Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #3 *P. Hernandez guilty*

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This thread is now opened once more. Discuss Etan's case and no recent claims by a woman named Michelle or the Missing in America Facebook page.

Any further mention of EITHER could result in a loss of posting priveleges.
 
I saw this article http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...mount-expert-etan-patz-case-article-1.3367894 and then started noticing a number of similarities with the Hser Ner Moo "investigation" and other cases. I was living in nys when Etan Patz was in the news and remember the case.

It seems to be the norm now for low quality investigations in murders that are extremely high profile. Are these cases considered good to build a person's career on? Are these prosecuted in the hopes of a promotion or some other perk by the prosecutor?

Here is what I could quickly find on the Etan Patz case. If something is missing, say so.

1) Pedro Hernandez confessed.
a) His confession came after an enthusiastic interview by police
A detective from the NYPD missing person’s squad then set down the photo of Patz and said something to the effect of, “You know why you’re here.”
Hernandez, the source says, looked away and replied, in essence, “I’ve never seen that before.”
The detective is said to have responded, “You know you’ve seen that before.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-pedro-hernandez-confessed-to-killing-etan-patz
b) He does not appear to be telling the truth in the confession. Looking at him, as he speaks, the way he speaks and gives facts is problematic.
c) The actual substance of the confession is worse. He has the look of a bullied kid who was forced to say something to avoid a beating. [video=youtube;2DmysyADXXc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmysyADXXc[/video] Among other things 1) He says "I don't even know if it happened". 2) He says he put the body in a banana box which seems unlikely, but more unlikely is that he set the box down outside somewhere and nobody noticed it had a body in it, it just disappeared. 3) He says he strangled Etan who did not resist being strangled, but that he seemed to be alive in the box as he was carrying it, both implausible. He is doing the best his imagination can do but he has not watched enough tv shows to concoct a good confession.

One thing that stands out about his confession is the 'tentative' way he gives facts. It is clear that he is willing to negotiate any of the things he says. Even his hand gestures are asking if something needs to be changed. In other words he is saying 'These are the facts as long as you support me on them.' A person could easily adapt the confession in his mind so that he is killing Lincoln in the Ford theater. He would produce a confession of the same quality, just with a different victim and different era. Should he also be convicted of killing Lincoln, since he could easily be made to confess to that killing?

2) There is another suspect, somebody who the people who have studied the case most considered to be a likely suspect. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ry-named-etan-patz-coverage-article-1.1549072

3) Is there any evidence against the other suspect? There was never considered enough evidence to make a court case but there was some evidence gathered. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-etan-patz-case-boxes-evidence-20150224-story.html

39 pages of documents in the boxes that were records from a police officer involved in the investigation, who lived in the same apartment building where a man once considered a possible suspect lived at the time Etan vanished.According to the officer's notes, "many residents positively identified Etan Patz as having been in that building with Jose Ramos," Fontier said. Ramos never was charged in the boy's death, but he is in prison in Pennsylvania for convictions in unrelated child sexual abuse cases.

In a case like this the parents are so shellshocked by the crime that they cannot be asked to analytically examine the evidence. When the police had the first suspect the victim's family thanked the police profusely and considred it solved. When police moved on to prosecute another person the family again was very grateful. The public also is hesitant to hold the police to any standards in a case like this. People don't want to be in the position of appearing to defend a criminal of that sort.

What benefit do police provide when they 'solve' a case in this way? Who are they working for when they do that?

As with all such cases it seems strange that there is no supervisor on duty when police and prosecutors do something like this. Is there not an adult in the office?
 
Etan Kalil Patz

Last Seen: May 25th, 1979

New York City, New York County, New York


img_9249.jpeg

Physical/Clothing/Medical
Age: 6 Years Old
DOB: 05/25/79
Height: 3'4" (40")
Weight: 50
Hair: Sandy Blonde
Eye: Blue
Race: White
Sex: Male
Clothing: Black "Future Flight Captain" pilot cap pulled low below his eyes, a blue wide wale corduroy jacket with the name "Jeff" sewn on the inside, blue pants, and blue sneakers with fluorescent stripes
Jewelry:
Medical:
Transportation:
Dental Status: Dental information / charting is currently not available (04/13/18)
DNA Status: Samples submitted - Tests complete (04/13/18)

Circumstances:
Etan was last seen at 8:00 a.m. at Prince and Wooster Streets going to the school bus stop.

Pedro Hernandez was found guilty of kidnapping and murdering Etan in 2017


Investigating Agency:
New York city Police Department
Case No: KNMP8367
Sgt. Hill
Tele:212.694.7781

FBI
Special Agent Tom McDonald
Tele: 212.384.1000

NAMUS
MP Case # 6501
Case Manager: Helen Felch
Tele: 703.224.2150


Information Resources:
NAMUS Case No: 6501 - https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6501/0/
Charley Project: http://charleyproject.org/case/etan-kalil-patz
Doe Network: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/123dmny.html
Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Etan_Patz

News Sources:
Pedro Hernandez Found Guilty of Kidnapping and Killing Etan Patz in 1979
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/nyregion/etan-patz-pedro-hernandez-guilty.html

ETAN PATZ CASE: 1979 DISAPPEARANCE OF NYC BOY CONTINUES TO HAUNT INVESTIGATORS
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/etan-patz-1917-disappearance-of/
 
National Missing Children's Day: Find NYC's Lost Kids

The nonprofit National Center for Missing and Exploited Children was established by parents like John and Revé Walsh, whose 6-year-old son, Adam, was abducted from a Florida shopping mall in 1981 and later found murdered.

Before the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children existed, police could enter information about stolen cars, guns and other items on the FBI's crime database, but not stolen children. The Adam Walsh disappearance was among several tragic cases that illuminated the need for a nationwide, coordinated system to address the problem of missing children.

Others included Etan Patz, a 6-year-old who vanished from a New York street on the way to school in 1979.
 
To me this case is still unsolved. I honestly don’t think that Pedro Hernandez is the culprit solely based on the fact that he has a low mental state. I think that police forced him to confess because they wanted to close Etans case. For some reason I think that Etan is still alive. I wish that a newer age progression could be done.
 
Unfortunately, Etan is as dead as the Soho Weekly News.
 
To me this case is still unsolved. I honestly don’t think that Pedro Hernandez is the culprit solely based on the fact that he has a low mental state. I think that police forced him to confess because they wanted to close Etans case. For some reason I think that Etan is still alive. I wish that a newer age progression could be done.
I had mixed feelings about PH's guilt because there was another strong suspect. However, I have to respectfully disagree about Etan still being alive, unfortunately. While there have been a number of female child victims rescued as adults, I can't recall any male child victims rescued as adults. I do recall a couple of cases in which males have been rescued as teens after being held captive a number of years, after another young child has been kidnapped. IMO, perps are less likely to keep males beyond a certain age because males have the capacity to grow larger and stronger than their captor, while their captor grows weaker with age. IOW, females are easier to control as they age while males have the capacity to overpower their captor as they grow. Since a captor doesn't want anyone who can ID him to remain alive, the captor of a male child is likely to murder and dispose of his victim after replacing the captive with a new victim. JMO
 
I had mixed feelings about PH's guilt because there was another strong suspect. However, I have to respectfully disagree about Etan still being alive, unfortunately. While there have been a number of female child victims rescued as adults, I can't recall any male child victims rescued as adults. I do recall a couple of cases in which males have been rescued as teens after being held captive a number of years, after another young child has been kidnapped. IMO, perps are less likely to keep males beyond a certain age because males have the capacity to grow larger and stronger than their captor, while their captor grows weaker with age. IOW, females are easier to control as they age while males have the capacity to overpower their captor as they grow. Since a captor doesn't want anyone who can ID him to remain alive, the captor of a male child is likely to murder and dispose of his victim after replacing the captive with a new victim. JMO
I have accepted that Etan is a murder victim but I still think Ramos is the true suspect in this case.
 
I have accepted that Etan is a murder victim but I still think Ramos is the true suspect in this case.
You could very well be right about that. There were strong reasons to suspect Ramos. But, I do hope the jury got it right.
 
The Doe Network:
Case File 123DMNY

EPatz.jpg
EPatz1.jpg
EPatz3.jpg
EPatz2.jpg

Right: Age-progressed image of Patz at age 17 (circa 1989)

Etan Kalil Patz
Missing since May 25, 1979 from New York City, New York
Classification: Non-Family Abduction




Vital Statistics

    • Date Of Birth: October 9, 1972
    • Age at Time of Disappearance: 6 years old
    • Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 3'4; 50 pounds
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown hair; blue eyes.
    • Clothing: Patz was wearing a black Future Flight Captain pilots cap; blue corduroy jacket;
      blue pants; and blue sneakers with fluorescent stripes along the side.
      He was carrying a blue bag imprinted with an elephant design.
    • Dentals: Not available
    • DNA: Available




Circumstances of Disappearance
Patz was last seen walking to a bus stop in New York City, NY on Prince Street and Wooster Street at approximately 08:00.
He was en route to school; it was the first time he walked to the bus stop on his own.

Jose Ramos, a known pedophile currently serving time in a Pennsylvania prison for child abuse charges, is the prime suspect in Patz's disappearance. Ramos was a drifter and former mental patient who had a history of luring young boys while traveling across the United States in the 1970's. Ramos was in New York City at the time of Patz's disappearance and was an acquaintance of a former employee of the Patz family, a woman who escorted Etan to school during a short-lived bus-strike in 1979. The police believe Ramos may have been stalking her, that leading him to Etan. He also claimed he was with a child fitting Patz's description the day the boy vanished. He states that he approached the boy by saying he was a friend of the woman who used to work for the Patzes. A former cellmate of Ramos' claimed that he confessed to Patz's abduction and murder in 2000, claiming that he killed him and that authorities never will find the body.

The Patz family filed a wrongful death civil suit against Ramos and in May of 2004 the judge ruled that Jose Ramos is responsible for the disappearance and presumed death of Etan Patz. The judge declared Jose R. Ramos responsible for the boy's death because he disobeyed her orders to answer deposition questions under oath for a lawyer representing Etan's parents.
Patz has never been located.





Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
New York office of the FBI
212-384-1000
OR
New York City Police Department
Detective Frank Saez
1-212-694-7781


Agency Case Number: KFBC26321

NCMEC #: NCMC603392

NCIC Number: M-095614454
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:
The National Center For Missing and Exploited Children
The New York Post On-Line
MSNBC On-Line
The Villager
CA DOJ
 
I just wanted to note that Etan’s NCMEC poster has been taken down from the site. I cannot find an answer for why that has happened.
 

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