GUILTY NY - Garnett Spears, 5, dies of salt poisoning, Chestnut Ridge, 23 Jan 2014

[LinasK]

BBM: in a word...........................COST.................... as in who will pay for the hospital stay! :banghead::banghead::banghead:


Healthcare providers ARE relying on the words of the caregivers of the young, disabled & the elderly, vulnerable populations. That "reliance" is usually NOT a single reporting incident but rather a declared history of health "misadventures". It is amazing just how calculating & impressive some of the individuals reporting the patient history can be with terminology & "facts". :twocents::twocents: Today's multi-media world is permitting the public to witness some of the "swept-under the rug" life experiences others have tried to make/bring public! :tantrum:

Yeah, but the hospital and insurance companies are out the cost of an unnecessary surgery- equipment and salaries. (One poster in the chat thought she got the tube off the internet, but a Gastric Tube must be surgically placed). Besides the ethics of it. Many of these mothers with Munchausen's use feeding tubes as their vehicles for harm. Kate Parker in Oregon did too, but it was meds rather than salt.

 

[gitana1]

Also they should be weighing the children to see if they're gaining or losing weight. A nutritionist should be involved, as should a ST or OT for feeding/swallowing issues, and to confirm it, there ought to be a Barium Swallow or Modified Barium Swallow x-ray. My daughter has had Acid Reflux since she was a baby, and surgery is NOT the standard protocol, acid blocker medications are-orally.:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Also, if they suspected her and there weren't surveillance cameras in the bathrooms, why did the hospital allow Lacey to stay overnight with her son??? I think the hospital failed Garnett, and so did DHS.

and so did the members of the cult or community or whatever the fk they were living at. "The Fellowship" evidently didn't do squat for this little boy. I am so mad right now.

I don't blame anyone but the mother, right now.

These are notoriously hard cases to prosecute and even identify. Most people, even medical professionals, assume a mother is telling the truth when she talks about her suffering child, because what mother would ever lie about something like that? When you meet the charming, devoted mother in person, it's even harder to suspect she could be doing something wrong or lying. Who questions it? It is only after months that people begin to see that the stories don't add up or that something is wrong. That even goes for medical professionals who believe the parents and aren't looking for the problem to be with the parent.

By the time suspicions arise, and the people who are suspicious begin watching and trying to determine whether their gut is accurate, these crazy mothers typically take off and move out of the area, doctor shop, evade CPS, etc.

I don;t think DHS even had a chance to be involved in the case in New York before this woman killed her son. There was an open case in Florida and that's the only blame I place elsewhere- on states or the feds for lack of a continuous system that reports to other states.

But even then, it might not help, unless hospitals and doctor's offices are automatically flagged, which would be quite costly unless we had a central system that medical professionals must check whenever they get a new patient.

As to the people in the commune? (Which does not have a reputation for being a cult at all and actually sounds like a cool place for some: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/aging-commune-alternative-ny), most people there saw a very loving, devoted mother and a relatively healthy boy. A couple people thought Spears was "weird" and some felt confused about her son's supposed medical issues because he seemed healthy. But no one noticed anything that pointed to medical abuse until January, when Spears called a friend and asked them to hide evidence. Instead, what they did was immediately phone the police. So how on earth are they to blame at all?

If anything, the people there are victims, IMO and the elderly Spears cared for there may have been in serious danger with that wretch around.

 

[K_Z]

We had a discussion about feeding tubes over on the Kate Parker thread in "Parking Lot" forum.

Here's what I posted over there:

Those are really good and reasonable questions to ask. In a perfect world, any outpatient child that is reasonably developmentally intact should have a comprehensive evaluation prior to putting in a feeding tube. And those that are not developmentally intact should have even more evaluation and testing. There are lots of reasons why children have eating issues, from difficulties with texture and swallowing, regurgitation, aspiration, to simple "behavioral" issues of refusal of foods, or other behavior issues surrounding eating (tantrums, intentional gagging, etc). And the entire picture of their medical and behavioral conditions has to be taken into account during these evaluations. A child with behavior issues needs a completely different approach than a child who has, for example, a profound neuromuscular condition, or cancer treatments.

Here are some examples of these types of evaluations:

http://www.marcus.org/Menus/Document...ningForm08.pdf

http://www.choc.org/files/Feeding ...stionnaire.pdf

http://faculty.caldwell.edu/sreeve/E...ssessments.ppt

The reality is that a large proportion of these kids have the feeding tubes put in during an inpatient admission for some kind of exacerbation of their underlying condition. They may have had failure to thrive and feeding issues for a long time, but the hospitalization becomes the tipping point where the g-tube becomes a reasonable option long term. This is one instance where "to cut is to cure" often proves possible-- enteral feeds produce rapid improvement in the child's overall picture.

Once the tube is placed and the child is improving, there is reluctance to remove it, or pursue a bunch of testing to see how to transition to removing the tube. If the child is "ill enough", there is inertia in the will to get the tube out. It's circular logic-- the child improves, therefore the tube and enteral feeds are necessary and important to their care. And if the child DOESN'T improve (gain weight, etc), then no one will seriously consider removing it once it is placed.

In the case of medical child abuse, once the tube is in, there are lots of reasons why the parent may justify leaving it in for months to years, and doctor shop to find one in agreement.

And for kids who are actually sick, or have developmental or behavior issues, the parent is often relieved to be free of the burden of the hours and hours devoted to complex and frustrating feeding issues, and reluctant to go back to the way things were before the tube was placed.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The important point is that very few kids are admitted to same-day surgery "just" to have a feeding tube placed. It's usually placed during a hospital admission for an exacerbation of their underlying condition.

 

[K_Z]

Regarding cameras and surveillance in the hospital setting-- you can't just start secretly filming anyone you suspect.

Most major pediatric hospitals do have a couple rooms that can be used for surveillance, however, there has to be a lot of "behind the scenes" work done before the child is moved there for surveillance. Generally, there has to be a child abuse pediatric specialist involved, as well as a team of physicians that all agree that there may be a serious case of MBPS/ medical child abuse going on.

I'm not sure if there has to be DCF involvement now, also, or any court documents (like a search warrant). That may vary state to state. If meanmaryjean comes by, perhaps she can talk about this. I've been out of the pedes ICU loop for many years now, and the "rules" about how they determine when to go about surveillance have changed, I'm sure. It could be that each state has different rules.

Gitana1 may be willing to discuss how the surveillance has to be obtained so that it is legally obtained and admissible at a trial.

 

[K_Z]

It looks like she had 3 lawyers at the hearing. Does anyone know if these are court appointed?

No-- not court appointed, and a very reputable attorney (David Sachs-- former prosecutor.)

Discussed upthread:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY - Garnett Spears, 5, dies Jan 2014 of salt poisoning w/suspicious circumstances

I doubt Lacey Spears has much money, but I also doubt that she will be able to get a court appointed attorney. Once someone has been charged, the courts seem pretty reluctant to let a private attorney quit just because the client has no more money to pay them. I suppose the same attorney can agree to court-appointed rates, if the client files for indigence.

I suspect this attorney might be on the case till the conclusion. I think he has a lot of skill and experience, and will represent Lacey well. I'm convinced she will be convicted, so I want her to have good representation so nothing is overturned on appeal.

Again, perhaps Gitana1 can comment.

 

[NZkirsty]

How horrible. What that poor boy must of gone through so she could get attention. RIP xx

 

[K_Z]

The Rockland Fellowship Community is not a cult of any kind-- but a community living arrangement centered around a nursing home/ extended care facility for the elderly. Some of the workers have family members or children with special needs, so the living and working arrangements is very compatible for them. It's not a scam-- the workers are paid, the residents ("members") also pay, etc.

I researched it a bit upthread, with some links included:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY - Garnett Spears, 5, dies Jan 2014 of salt poisoning w/suspicious circumstances

 

[LinasK]

The Rockland Fellowship Community is not a cult of any kind-- but a community living arrangement centered around a nursing home/ extended care facility for the elderly. Some of the workers have family members or children with special needs, so the living and working arrangements is very compatible for them. It's not a scam-- the workers are paid, the residents ("members") also pay, etc.

I researched it a bit upthread, with some links included:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY - Garnett Spears, 5, dies Jan 2014 of salt poisoning w/suspicious circumstances

So why would Lacey Spears join a community like this? What's her connection to the elderly??

 

[K_Z]

Lots of health care workers had serious concerns about Lacey and Garnett. It wasn't just the open case in Florida-- there were concerns in Georgia.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/201...orts-social-services-florida-alabama/7367067/

Two years before that, in Alabama, Garnett almost died when he suffered seizures and was airlifted from Decatur General Hospital to Children's Hospital of Alabama in Birmingham. That episode in 2009 prompted a call to the state's Department of Human Resources, as did a series of other hospital visits that year that raised the suspicions of medical staff.

It looks like Lacey moved every 1-2 years, just as scrutiny increased.

 

[K_Z]

So why would Lacey Spears join a community like this? What's her connection to the elderly??

One article said she was looking for more "natural", holistic environment for him to grow and strengthen. More organic food, etc.

I suspect the cost to live there was low, and Lacey could make an income, have housing, and still be close to her son all day long.

There is a preschool and Waldorf school on property, too.

I think the camaraderie and social support was probably helpful, too.

For whatever reason, that lifestyle appealed to her. They were there about 18 months, from what I read.

 

[Bravo]

So very sorry little man. How you must have suffered so. The one who was to provide and protect caused your death in a slow painful manner :tantrum: Red flags missed. Breaks my heart to think how he should have been playing and enjoying the innocence of childhood. Instead he led a life of horror and pain. I get the disorder if she even has it. I hope her life is eternal he77. RIP Garnett. Mommy can no longer hurt you :banghead::banghead:

 

[K_Z]

and so did the members of the cult or community or whatever the fk they were living at. "The Fellowship" evidently didn't do squat for this little boy. I am so mad right now.

I'm not mad at any of them. I'm grateful to them on behalf of Garnett! From all accounts, he was much loved by the residents in the community. In fact, if the one neighbor/ friend hadn't been so honest and concerned, that feeding bag with the high sodium concentration in the living room of Lacey's quarters might just have gone into the trash, as Lacey intended. Instead, this friend of Lacey saved the bag and called police. Thankfully!! Preserving EVIDENCE to be used to prosecute her.

I think Lacey put on her "concerned mom of sick child/ cheerful, helpful hard worker" façade, and duped most of these kind, trusting people.

 

[K_Z]

Now that I've thought about the charges overnight, I think 2nd degree murder is probably right.

I don't think she wanted to "kill" Garnett-- she wanted to prolong his "sickness" for her own psychological benefit. I think she sort of "overshot" her intended degree of "sickness" with the last salt overdose. She may have even been surprised that he did, in fact, die that time. She's still a killer, IMO, and belongs behind bars for many decades.

 

[Bravo]

If Mommy Dearest researched it she had to know the lethal amount. She deserves Murder 1. IMO.

 

[borndem]

Please excuse if these are repeats...

Munchausen syndrome by proxyhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001555.htm# Bookmark & Share Printer-friendly version


Munchausen syndrome by proxy is a form of child abuse in which a parent induces real or apparent symptoms of a disease in a child.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001555.htm

---------------------------------
​

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lty-to-poisoning-her-5-year-old-son-to-death/

 

[LinasK]

One article said she was looking for more "natural", holistic environment for him to grow and strengthen. More organic food, etc.

I suspect the cost to live there was low, and Lacey could make an income, have housing, and still be close to her son all day long.

There is a preschool and Waldorf school on property, too.

I think the camaraderie and social support was probably helpful, too.

For whatever reason, that lifestyle appealed to her. They were there about 18 months, from what I read.

Yeah, but was she working in the nursing home? In what capacity? Any of her previous employers should be scared, very scared!
ETA: I read the chapter on them of her saga- Part 5, and it sounds like she moved there to get away from being questioned in her previous community about his ear infections, and this community didn't question any of her parenting.

 

[LinasK]

Spears told police she sometimes used “a pinch of salt” for flavor when feeding her son and that once in a while he would play with the syringe she used to feed him, claiming it was possible he put something in his tube.

<snip>Spears said that if she gave her son the wrong medication or if she mixed in something that killed him, it was not her fault because those medications were prescribed. She said she did not murder him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lty-to-poisoning-her-5-year-old-son-to-death/

 

[gitana1]

So why would Lacey Spears join a community like this? What's her connection to the elderly??

She was into the hippy thing and she also moved a lot to evade suspicion.

If Mommy Dearest researched it she had to know the lethal amount. She deserves Murder 1. IMO.

I researched what she did and saw nothing about lethal amounts or even lethality at all, except long term risk of stroke.

 

[gitana1]

Regarding cameras and surveillance in the hospital setting-- you can't just start secretly filming anyone you suspect.

Most major pediatric hospitals do have a couple rooms that can be used for surveillance, however, there has to be a lot of "behind the scenes" work done before the child is moved there for surveillance. Generally, there has to be a child abuse pediatric specialist involved, as well as a team of physicians that all agree that there may be a serious case of MBPS/ medical child abuse going on.

I'm not sure if there has to be DCF involvement now, also, or any court documents (like a search warrant). That may vary state to state. If meanmaryjean comes by, perhaps she can talk about this. I've been out of the pedes ICU loop for many years now, and the "rules" about how they determine when to go about surveillance have changed, I'm sure. It could be that each state has different rules.

Gitana1 may be willing to discuss how the surveillance has to be obtained so that it is legally obtained and admissible at a trial.

I;m not sure. I do know that video-taping without patient consent is a violation of HIPAA. I imagine that a criminal investigation may override HIPAA as threats of imminent harm can trump privilege.

 

[gitana1]

Here's the indictment: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1200672-lacey-spears-indictment.html

She got free room and board at the Fellowship.