

According to the New York Times, Hernandez told fellow worshippers he had strangled a boy and left the body in a dumpster.

'He confessed to the group,' Mr. Rivera said.

Mr Rivera&#8217;s son, the Rev. David Rivera, is a Roman Catholic priest at a nearby parish - and explained that public confessions are fairly normal in charismatic groups.

Regular attendees grow hardened to them, he said, adding, 'If he confessed in the charismatic group, as many as 50 people might have heard him.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-throwing-remains-dumpster.html#ixzz1wC0aBFfE

 

[epiphany]

A longtime resident said the bodega&#8217;s owner at the time, identified as Luis, also used the basements of two neighboring businesses for storage and illegal cockfights.

Hernandez could have brought Etan&#8217;s body to a refrigerator that was either in a common storage area used by both businesses or in a space directly below the bodega where the owner&#8217;s wife cooked.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...n_fridge_UtKCVlOdG93RlWA9fxMSwI#ixzz1wC9yNqqg

 

[epiphany]

The grisly developments came as sources told The Post that NYPD brass pressured a reluctant Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. to OK Hernandez&#8217;s arrest, despite Vance&#8217;s concerns over a lack of corroborating evidence.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...n_fridge_UtKCVlOdG93RlWA9fxMSwI#ixzz1wCBiZGAo

IMO, this is politics. No problem here with NYPD arresting P Hernandez given his confession to others years ago, knowledge of details, etc.

Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance wants it both ways. NYC Police Commissioner does NOT bring charges against defendants. DA Vance wants credit if PH is good for it, and no part of it, if PH is not the killer. MOO

 

[Wondergirl]

So, PH carried the box with Etan in it, that night, in the midst of the police search (in the rain?).

Really?

Why did he say he put it in a Dumpster at the prayer group confession then?

But the grisly package remained there until the coast was clear and Hernandez could sneak it out to the street that night. He told cops he wound up carrying the box to an alley down the block and dumping it in other garbage that was later hauled off by a trash truck.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...n_fridge_UtKCVlOdG93RlWA9fxMSwI#ixzz1wCMdzQu3

 

[Wondergirl]

Regarding the prayer group, this statement is on their Facebook Group, according to ABC News:

In a Facebook post on its page, St. Anthony of Padua responded to The Times story
:
"At the time the confession in the prayer group would have taken place, the friars had not yet even arrived in Camden. But some members of the prayer group back then are still active in the parish. Please keep the Patz family and the Hernandez family in your prayers," the message said.

http://abcnews.go.com/News/etan-patz-suspect-reportedly-boys-body-store-freezer/story?id=16444148

Their Group:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/St-Anthony-of-Padua-Church-School-Camden-NJ/69271161295

 

[helpful]

Mr Rivera’s son, the Rev. David Rivera, is a Roman Catholic priest at a nearby parish - and explained that public confessions are fairly normal in charismatic groups.

Regular attendees grow hardened to them, he said, adding, 'If he confessed in the charismatic group, as many as 50 people might have heard him.'

Excuse the expression, but, if this is true, this gets filed in the "WTF" category.

Seriously?

I agree with you. Not ONE of those people saw fit to mention it to the police? Even if confessions are "fairly normal" in their group, I wouldn't imagine that many members have confessed to murdering a six-year-old child and then discarding his body in the trash. That's not remotely in the same ballpark as stealing a candy bar or coveting thy neighbor's wife, you know?

 

[Wondergirl]

Worshiper Recalls Admission by Patz Suspect Decades Ago


By MICHAEL WILSON, KIA GREGORY and NATE SCHWEBER

Published: May 27, 2012


The prayer group met regularly at St. Anthony of Padua, a Roman Catholic church in Camden, N.J., where behind the modest brick facade impassioned, spontaneous, full-throated &#8220;confessions&#8221; were shared.




Jessica Kourkounis for The New York Times

A church in Camden, N.J., that Pedro Hernandez, a suspect in the Etan Patz case, attended.

These meetings took place in the early 1980s, during a boom in charismatic Christianity that encouraged the dozens of participants to feel the Holy Spirit and unburden themselves of guilt for their sins.

As in the investigation into the prayer group, the police have not disclosed what, if anything, they have learned.

The charismatic Christian gathering in Camden that Mr. Hernandez attended 30 years ago was described as a free-for-all of admissions of guilt, sometimes shocking.

Mr. Rivera&#8217;s son, the Rev. David Rivera, a Roman Catholic priest at a nearby parish, said that public confessions, no matter how troubling, are common in charismatic groups, and that members of the groups grow hardened and numb to hearing them

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/28/n...l=1&adxnnlx=1338211250-v670woZWHUrfR5sIKw6mcw

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Hernandez later worked in construction but has been collecting disability payments since a 1993 back injury, police said.

SSDI is not just a check every month - it is also Medicare. Free health care for life. Not just for the injury that got you qualified for the benefit. Cancer patients can receive top quality care when Medicare is their insurance. New Jersey / NY area is a great area to be for receiving care. The prison system would be a step down for sure. Plus he now will lose his SSDI {both monthly check and Medical} - felony arrests are a disqualification. If he has the SMI benefit - that means even better health care for him. On the outside - not sure how far it gets him in prison.

 

[Steely Dan]

I agree with you. Not ONE of those people saw fit to mention it to the police? Even if confessions are "fairly normal" in their group, I wouldn't imagine that many members have confessed to murdering a six-year-old child and then discarding his body in the trash. That's not remotely in the same ballpark as stealing a candy bar or coveting thy neighbor's wife, you know?

I think all he said is that he killed a kid in NYC. I don't think he went into any more detail than that.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

I'd be surprised if he was left alone in the bodega long enough for that. He was only 18, a new employee and not particularly well known to the owners. Would they have left him alone all day long with the till?

Pedro's family owned the bodega.

 

[Mystic]

Do we know whether other people were working in the bodega at the time of the murder? I guess I can see where Hernandez may have felt confident enough to use the refrigerator if he knew he'd be alone long enough in the bodega to get the body out of there and into the trash before any other workers came in.

I was wondering that this morning, I would like to know if he was working alone that day. Etan was going to buy a soda and if Hernandez was alone, the door to the the bodega would be locked (with a sign 'be back in...' sign, as thats what is normally done). Hernandez easily could have lured the boy to the stock room to get his soda. kwim And was he loading stock from a truck to the stock room or from the stock room to the store???

...which makes me wonder about the garbage bag & box story. Basically, I'm even questioning if in strangling him, he only knocked him out.. since so far we know that he left town within a couple of days. Obviously even after all these years he's not willing to implicate that he's a ped. Hopefully more information is released. I'm leaning on that he did it.. apparently he had tremondous guilt in telling people thru the years but not enough to turn himself in. Killers are not mentally right although many pass off as normal. jmo