NY NY - Leslie, 29, Julie, 6, & Timothy Guthrie, 3, drove away from home, Katonah, 6 Feb 1977

[Jmoose]

OK, if I could get a little local help, it would be appreciated for my "wild goose chase". One of the articles I came across on this case stated that Leslie was leaving Katonah with the kids to pick up her Mother at 5PM at IBM in Armonk, NY. I have no way to verify this, but bear with me. Using my hypothesis that Leslie did not travel I-684, but rather may have used Route 22 or 118, can anyone verify if the current IBM location was where they were located in 1977? I found a news article from 1977 stating that IBM was looking to move to a new site?

I think it is entirely possible, in fact probable that she avoided 684, and took route 22, but I doubt that she was on route 118, because it doesn’t go anywhere near Armonk. I’ve always thought that she took 22. And since the roads were getting bad, I can tell you that in the same circumstances, I’ve also avoided the highway, where traffic moves very fast, in favor of a smaller road, where it doesn’t. But of course, the highway’s conditions may have been much better than what it would have been on 22.

 

[stygianowl]

I found what appears to be a submerged item in a little pond off the 684 exit near Katonah. I can't tell what it is exactly, it appears square, but it could be nothing.
If this body of water was flooded back in the day to make a water reservoir, it's not unheard of for old houses and buildings to be underwater, so it could be that. My state has a submerged town from water management/conservation. Here are some pictures from Google Earth.
I can't tell how big it is from the map perspective.
View attachment 263167 View attachment 263168

If you google "Guthrie family again... do I see something here or no?" you should be able to find a discussion of this very same thing visible on Google Earth re: the Guthrie family.

 

[VaYank5150]

Thank you for taking the time to work on this with me. Based on the Google maps I see, I wonder if a good search location could be the intersection of RT 22 and RT 120. IF she was going to pick up her Mom, this is a curve that she may have taken. I wish I knew how to post the images from Google Maps/Earth as it would make this much easier to understand.

 

[VaYank5150]

If you google "Guthrie family again... do I see something here or no?" you should be able to find a discussion of this very same thing visible on Google Earth re: the Guthrie family.

Thank you so much for your willingness to help me with my wild goose chase. I have seen that posting, but IIRC it is assuming Leslie took I-684 and I am of the opinion that perhaps she stayed off the interstate and maybe took an alternate route.

 

[stygianowl]

Thank you so much for your willingness to help me with my wild goose chase. I have seen that posting, but IIRC it is assuming Leslie took I-684 and I am of the opinion that perhaps she stayed off the interstate and maybe took an alternate route.

Yes, the reason I posted that was mainly in case people hadn't seen that that was checked out & it appears there is no car there.

 

[stygianowl]

Thank you for taking the time to work on this with me. Based on the Google maps I see, I wonder if a good search location could be the intersection of RT 22 and RT 120. IF she was going to pick up her Mom, this is a curve that she may have taken. I wish I knew how to post the images from Google Maps/Earth as it would make this much easier to understand.

I agree that is certainly a likely-looking place for a car headed south on rt 22 to slide off into Kensico Res. There's a guardrail there now, but no idea if there was one there in 1977.

 

[VaYank5150]

I agree that is certainly a likely-looking place for a car headed south on rt 22 to slide off into Kensico Res. There's a guardrail there now, but no idea if there was one there in 1977.

Thank you again. I have to assume that IF there were a guardrail in place at the time, and a car smashed through it, somebody would have noticed, even if it were the State repair crews. I have reached out to the local BASS fishing club that utilizes Kensico Reservoir/Lake as their home in hopes that some of their members have high performance fish finding equipment and might be willing to look.

 

[stygianowl]

Thank you again. I have to assume that IF there were a guardrail in place at the time, and a car smashed through it, somebody would have noticed, even if it were the State repair crews. I have reached out to the local BASS fishing club that utilizes Kensico Reservoir/Lake as their home in hopes that some of their members have high performance fish finding equipment and might be willing to look.

Asking the bass fishing club sounds like a great idea. Farther south, also on rt. 22 next to Kensico Res.,
41.102613, -73.739028 and
41.086313, -73.756418
are both locations where it seems a car headed south could end up going into the reservoir in bad weather. As in your previous location, there is a guardrail along the reservoir side of the road in both places now.

 

[stygianowl]

41.098409, -73.741023 looks like another possible location.

 

[stygianowl]

Just remembered that they were supposed to pick up Leslie's mother at IBM in Armonk, & so if they were headed there from the Katonah area to get her on the way back to White Plains, the intersection of rts. 22 & 120 does make more sense, as that's on the way.

 

[Jmoose]

I’ve only lived here since 1992, and IBM was there at that time (and no longer is, as of just a couple of years ago). I’ll see if I can find out

Oops-thinking of the IBM in Somers...

 

[VaYank5150]

Just remembered that they were supposed to pick up Leslie's mother at IBM in Armonk, & so if they were headed there from the Katonah area to get her on the way back to White Plains, the intersection of rts. 22 & 120 does make more sense, as that's on the way.

I agree that there are multiple locations and yours are just as legitimate as mine. I just WISH I knew more details about her trip from Katonah and which route she may have taken. I feel it in my belly that she ended up in the water. It is simply too difficult to completely erase a 1970 Maverick....

 

[Jmoose]

I agree that there are multiple locations and yours are just as legitimate as mine. I just WISH I knew more details about her trip from Katonah and which route she may have taken. I feel it in my belly that she ended up in the water. It is simply too difficult to completely erase a 1970 Maverick....

Yes, my feeling also is that they are all in her car, in one of those bodies of water. I cannot imagine how they can or will be found, though

 

[VaYank5150]

Yes, my feeling also is that they are all in her car, in one of those bodies of water. I cannot imagine how they can or will be found, though

I know it is not cheap to run sonar in these situations, and I completely get that the monetary resources may simply not be available to the Bedford County Police Department, which is why I am trying to find alternative volunteer options. However, I have stopped short of actually calling the detectives who are now associated with this case because I just feel "weird" in doing so. I can't explain it, but I do not want to waste their valuable time and besides who the heck am I to question them. Does anyone else get this feeling? Do we as private citizens have any right or justification to call out the local police?

 

[VaYank5150]

I finally got up the nerve to call the Bedford Police. I had to leave a VM for the Detective Sergeant, but at least I called. We will see if he calls back.

 

[VaYank5150]

Wow. I just had a very pleasant conversation with Detective Haynes of the Bedford Police Department. I kept apologizing if I was wasting his time, but he kept responding "No. We will take anything we can get our hands on for help on this."

Detective Haynes stated he has been assigned this case for 12 years now. He initially agreed with the original police assumption that there was no way Leslie's Maverick could have crashed through the ice, but has since changed his mind and now feels that her car probably IS in a body of water.

Unfortunately, there is no known route of travel for Leslie on the day she and her children disappeared. However, like me he thinks it unlikely that she used I-684 as had she had an accident in the middle of the day, it is unlikely that no one saw it happen, or leave evidence on the newly constructed interstate. He admitted that she was supposed to pick up her Mother from IBM in Armonk that day, and did not arrive. Detective Haynes also mentioned that she had relatives in Ohio, who she may have attempted to visit, but there is no way to confirm this.

Detective Haynes stated that they have used drones, sonar, divers, boats, etc. to search many of the bodies of water between Katonah and White Plains to no avail. He actually mentioned the photo that is seen in this thread and how they acted on it only to find no car.

I was pleasantly surprised by Detective Haynes' willingness to discuss all of this with me, and while I did not find out any additional information that can help us put this case to rest, I will continue my efforts.

 

[VaYank5150]

I have now reached out to another volunteer group Team Watters Sonar – Specialists in water search and recovery using side image sonar equipment. who may be willing to assist.

 

[Alleykins]

So they checked out the body of water I screen-captured to see if it were a vehicle, but found nothing at all? Not even a submerged house or large rock?

 

[VaYank5150]

So they checked out the body of water I screen-captured to see if it were a vehicle, but found nothing at all? Not even a submerged house or large rock?

I found this in the "Let's talk about it" section of the Charley Project Blog:

Since the previous thread is over a week old, I thought I'd start a new one for some more fresh eyes.

Edit: This may be more helpful for those on mobile: This is zoomed in.

This is the location. It is the speck in middle of the triangle-shaped water in this image, harder to see.

UPDATE: u/bz237 was kind enough to contact the local authorities. This is bz237's update from a post below "UPDATE: I just had a conversation with the lead Detective. Super cool guy. Because I had emailed the info last night, they were all looking at the image when I called. He said the same things we all said here - hey looks like a car, might be too big (they were doing some measurements), it was supposedly frozen, it's really shallow etc etc. He was also talking to some locals to find out what they know about that particular spot (local waterways personnel) and they said it is indeed really shallow there and probably would have been found already. They are looking at it and are going to send someone out in a boat to take a look. I forgot to ask if it's currently frozen (anyone know this?), however he said it would not be today and he'd probably call or email me back with an update. I apologized in advance if this is some kind of wild goose chase, I certainly didn't want to cause any undue issues for them - he said "no, no, no, seriously we appreciate anything we can get and I will certainly give you an update". My thought is - if they knew it was not a car, they would have just told me that. He had a group of officers right there with them and my perception was that nobody could rule out it being a vehicle despite doubts (the same doubts we all have here). Good job u/sevenpoints !!!! Fingers crossed. update 2: I have not been arrested yet - but there is still time "

FINAL UPDATE: u/bz237 received an email from the authorities involved, "The reservoir was checked from the air and no vehicle was located. That particular area of the reservoir is only 5’ deep so a vehicle would be visible if it were there."

Let’s talk about it: The Guthrie family

In all honesty, since the photos looked so similar, I simply assumed that was you posting on the other site with a different screen name?

 

[Alleykins]

I found this in the "Let's talk about it" section of the Charley Project Blog:

Since the previous thread is over a week old, I thought I'd start a new one for some more fresh eyes.

Edit: This may be more helpful for those on mobile: This is zoomed in.

This is the location. It is the speck in middle of the triangle-shaped water in this image, harder to see.

UPDATE: u/bz237 was kind enough to contact the local authorities. This is bz237's update from a post below "UPDATE: I just had a conversation with the lead Detective. Super cool guy. Because I had emailed the info last night, they were all looking at the image when I called. He said the same things we all said here - hey looks like a car, might be too big (they were doing some measurements), it was supposedly frozen, it's really shallow etc etc. He was also talking to some locals to find out what they know about that particular spot (local waterways personnel) and they said it is indeed really shallow there and probably would have been found already. They are looking at it and are going to send someone out in a boat to take a look. I forgot to ask if it's currently frozen (anyone know this?), however he said it would not be today and he'd probably call or email me back with an update. I apologized in advance if this is some kind of wild goose chase, I certainly didn't want to cause any undue issues for them - he said "no, no, no, seriously we appreciate anything we can get and I will certainly give you an update". My thought is - if they knew it was not a car, they would have just told me that. He had a group of officers right there with them and my perception was that nobody could rule out it being a vehicle despite doubts (the same doubts we all have here). Good job u/sevenpoints !!!! Fingers crossed. update 2: I have not been arrested yet - but there is still time "

FINAL UPDATE: u/bz237 received an email from the authorities involved, "The reservoir was checked from the air and no vehicle was located. That particular area of the reservoir is only 5’ deep so a vehicle would be visible if it were there."

Let’s talk about it: The Guthrie family

In all honesty, since the photos looked so similar, I simply assumed that was you posting on the other site with a different screen name?

No, this is the only site I post on for this sort of thing. Maybe it was a coincidence? Or are they the same photos? I took screenshots from Google Earth.