NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

[Trackergd]

OldSteve asked me to look at the details of this case. I will have to read back over 60 pages of text, so give me a bit of time. A rock is a weapon of opportunity. I would think that anyone who commits this type of crime on a regular basis would have the "tools of the trade" at hand. To me it speaks of impulse, opportunity and either lack of planning or lack of resources (few possessions). The degree of the struggle speaks to an individual of size, strength and some degree of skill.

At this point, unless some really good forensics team took lots of pictures of the surrounding area, any footprints I would work from are long gone. In wooded, grassy or dirty/dusty locations, the entire story is on the ground...until well meaning folks inadvertently walk all over the print field.

1/4 of the clues to this case is the attacker's egress route...into and out of the crime scene. How did he get there, did he go back the way he came or another way and which direction(s).

 

[MarcBerlin]

Does somebody know if large enough stones/rocks lie around there at that park, or has a criminal to bring it with him to the scene?

The vagrant theory seems a bit too stereotypically to me. Do not think the killer was a vagrant.

If a rock was used maybe the criminal wanted to knock her out cold, then rape her and leave unidentified the scenery after the rape when she is alive but unconscious - but she recovered very fast and fought against him, so he strangled her neck with so much force as a consequence of finding himself unprepared of a situation the victim resists so much.
This is just a thought in case a rock was used which is not confirmed yet.

 

[Inthedetails]

OldSteve asked me to look at the details of this case. I will have to read back over 60 pages of text, so give me a bit of time. A rock is a weapon of opportunity. I would think that anyone who commits this type of crime on a regular basis would have the "tools of the trade" at hand. To me it speaks of impulse, opportunity and either lack of planning or lack of resources (few possessions). The degree of the struggle speaks to an individual of size, strength and some degree of skill.

At this point, unless some really good forensics team took lots of pictures of the surrounding area, any footprints I would work from are long gone. In wooded, grassy or dirty/dusty locations, the entire story is on the ground...until well meaning folks inadvertently walk all over the print field.

1/4 of the clues to this case is the attacker's egress route...into and out of the crime scene. How did he get there, did he go back the way he came or another way and which direction(s).

Great! Glad to have you here.

Please do read the threads. There are maps of the parkland, the Weeds, were she was found in the thread. Video shows her running toward an entrance to the area, but the video doesn't show anyone else entering.

Looking forward to more insights you have.

 

[stmarysmead]

Why do you say that? Being stunned doesn't not mean being knocked unconscious.

I'm saying that because the act of dragging her off the trail to where she was found...requires a period of passivity.

I took a bad fall (flip) on ice in a parking lot once and hit the back of my head. I was stunned...not unconcious...but definitely dazed and shaky. Remembering how I felt...I cannot imagine being "ferocious" any time soon after.

I think KV did put up a ferocious fight. Her own Mother said the Killer knew she was "a force to be reckoned with." I'm just not believing this new detail about "the Rock"...until I see it officially confirmed.

It's so hot,humid and buggy in those weeds...I think by the time this Vagrant hunted around in the thickness of those weeds for this rock...KV would have been long gone. I just don't think he was pre-armed either.. lying in wait.

But we shall see...I certainly could be wrong.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm saying that because the act of dragging her off the trail to where she was found...requires a period of passivity.

I took a bad fall (flip) on ice in a parking lot once and hit the back of my head. I was stunned...not unconcious...but definitely dazed and shaky. Remembering how I felt...I cannot imagine being "ferocious" any time soon after.

I think KV did put up a ferocious fight. Her own Mother said the Killer knew she was "a force to be reckoned with." I'm just not believing this new detail about "the Rock"...until I see it officially confirmed.

It's so hot,humid and buggy in those weeds...I think by the time this Vagrant hunted around in the thickness of those weeds for this rock...KV would have been long gone. I just don't think he was pre-armed either.. lying in wait.

But we shall see...I certainly could be wrong.

deleted post.....nevermind.... Need more coffee.

 

[liz b.]

I'm saying that because the act of dragging her off the trail to where she was found...requires a period of passivity.

I took a bad fall (flip) on ice in a parking lot once and hit the back of my head. I was stunned...not unconcious...but definitely dazed and shaky. Remembering how I felt...I cannot imagine being "ferocious" any time soon after.

I think KV did put up a ferocious fight. Her own Mother said the Killer knew she was "a force to be reckoned with." I'm just not believing this new detail about "the Rock"...until I see it officially confirmed.

It's so hot,humid and buggy in those weeds...I think by the time this Vagrant hunted around in the thickness of those weeds for this rock...KV would have been long gone. I just don't think he was pre-armed either.. lying in wait.

But we shall see...I certainly could be wrong.

I seem to recall reading that she had grass in her hand(s) ? As though she had clutched the grass as she was being dragged ? I'm not too sure about the rock story either. Will wait until LE confirms or denies it...jmo

 

[Elainera]

If she was hit over the head, could it have been with something other than a rock? Maybe at this point LE is only guessing that it was a rock (if in fact the whole statement about being hit with a rock is true and not speculation on part of the profiler who seems not to be part of the investigation).

What items hard and heavy enough do people carry around with them?

 

[x_files]

If she was hit over the head, could it have been with something other than a rock? Maybe at this point LE is only guessing that it was a rock (if in fact the whole statement about being hit with a rock is true and not speculation on part of the profiler who seems not to be part of the investigation).

What items hard and heavy enough do people carry around with them?

A blackjack.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Karina's case continues to garner worldwide media attention. I found this while searching for new MSM coverage and thought I'd share:

From Australia:
Karina Vetrano: Murdered NYC jogger blamed for running at night | Stop victim blaming
[...]

The bottom line is, women should be able to run at night and feel safe.

Nike has addressed the fact that millions of women across the world are too scared to jog alone at night with their “We Own the Night” initiative.
[...]
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fi...m/news-story/3227c17ad145029885f09ddf1317b4c8

Nike News - We Own The Night News
http://news.nike.com/we-own-the-night

#RIPKarina


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[Inthedetails]

Karina's case continues to garner worldwide media attention. I found this while searching for new MSM coverage and thought I'd share:

From Australia:
Karina Vetrano: Murdered NYC jogger blamed for running at night | Stop victim blaming
[...]

The bottom line is, women should be able to run at night and feel safe.

Nike has addressed the fact that millions of women across the world are too scared to jog alone at night with their “We Own the Night” initiative.
[...]
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fi...m/news-story/3227c17ad145029885f09ddf1317b4c8

Nike News - We Own The Night News
http://news.nike.com/we-own-the-night

#RIPKarina


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It wasn't night. It was daylight, late afternoon on a summer day.

 

[kimi_SFC]

OldSteve asked me to look at the details of this case. I will have to read back over 60 pages of text, so give me a bit of time. A rock is a weapon of opportunity. I would think that anyone who commits this type of crime on a regular basis would have the "tools of the trade" at hand. To me it speaks of impulse, opportunity and either lack of planning or lack of resources (few possessions). The degree of the struggle speaks to an individual of size, strength and some degree of skill.

At this point, unless some really good forensics team took lots of pictures of the surrounding area, any footprints I would work from are long gone. In wooded, grassy or dirty/dusty locations, the entire story is on the ground...until well meaning folks inadvertently walk all over the print field.

1/4 of the clues to this case is the attacker's egress route...into and out of the crime scene. How did he get there, did he go back the way he came or another way and which direction(s).

Good to have you on Karina's case, Trackergd! :sleuth:

( :gthanks: OldSteve! )


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[Elainera]

A blackjack.

I don't know what a blackjack is so I googled but all it comes up with is a card game?

 

[x_files]

I don't know what a blackjack is so I googled but all it comes up with is a card game?

blackjack weapon or known as a baton. It can be deadly. I could easily see a rapist having one. Small easy to conceal.

"a hand weapon typically consisting of a piece of leather-enclosed metal with a strap or springy shaft for a handle." according to wikipedia.

 

[OldSteve]

OldSteve asked me to look at the details of this case. I will have to read back over 60 pages of text, so give me a bit of time. A rock is a weapon of opportunity. I would think that anyone who commits this type of crime on a regular basis would have the "tools of the trade" at hand. To me it speaks of impulse, opportunity and either lack of planning or lack of resources (few possessions). The degree of the struggle speaks to an individual of size, strength and some degree of skill.

At this point, unless some really good forensics team took lots of pictures of the surrounding area, any footprints I would work from are long gone. In wooded, grassy or dirty/dusty locations, the entire story is on the ground...until well meaning folks inadvertently walk all over the print field.

1/4 of the clues to this case is the attacker's egress route...into and out of the crime scene. How did he get there, did he go back the way he came or another way and which direction(s).

Thanks so much for being here - as always, your insight and expertise is most appreciated!

 

[jillycat]

I wouldn't think that a severe beating in an assault and murder case would be the indicator for whether or not the victim fought back. I would think that evidence and a coroner's report would inform about that.

I also don't see a vagrant with a rock in all this. And I'm surprised that all these details and scenarios are being floated by LE or others suggesting they got their info from LE.

 

[Lawdini01234]

I'm saying that because the act of dragging her off the trail to where she was found...requires a period of passivity.

I took a bad fall (flip) on ice in a parking lot once and hit the back of my head. I was stunned...not unconcious...but definitely dazed and shaky. Remembering how I felt...I cannot imagine being "ferocious" any time soon after.

I think KV did put up a ferocious fight. Her own Mother said the Killer knew she was "a force to be reckoned with." I'm just not believing this new detail about "the Rock"...until I see it officially confirmed.

It's so hot,humid and buggy in those weeds...I think by the time this Vagrant hunted around in the thickness of those weeds for this rock...KV would have been long gone. I just don't think he was pre-armed either.. lying in wait.

But we shall see...I certainly could be wrong.

That particular day it was not hot, humid or muggy out. I left Connecticut about 5pm and when I arrived home in New York off the ferry and at home it was what I would consider a mild summer day.

Regardless of the weather I don't think the weeds would have rocks laying about. However there is shoreline right there.

I'm not believing the rock comment either until all the details come out. I actually shared the article and said I didn't know where this fbi profiler got her info from. Just as many of the MSM articles that get there comments from a "source" you can only take it for what it's worth.

Unfortunately (for us on WS trying to piece this together) details/facts about the case, I think, will be kept hush hush unless an arrest is made and it goes to trial.

 

[kimi_SFC]

If you make an IP data search for the website she run "karinavee.com" publishing her poems at it, the information are as follows:

Karina Vetrano, 164-30 84st, Howard Beach, New York 11414, UNITED STATES, Telephone: 917 6848002, Email karina11@aol.com

This informations are available to every person on earth who knows Karina's website and is searching for the domain owners adress and contact details.

As blog-owner, I'm wondering what analytics might be available for LE for forensic analysis? Certain blogs allow you to view IP addresses of every person who accesses your site. I do hope this angle is being explored now. :moo:

deception – a collection of conversations, contradictions, & poetic conflicts

http://karinavee.com/?p=156

ETA: her site was built on WordPress (Google), so there has to be a cache somewhere :crossfingers:

Google Analytics — Support — WordPress.com
https://en.support.wordpress.com/google-analytics/

#JusticeForKarina....



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[Lawdini01234]

I wouldn't think that a severe beating in an assault and murder case would be the indicator for whether or not the victim fought back. I would think that evidence and a coroner's report would inform about that.

I also don't see a vagrant with a rock in all this. And I'm surprised that all these details and scenarios are being floated by LE or others suggesting they got their info from LE.

When People magazine(?) posted about her biting the perp so hard her teeth broke and it was from a "source" I personally didn't take it as credible. I feel that unless I hear a LEO state these things or that they are cited in an article then everything else is hear say to me.

 

[margarita25]

[...]rsbm

The bottom line is, women should be able to run at night and feel safe.

Nike has addressed the fact that millions of women across the world are too scared to jog alone at night with their “We Own the Night” initiative.
[...]
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fi...m/news-story/3227c17ad145029885f09ddf1317b4c8

Nike News - We Own The Night News
http://news.nike.com/we-own-the-night

#RIPKarina


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm afraid any woman, jogging alone, day or night, but especially at night, will always be a potential target. It's just the way it is. Soooo many predators out there. I wish we could be safe, but the reality is we are not and probably never will be, no matter where we are. We have to be on guard and watch our backs 24/7. It's us against them. I do not feel safe ever. Those days are gone. Moo.

 

[Inthedetails]

When People magazine(?) posted about her biting the perp so hard her teeth broke and it was from a "source" I personally didn't take it as credible. I feel that unless I hear a LEO state these things or that they are cited in an article then everything else is hear say to me.

I'm doubting that story too, at least the specifics...though I do think either her teeth were broken or knocked out, or her face was so severely beaten that it was assumed she suffered tooth damage and someone leaked the info or spoke when they shouldn't have.

Still....I HOPE she bit him.

jmopnion