NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[goathairjones]

Here is a News12 Long Island video of the FBI Blackhawk helicopter going over the exact spot where Shannan was found. If Shannan's body was there back in April 2011, the camera on that helicopter would have recorded her. I think this is the biggest hint that we have that her body was not there in April 2011 and was placed there afterwards.


http://www.news12.com/archive/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=279265&position=1&news_type=news

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Blue could very well have picked up scent from discarded personal belongings that had come into contact with SG.
My curiosity is whether or not it was HR scent, or tracking or trailing scent.
If it was HR scent, then (in my world anyway) SG was deceased prior to being separated from her belongings.

That's one hell of a point you bring up there, Oriah! Details of how Shannan was found are pretty sketchy (at least from articles that I've read). I'll spend some time today seeing if I can piece the details together, because things as they stand now in my mind absolutely do NOT match up.

I know that Officer Malia is K9. Don't know what training they receive. In fact, I don't know for a fact that he and Blue were the ones who actually located Shannan. Other posters might have read that via msm, but I haven't. I do know that he's the one who found the other 4 other girls while searching for Shannan, so in my mind, if he's also the one who found Shannan...well, I'd have to conclude that that was a VERY odd coincidence. LI only has one superhero K9 officer? I dunno...strange.

Quick question: IF Shannan did drown in this marshy area over a year prior to her discovery, how likely is it that a dog would be able to track her? Would it depend on the dog's training? A year submerged in water (on and off)...how would that affect the dogs ability to scent?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Was anyone else aware that during the infamous first phone call aside from the "halfway house for run away teens" line, the perp also claimed to be a police officer?

Did somehow this tidbit eluded us?

Listen closely to this interview:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/long-island-serial-killer-manhunt-13372385

First time I've ever picked up on Mari saying the caller claimed to be LE! And I've seen that video many times.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think it was reported that at least one NYPD officer (or former officer) was looked at in connection with the Long Island murders. I will have to check to confirm.

I know for a fact that at least one officer was questioned in connection with Maureen's disappearance. I can't provide a msm link for that, though, because I didn't obtain the info from msm. There is this article, however, which refers to it...although NYPD publicly denied it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/16/long-island-serial-killer-nypd_n_862417.html

They are flat out lying.

 

[truthspider]

Here is a News12 Long Island video of the FBI Blackhawk helicopter going over the exact spot where Shannan was found. If Shannan's body was there back in April 2011, the camera on that helicopter would have recorded her. I think this is the biggest hint that we have that her body was not there in April 2011 and was placed there afterwards.


http://www.news12.com/archive/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=279265&position=1&news_type=news

What if the exact location she was in was an area that had some water such that the remains were entirely submerged? It does seem like the exact spot she was found was concave terrain with pooled water in it.

 

[inspctrgadget]

Could it really be just a coincidence that the caller to victim SG's mom makes claims of being an officer and that another victim's(totally unrelated to SG's murder according to some)mother receives a call by a man claiming to be an officer?? Just a fluke coincidence??

I guess it may be that someone(the real killer) downloaded a program to hack into the good doctor's phone line and made this phone call claiming to be an officer to further set up the doc.. Along with downloading another program to help them then hack into the OBA surveillance system to erase any video that showed the "real killer" on it.. And then found yet another program and downloaded it that allowed him to hack into the good doc's computer/fax and send letters out.. And yet again downloaded another program that allowed him to forge the good doc's signature to the letters..

I guess that explains everything and wow any of us could have done it all from just downloading this software from our internets(don't forget the one for altering the voice as well).. There's no coincidences I guess here when they're all *explained away* with software we can all download.. :crazy:

Do you really think that CPH said that he's both a police officer AND runs a rehab? Or do you think its more likely that he said that he used to work for the Suffolk County police department? Impersonating an officer can get you arrested. Just because Mari said he said he was a police officer does not mean that that was actually what he said. Take her statements with a grain of salt because she had a theory (just like we all do) and she had the megaphone of the mass media.

 

[truthspider]

First time I've ever picked up on Mari saying the caller claimed to be LE! And I've seen that video many times.

I have to wonder if that was a mistake in reporting? Maybe that reporter was confusing MG with Mrs. Waterman? If not, what other tidbits have passed by our magnifying glass? Searching for my fine tooth comb now.... The weirdo that I am I was watching that video on repeat, trying to get an accurate sense of the emotions. I do have to say the impression I get from the mood and statements etc. are quite different around iteration 5, compared to the first impression. Now when I watch it I believe I am witnessing someone who is experiencing something much more traumatic than I had originally observed. Something about it reminds me of a scene from Shutter Island, I can't recall what is triggering that memory exactly.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

What if the exact location she was in was an area that had some water such that the remains were entirely submerged? It does seem like the exact spot she was found was concave terrain with pooled water in it.

I wonder how visible her clothes were.

BTW, good morning everyone.

wm

 

[Oriah]

Wouldn't Shannan have to have been dead for about 2 hours at the last point she touched those belongings for it to be a HRD?

I think Shannan's belonging's would have been visible to the eye right away if they were put there not long after she went missing. Same with the body. We could see the shape of her skeleton from an arial view with the officers standing by.

ETA: I agree with Waltzing M that if this area was searched previously for Shannon, her belongings and remains were not there at that time or they would have been spotted or sniffed.

Not exactly. Human decomp begins very quickly. There are a lot of factors that play into human remains scent transfer and the time frame needed for an HRD dog to detect its' scent- most notably actual physical particles that are deposited on a contact surface. Warning graphic: Those particles could be skin cells, they could be bodily fluids, they could be the specific decomp of organs, skin, muscle, fat, etc. Decomp gases disperse more quickly- and water disperses scent particles rapidly as well. So it's kind of a complicated situation when there is recovery of mostly decomposed human remains from a situation like a marsh. The decomp scent has dispersed, usually in the direction of water flow. And when there is a wax and wane- it's often a rather wide area.

I do agree that I think belongings would likely have been spotted. Depending on how long remains had been present- I also think found by an HRD dog is up for debate during the first search.

I still have not fully caught up on these cases- but what is the current thought process about why Shannon's remains would have been dumped at a later time? TIA.

 

[Oriah]

That's one hell of a point you bring up there, Oriah! Details of how Shannan was found are pretty sketchy (at least from articles that I've read). I'll spend some time today seeing if I can piece the details together, because things as they stand now in my mind absolutely do NOT match up.

I know that Officer Malia is K9. Don't know what training they receive. In fact, I don't know for a fact that he and Blue were the ones who actually located Shannan. Other posters might have read that via msm, but I haven't. I do know that he's the one who found the other 4 other girls while searching for Shannan, so in my mind, if he's also the one who found Shannan...well, I'd have to conclude that that was a VERY odd coincidence. LI only has one superhero K9 officer? I dunno...strange.

Quick question: IF Shannan did drown in this marshy area over a year prior to her discovery, how likely is it that a dog would be able to track her? Would it depend on the dog's training? A year submerged in water (on and off)...how would that affect the dogs ability to scent?[/quote]

IMO, there's no way she could have been tracked or trailed at that point. A HRD dog, if brought to the general 'correct' vicinity could be very effective. It would have to be a well trained pup, that's for sure. Would absolutely depend on training.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I definitely respect your point of view waltzingmatilda, but it seems to me that we've been sleuthing the Shannan/CPH/Oak Beach angle almost to the exclusion of other angles of inquiry where we know for a positive fact that a serial killer was at work.

My guess is that you're referring to KU, but I think that angle is also a dead end given the strong likelihood that Shannan died of accidental causes.

As far as the drifter, you're probably talking about PA (same name as a co-founder of Microsoft), but again, there's a strong likelihood that Shannan died of accidental causes so even if PA was in fact at the "party", which I doubt given the lack of evidence or information provided by police, it's still a dead end so why bother starting there? Why not start to focus on the GB4 and Manorville where we have solid evidence? Why not focus on Carman Monaco Jr.?

Thank you inspectrgadget! I certainly respect your opinion as well and feel CM, Jr is a viable POI just as much as others. CM,jr making those threatening calls along with the content of the threats and him being a truck driver is what intrigues me wrt his possibly being the SK. I have questions re' him but will post on that thread.

MOO

wm

 

[Oriah]

What if the exact location she was in was an area that had some water such that the remains were entirely submerged? It does seem like the exact spot she was found was concave terrain with pooled water in it.

If she was submerged- do we know what kind of visualization resources were on board the helicopter and being utilized at the time? Sorry if that's already been asked and answered... it might explain why she may have been missed if they were simply recording.

 

[Just K]

I know for a fact that at least one officer was questioned in connection with Maureen's disappearance. I can't provide a msm link for that, though, because I didn't obtain the info from msm. There is this article, however, which refers to it...although NYPD publicly denied it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/16/long-island-serial-killer-nypd_n_862417.html

They are flat out lying.

Something interesting to take into account:

LE took MBB's computer for analysis

They had access to the computers and cell phones of AC & her roommate, DS

They Have ACruz's computer (MW's BF/pimp)

Most likely they have had access to both MB and her BF/Pimp, Terry's computer and his cell phone records...

So, LE has a record of the sites used for the last escort/date postings of each of these women. They could request the site managers turn over the history for views of each of those pages re: the hours and day before the women went missing or back to the first day of each post. There absolutely has to be a common denominator.

 

[truthspider]

I still have not fully caught up on these cases- but what is the current thought process about why Shannon's remains would have been dumped at a later time? TIA.

I think some suspect that because of the amount of searching, people, dogs, fbi helicopter, etc and the proximity of the remains to the area she was last seen, it is hard to believe she was right there the whole time. They did find older remains 4+ miles down the road, and much farther as well. So it seems odd that they wouldn't have found her where they did find her.

I have always thought that LE was acting on information given up by neighbors when they decided to search just east of Gilgo (which is literally a 4 mile leap from oak beach) Even though LE has publicized they were only on a "training exercise" when they started to find remains.

 

[the quiet girl]

Here is a News12 Long Island video of the FBI Blackhawk helicopter going over the exact spot where Shannan was found. If Shannan's body was there back in April 2011, the camera on that helicopter would have recorded her. I think this is the biggest hint that we have that her body was not there in April 2011 and was placed there afterwards.


http://www.news12.com/archive/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=279265&position=1&news_type=news

I cannot access that video but thanks anyway. I do not think as it stands right now her remains where there when orig searched due to exactly what you stated. FBI cameras on the helicopters with the capability of showing remains. Well then why was she not located early on.
Also I have doubts because initially they should have found her within hours of her disappearance the items where right there not far from the entrance of the marsh. Personally I would have looked there first if I was called for her disappearance that morning. I think it is only common sense and I have no police training at all. I was a wilderness first responder when my first child was young thou. I do think it is safe to say a majority of ppl would have that gut reaction.

Edit To Add:
Thanks Oriah, your feedback is appreciated so much. <3

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I have a few questions that I hope someone can help me with.

I read an article the other day which stated that MBB's cell pinged at GB(?) in 2008 a year after she disappeared in 2007? Now I can't find the link. Does anyone recall reading this or have a link handy? TIA

Also, which GB4 victim's mom was handed a box by authorities at GB with her daughters arm bone inside? Does anyone have a link? TIA

Just trying to establish info for the' just the facts' thread.

wm

 

[the quiet girl]

If she was submerged- do we know what kind of visualization resources were on board the helicopter and being utilized at the time? Sorry if that's already been asked and answered... it might explain why she may have been missed if they were simply recording.

Here is one article on the FBI helicopter search.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/14/fbi-takes-to-the-sky-in-long-island-serial-killer-search/

I cannot find the exact camera type at this point. I know I posted what they were before, I will search for that.
btw side note I did just find this pdf from the fbi about surveillance, thought you guys may want to take a peek. I think about page 26 it talks of cameras in general.

 

[Theforeigner]

I have a few questions that I hope someone can help me with.

I read an article the other day which stated that MBB's cell pinged at GB(?) in 2008 a year after she disappeared in 2007? Now I can't find the link. Does anyone recall reading this or have a link handy? TIA

Also, which GB4 victim's mom was handed a box by authorities at GB with her daughters arm bone inside? Does anyone have a link? TIA

Just trying to establish info for the' just the facts' thread.

wm

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-...milies-2011-6/

....For three years, the NYPD had reported no trace of her—except, in 2008, for one cell-phone-signal ping off a Long Island tower, just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. “Someone was trying to access Maureen’s cell-phone voice-mail,” .....



http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/did-gilgo-victims-let-their-guards-down-1.2950472

Abandoning their own rules

Crystal DeBoise, co-director of the nonprofit Sex Workers Project in Manhattan, said most prostitutes -- from street walkers to high-end call girls -- develop safety rules. Many work only in hotels, others inform friends and pimps of their whereabouts and some even ask clients for references.

"Are there people who can't follow safety precautions all of the time? Yes, just like any industry, sometimes those rules are abandoned," DeBoise said.

Brainard-Barnes' sister still wonders how she ended up on Long Island. "My sister said she would never go outside the five boroughs," said Melissa Cann, 27, of New London, Conn. "She would only do in-calls at hotels where she knew that the front desk had security and video cameras."

Brainard-Barnes, a single mother from Norwich, Conn., struggling to support two children, was introduced to prostitution through a modeling job in Manhattan, her sister said.

To her family, it was an unexpected path for a bookish young woman who published poetry on her MySpace profile and invented games for her children. Brainard-Barnes insisted to her sister that it was not her full-time profession and in early 2007 she worked as a telemarketer.

By July, however, Brainard-Barnes had been laid off and faced eviction from her apartment, Cann said. On Friday, July 6, 2007, Brainard-Barnes left her children with their fathers, took a train to Manhattan, got a hotel room near Times Square and posted an ad on Craigslist, Cann said.

Brainard-Barnes did not return to Connecticut the following Monday, as she had promised, Cann said. She did call friends that day -- her last contacts before going missing. "There was nothing distressful," Cann said.

The next year, police contacted Cann and asked whether her sister had ever worked on Long Island. "Never," Cann replied.

Police then told Cann a surprising detail: Her last cellphone call pinged a tower on the South Shore, Cann said.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-...milies-2011-6/

....For three years, the NYPD had reported no trace of her&#8212;except, in 2008, for one cell-phone-signal ping off a Long Island tower, just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. &#8220;Someone was trying to access Maureen&#8217;s cell-phone voice-mail,&#8221; .....



http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/did-gilgo-victims-let-their-guards-down-1.2950472

Abandoning their own rules

Crystal DeBoise, co-director of the nonprofit Sex Workers Project in Manhattan, said most prostitutes -- from street walkers to high-end call girls -- develop safety rules. Many work only in hotels, others inform friends and pimps of their whereabouts and some even ask clients for references.

"Are there people who can't follow safety precautions all of the time? Yes, just like any industry, sometimes those rules are abandoned," DeBoise said.

Brainard-Barnes' sister still wonders how she ended up on Long Island. "My sister said she would never go outside the five boroughs," said Melissa Cann, 27, of New London, Conn. "She would only do in-calls at hotels where she knew that the front desk had security and video cameras."

Brainard-Barnes, a single mother from Norwich, Conn., struggling to support two children, was introduced to prostitution through a modeling job in Manhattan, her sister said.

To her family, it was an unexpected path for a bookish young woman who published poetry on her MySpace profile and invented games for her children. Brainard-Barnes insisted to her sister that it was not her full-time profession and in early 2007 she worked as a telemarketer.

By July, however, Brainard-Barnes had been laid off and faced eviction from her apartment, Cann said. On Friday, July 6, 2007, Brainard-Barnes left her children with their fathers, took a train to Manhattan, got a hotel room near Times Square and posted an ad on Craigslist, Cann said.

Brainard-Barnes did not return to Connecticut the following Monday, as she had promised, Cann said. She did call friends that day -- her last contacts before going missing. "There was nothing distressful," Cann said.

The next year, police contacted Cann and asked whether her sister had ever worked on Long Island. "Never," Cann replied.

Police then told Cann a surprising detail: Her last cellphone call pinged a tower on the South Shore, Cann said.

:yourock:

Thank you sooooo much, theforeigner! I have been trying to establish ANY possible SK activity in 2008. I guess the attempt to access MBB's VM would have been in Jan 2008, if it was 6 months after her disappearance?

wm

 

[Theforeigner]

Here is more, a video newsreport concerning Maureen Brainard-Barnes' cell phone ping subject.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...reenSister-Dormer001.mp4&sort=ascending&co=10

11/30/11 Interview with Commissioner Richard Dormer; and Maureen Brainard-Barnes' sister about the cell phone pings on Long Island just a couple miles from where she was found