NY - Ex-President Donald Trump, charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023, Trial 25 Mar 2024 #2

[MyBelle]

I’d think sooner after last nights eruption! IMO

You could be right!

 

[waldojabba]

Yes, I know, I mentioned above that it appears to be legal that he's withholding that information. I just would like to know why.

<modsnip>

“Strategery “ imo

 

[10ofRods]

I think because Trump can't seem to control his constant outbursts of insults, in a month there will be a gag order.

And I'm sure his attorneys are thoroughly informed on the charges, and are doing the "break it down so the client understands" dance (if the client tolerates it) over the next week. Just because the public doesn't know all the details is not proof that NY isn't following its own laws regarding handing the charging documents over to the defense attorneys (probably did it before close of court yesterday, maybe today).

Clock is running. NY is graciously allowing much of it to remain non-public until the client has a chance to respond. Eventually, we'll all know what the charges are, but we have no right to know at this point in time. I think the judge has their hands full, as it is.

 

[Sillybilly]

Well, that'll teach me not to go grocery shopping

 

[RANCH]

Section 200.95 - Indictment; bill of particulars, N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law § 200.95 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 200.95 - Indictment; bill of particulars, N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law § 200.95, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

1. Definitions. (a) "Bill of particulars" is a written statement by the prosecutor specifying, as required by this section, items of factual information which are not recited in the indictment and which pertain to the offense charged and including the substance of each defendant's conduct encompassed by the charge which the people intend to prove at trial on their direct case, and whether the people intend to prove that the defendant acted as principal or accomplice or both,

More at link.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Well, that'll teach me not to go grocery shopping

A thousand apologies, SB. I should have bit my tongue.

 

[Emma Peel]

Well, that'll teach me to go grocery shopping

thanks for going to the gro b/c we were fresh outta chickenhawk and stuff.

 

[Emma Peel]

Section 200.95 - Indictment; bill of particulars, N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law § 200.95 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 200.95 - Indictment; bill of particulars, N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law § 200.95, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

1. Definitions. (a) "Bill of particulars" is a written statement by the prosecutor specifying, as required by this section, items of factual information which are not recited in the indictment and which pertain to the offense charged and including the substance of each defendant's conduct encompassed by the charge which the people intend to prove at trial on their direct case, and whether the people intend to prove that the defendant acted as principal or accomplice or both,

More at link.

thank u RANCH for bringing this statute to the thread.
This has been a point of confusion, which is understandable.

Indictment is a quick procedure; enough to get the suspect arrested - and if necessary, under custody.

The Defendant must request from Prosecutor the "Bill of particulars".

Here's the back and forth of these early procedures - along with exceptions, etc:

New York Consolidated Laws, Criminal Procedure Law - CPL § 200.95 | FindLaw

 

[waldojabba]

thank u RANCH for bringing this statute to the thread.
This has been a point of confusion, which is understandable.

Indictment is a quick procedure; enough to get the suspect arrested - and if necessary, under custody.

The Defendant must request from Prosecutor the "Bill of particulars".

Here's the back and forth of these early procedures - along with exceptions, etc:

New York Consolidated Laws, Criminal Procedure Law - CPL § 200.95 | FindLaw

Excellent education for me
thank you @RANCH and @Emma Peel

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm very curious. Can someone tell me what church Trump is a member of? Where he attends regularly?


Laying it on thick, Trump declared: “The main thing that our country needs, again, is religion.” He insisted: “I’m fighting, very hard for people of religion, people that believe in God.” Finally, Trump implored his listeners: “I want you to pray really hard, because we have to have a victory in 2024.”

MAGA Pastors: Trump Was Indicted for Your Sins

After his felony indictment, Trump surrounded himself by faith leaders who called his prosecution "demonic"

www.rollingstone.com

 

[MyBelle]

I'm very curious. Can someone tell me what church Trump is a member of? Where he attends regularly?


Laying it on thick, Trump declared: “The main thing that our country needs, again, is religion.” He insisted: “I’m fighting, very hard for people of religion, people that believe in God.” Finally, Trump implored his listeners: “I want you to pray really hard, because we have to have a victory in 2024.”

MAGA Pastors: Trump Was Indicted for Your Sins

After his felony indictment, Trump surrounded himself by faith leaders who called his prosecution "demonic"

www.rollingstone.com

According to this article, Trump grew up as a Presbyterian but is now non-denominational.

Trump Becomes the First President Since Eisenhower to Change Faiths in Office

Like many Christians switching churches, he now identifies as nondenominational

www.christianitytoday.com

Edited to add another link. Interesting to me that it is the evangelicals who support Trump who are very vocally calling his indictment a "witch hunt."

Will Trump indictment make white evangelicals ditch ‘imperfect vessel’?

White conservative Christians drawn to the ‘Make America Great Again’ slogan have long accepted that the former president is not an ethical paragon

www.theguardian.com

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I'm looking through the transcript of Bragg's press conference, and to my reasoning, he is pretty much spelling out what the underlying covered up/concealed crimes are - which upgrade the business fraud charges.

Read for yourself:

Manhattan DA outlines charges against Trump

I'll highlight what I think are the crimes @RANCH is asking for clarity on (snipped by me):

Why did Donald Trump repeatedly make these false statements? The evidence will show that he did so to cover up crimes relating to the 2016 election. Donald Trump, executives at the publishing company American Media Inc., Mr. Cohen, and others, agreed in 2015 to a catch and kill scheme.

The participant scheme was illegal. The scheme violated New York election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. The $130,000 wire payment exceeded the federal campaign contribution cap, and the false statements in AMIs books violated New York law. That is why Mr. Trump made false statements about his payments to Mr. Cohen.

So we have a catch and kill scheme that violated NY election law. We have payments that exceeded the federal campaign election contribution cap (illegal contribution in kind). We have AMI committing business fraud as well as part of the same scheme.

And in order to get Michael Cohen his money back, they planned one last false statement. In order to complete the scheme, they planned to mischaracterize the repayments to Mr. Cohen as income to the New York State tax authorities.

Tax fraud.

Take your pick, any/or/all of them would qualify as a crime being covered up by the falsified records. If they can prove knowledge or intent, they've got him.

 

[Missing Susan]

Guessing that it was at Trump Tower and done by Wesselberg sp? Probably during the time that Cohen was receiving checks in payback for the 130 thousand that he paid to Stormy Daniels. As I said, just guessing. jmo

I think the payback you surmise happens after trump resigns from his business organizations and takes office. Does this insulate him?

Trump Organization documents say he has resigned from more than 400 businesses

President Donald Trump says he has resigned from positions in hundreds of business entities, according to a document provided to CNN by the Trump Organization.

money.cnn.com

All of this happens over 6 years ago, what are the SOL implications?

 

[MyBelle]

I'm looking through the transcript of Bragg's press conference, and to my reasoning, he is pretty much spelling out what the underlying covered up/concealed crimes are - which upgrade the business fraud charges.

Read for yourself:

Manhattan DA outlines charges against Trump

I'll highlight what I think are the crimes @RANCH is asking for clarity on (snipped by me):





So we have a catch and kill scheme that violated NY election law. We have payments that exceeded the federal campaign election contribution cap (illegal contribution in kind). We have AMI committing business fraud as well as part of the same scheme.



Tax fraud.

Take your pick, any/or/all of them would qualify as a crime being covered up by the falsified records. If they can prove knowledge or intent, they've got him.

I think witness David Pecker will testify about his knowledge and intent.

 

[RANCH]

I'm looking through the transcript of Bragg's press conference, and to my reasoning, he is pretty much spelling out what the underlying covered up/concealed crimes are - which upgrade the business fraud charges.

Read for yourself:

Manhattan DA outlines charges against Trump

I'll highlight what I think are the crimes @RANCH is asking for clarity on (snipped by me):





So we have a catch and kill scheme that violated NY election law. We have payments that exceeded the federal campaign election contribution cap (illegal contribution in kind). We have AMI committing business fraud as well as part of the same scheme.



Tax fraud.

Take your pick, any/or/all of them would qualify as a crime being covered up by the falsified records. If they can prove knowledge or intent, they've got him.

Is this the law that Trump allegedly violated? If so It's a misdemeanor. I thought the secondary crime has to be a felony.

Section 17-152 - Conspiracy to promote or prevent election, N.Y. Elec. Law § 17-152 | Casetext Search + Citator

Does DA Bragg have jurisdiction on Federal election crimes? What tax law was broken? JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm looking through the transcript of Bragg's press conference, and to my reasoning, he is pretty much spelling out what the underlying covered up/concealed crimes are - which upgrade the business fraud charges.

Read for yourself:

Manhattan DA outlines charges against Trump

I'll highlight what I think are the crimes @RANCH is asking for clarity on (snipped by me):





So we have a catch and kill scheme that violated NY election law. We have payments that exceeded the federal campaign election contribution cap (illegal contribution in kind). We have AMI committing business fraud as well as part of the same scheme.



Tax fraud.

Take your pick, any/or/all of them would qualify as a crime being covered up by the falsified records. If they can prove knowledge or intent, they've got him.

I think they can prove knowledge and intent (with regard to the catch and kill scheme) in Cohen's Sept 2016 recording of his conversation with DT.

DT asks what do they have to pay (to catch and kill the story of Woman-1) .... "One fifty?"

The actual recording is in this NY Times article from July 2018.

Michael Cohen Secretly Taped Trump Discussing Payment to Playboy Model (Published 2018)

The F.B.I. seized the recording in a raid. Its existence recording highlights the potential legal and political danger that Mr. Cohen represents to the president.

www.nytimes.com

The transcript of the recording is in this Washington Post article, also from July 2018. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rump-michael-cohen-tape-transcript-annotated/

 

[RANCH]

I think the payback you surmise happens after trump resigns from his business organizations and takes office. Does this insulate him?

Trump Organization documents say he has resigned from more than 400 businesses

President Donald Trump says he has resigned from positions in hundreds of business entities, according to a document provided to CNN by the Trump Organization.

money.cnn.com

All of this happens over 6 years ago, what are the SOL implications?

I really would like to know if the statue of limitations can be extended to over six years in this case. I have my doubts. JMO.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Something else to remember is the former Manhattan DA Cy Vance is claiming he was told to stand down when he was the one looking into these allegations. This was during Trump's presidency when Sessions, then Bill Barr was in charge of the DoJ. The Federal SDNY office told his office to stand down pursuing the investigation. His impression was that they were implying they were going to pursue the investigation further and push for Federal charges. However, it appears he was mistaken.

Ex-Manhattan DA finally reveals why Trump wasn’t charged earlier in hush money case

Mr Vance replied that the Department of Justice, which typically holds seniority when it comes to investigating crimes, had asked his office to stand down its investigation into numerous aspects of the former president’s activities, presumably including the hush payments to Ms Daniels.

“Why didn't you charge the hush money case?” asked host Chuck Todd. “Why didn't you ever charge it in 2018, 2019, 2020?”

“[A]s I believe you know, I was asked by the US Attorney's Office in the Southern District to stand down on our investigation, which had commenced involving the Trump Organization,” said Mr Vance. “And as, you know, as someone who respects that office a great deal, and believing that they may have perhaps the best laws to investigate, I did so.”


But Mr Vance went on to say that he was surprised by – and apparently disagreed with – the decision of federal prosecutors not to pursue criminal charges against Mr Trump over the matter at the time.

JMO & wild speculations: but to me it feels suspiciously like there was also a larger 'catch and kill' scheme going on with Barr and the DoJ regarding Trump's numerous alleged crimes.

My guess is he was brought on as Session's replacement USAG for a very good reason. To be the fixer for Trump's ongoing criminal enterprise.

If you look at his conduct as USAG, esp. regarding Ukraine phone scandal and Mueller special investigation, I think it's pretty clear what his role was under Trump. And it certainly wasn't safeguarding the rule of law or protecting truth & justice. Just google William Barr and you will see all the articles about his history of helping US Presidents & officials escape accountability (all the way back to Iran Contra).

I'm bringing this all up to help give more context to why these charges and this investigation were possibly not as aggressively pursued between 2016 - 2020 as they should have been. Why it took so long to finally be ready to go ahead with a grand jury investigation from 2022.

All MOO.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I think the payback you surmise happens after trump resigns from his business organizations and takes office. Does this insulate him?

Trump Organization documents say he has resigned from more than 400 businesses

President Donald Trump says he has resigned from positions in hundreds of business entities, according to a document provided to CNN by the Trump Organization.

money.cnn.com

All of this happens over 6 years ago, what are the SOL implications?

I believe it's 2 years for misdemeanors and 5 years for felonies. But there is an exception, which is what may be in play here:

Periods Not Included in New York’s Statute of Limitations​

CPL Section 30.10(4) provides that when calculating the time limitation applicable to commencement of a criminal action, the following periods shall not be included:

(a) Any period following the commission of the offense during which (i) the defendant was continuously outside this state or (ii) the whereabouts of the defendant were continuously unknown and continuously unascertainable by the exercise of reasonable diligence. However, in no event shall the period of limitation be extended by more than five years beyond the period otherwise applicable under subdivision two.

(b) When a prosecution for an offense is lawfully commenced within the prescribed period of limitation therefor, and when an accusatory instrument upon which such prosecution is based is subsequently dismissed by an authorized court under directions or circumstances permitting the lodging of another charge for the same offense or an offense based on the same conduct, the period extending from the commencement of the thus defeated prosecution to the dismissal of the accusatory instrument does not constitute a part of the period of limitation applicable to commencement of prosecution by a new charge.

Bolded by me.

Source: Statute of Limitations for Crimes in New York

Since DJT has been continuously living outside of NY for many years (in Washington DC and Florida), the clock is basically stopped during those periods.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The unsealed indictment against former President Donald Trump on Tuesday laid out an unexpected accusation that bolstered what many legal experts have described as an otherwise risky and novel case: Prosecutors claim he falsified business records in part for a plan to deceive state tax authorities.

But bookkeeping fraud is normally a misdemeanor. For it to rise to a felony, prosecutors must show that a defendant intended to commit, aid or conceal a second crime — raising the question of what other crime Bragg would contend is involved.

On Tuesday, Bragg suggested that prosecutors are putting forward multiple theories for the second crime, potentially giving judges and jurors alternative routes to finding that bookkeeping fraud was a felony.

As was widely predicted, he is pointing toward alleged violations of both federal and state elections laws. By doing so, he is in part plunging forward with a premise that has given pause to even some of Trump’s toughest critics.

As a matter of substance, it can be ambiguous whether paying off a mistress was a campaign expenditure or a personal one.

As a matter of legal process, to cite federal law raises the untested question of whether a state prosecutor can invoke a federal crime even though he lacks jurisdiction to charge that crime himself. Still, Article 175 does not say that the second intended crime must be a state-law offense.

To cite state law raises the question of why New York election rules would apply to a federal presidential election, which is governed by federal laws that generally supersede state laws.

A Surprise Accusation Bolsters a Risky Case Against Trump

WASHINGTON — The unsealed indictment against former President Donald Trump on Tuesday laid out an unexpected accusation that bolstered what many legal experts have described as an otherwise risky and novel case: Prosecutors claim he falsified business records in part for a plan to deceive state...

www.yahoo.com