NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[colette]

There is DNA in these cases... so if they get DNA from the Long Island cases, they could rule out a connection here.

I hope they got DNA...

I believe they mean DNA from the victims to match to family members so they can be identified. I don't believe there is DNA from the killer, they are very decomposed. Some are just bones.

 

[mck16]

If this has been discussed before please forgive me and enlighten me! These cops are having such a difficult time looking-I understand some have poison ivy and they are worried about ticks. How is it, that a cop driving slowly had something catch his eye? And this is not the same cop who found the first 4 right? Also, a woman runs screaming from Joe Brewer(or we assume it to be Joe) and the police do not consider him a suspect???? I wonder who were the men these other ladies last made contact with? What/who got them to that area? Was the money offered that good??? Could these johns be a front? I don't really know what I am trying to say--I am confused. I have so many problems with this story. But it is obvious this person(s) knows the area VERY WELL. I don't think this is someone that moves.

I agree with you. I don't know if this has been touched on, but I think it is significant that the bodies are all on the same side of the road. I believe it is the West side. Or maybe they haven't searched the other side. jmo

 

[scandi]

Good Afternoon Scandi :seeya:

I have seen a few articles that stated that the first four bodies had been there at least a month and as long as 18 months. (I will quote and link them below.) That was before they identified them and knew when they went missing. I am guessing it is probably 3 months - 3 years... since the first went missing in 2007 and the most recent in September 2010. At least I am hoping he does not keep them alive for months before killing them.

I thought he might store them until he gets 4 bodies and then dump them all. If he does, it doesn't sound like he prevents them from decomposing in the meantime. So I am not so sure about that... maybe he really does go back and dump more bodies. Perhaps this would also give him a chance to ensure the previous ones were still where he left them?

It would definitely be very nice to know how these women died. The Atlantic City women were asphyxiated... but we may not know that with these women.

Shannan's public display, calling 911... is the reason I have a hard time believing that the man who hired her is involved at all. (That and some have gone so far as to say the police cleared him.)

However, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for me to think the killer may have had a scanner for some reason and heard that call and responded... then saw her as a victim of opportunity. If she IS one of his victims there is a reason she doesn't fit the pattern of timing and no last known location. Victim of opportunity could be one of those reasons.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-victims-Craigslist-killer.html#ixzz1IfhwPVHM

Megan Waterman...

'She wasn't a $20 corner girl. She said, "Mom, you can't believe the clients we have: doctors, police officers, famous people."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...osing-remains-people-near-secluded-beach.html

He said the skeletal remains of all four people appear to have been there for at least a month, but 'some appear to be have been there longer than others'.

Detectives said today that the bodies could have been tossed there as long as 18 months ago.

The different levels of decomposition suggested the victims were dumped there at different times, police said.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Body-Search-Resumes-Along-LI-Beach-118862714.html


Investigators believe the bodies were systematically dumped over a period of 18 months or longer, and that the killings are linked.

The women's causes of death have yet to be revealed; but it's believed each was killed in the same way by the same person or persons, said Suffolk DA Thomas Spota at a January news conference.

"This fits the definition of what a serial killer would be," Spota added.


Albert Fish was born in Washington DC and then moved to New York when he was 20. He did some time in Sing Sing at 33... then committed crimes in Deleware and Washington DC. In New York, Staten Island, Brooklyn, Waterloo, Manhattan and spent time in Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital. He was convicted in White Plains at age 64 and executed at Sing Sing 10 months later.

As always, thank you for this informative post - if we had a sticky thread it should go there for research.

Now don't you wonder WHY LE has now driven into Oak Beach to where Shannon was last seen? Is Joe the man in his 70's? Interesting, eh?

 

[Searchfortruth]

If this has been discussed before please forgive me and enlighten me! These cops are having such a difficult time looking-I understand some have poison ivy and they are worried about ticks. How is it, that a cop driving slowly had something catch his eye? And this is not the same cop who found the first 4 right? Also, a woman runs screaming from Joe Brewer(or we assume it to be Joe) and the police do not consider him a suspect???? I wonder who were the men these other ladies last made contact with? What/who got them to that area? Was the money offered that good??? Could these johns be a front? I don't really know what I am trying to say--I am confused. I have so many problems with this story. But it is obvious this person(s) knows the area VERY WELL. I don't think this is someone that moves.

I am confused also, espescially concerning Shannon's last known moments. It would be a huge coincidence, if she was running for her life from someone near JB's home, and murdered soon after by a totally different person (unrelated to JB and/or Shannon).

 

[minazoe]

I think alot of small things could alert a cop from the corner of his eye...


for instance alot of birds gathering in one spot...coming and going.
odor
a particular type of animal lurking
broken grasses and matted down areas as though something moved through

other things? tire tracks?

 

[minazoe]

Gary Ridgeway disposed of his victims in clumps of 3 or 4 ...in interviews he says he did this because he liked to return and have sex with some of them. Also it was so he could remember where they all were, easier...


it's all so mundane and logical.

 

[scandi]

I think alot of small things could alert a cop from the corner of his eye...


for instance alot of birds gathering in one spot...coming and going.
odor
a particular type of animal lurking
broken grasses and matted down areas as though something moved through

other things? tire tracks?

What I heard on some video was the reporter say something caught this guy's eye and he went to check it out. It well could be suspicious animal activity. I would doubt a brown burlap sack would catch his eye.

There was one video of LE bent over examining a set of remains and the bones were laid out and a bit scattered. It could be he also saw something white which would be out of the ordinary IMO.

 

[minazoe]

I wonder if there is a bar out there on the island or a known party drug house that these girls might frequent, in order to score...meet johns...

drug connections are of number one importance to junkies. Do we know drug histories on each victim?

i know it's a reach.

 

[MsFacetious]

As always, thank you for this informative post - if we had a sticky thread it should go there for research.

Now don't you wonder WHY LE has now driven into Oak Beach to where Shannon was last seen? Is Joe the man in his 70's? Interesting, eh?

I know they had said they were going to expand the search that direction... I personally think LE should search the whole freaking place. If they had found Shannan in the first 4, would they have found the next four? They need to keep searching. If that means they call in help, that's fine. They have an area to search... this would be the perfect thing for TES or other organizations.

The only age I have seen for Joe is 46.

And I finally found a MSM link for that! http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/17/nyregion/17bodies.html

I believe they mean DNA from the victims to match to family members so they can be identified. I don't believe there is DNA from the killer, they are very decomposed. Some are just bones.

Daytona Cases

"Or he could have been in prison--although the police have DNA, presumed to be the killer's, from two of the victims, and the national DNA inmate database, to which all 50 states contribute, hasn't turned up a match."

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/01/10/a-serial-killer-on-the-loose.html

I am referring to these Daytona cases having foreign DNA on the victims. If they are able to get foreign DNA from the Long Island cases they could rule out a connection.

Finding DNA when they are skeletonized has definitely happened before.

Morgan Harrington

Morgan actually went missing in October and was found in January, she was skeletonized as we have heard... repeatedly.

This is almost the same timeline as Amber in this Long Island case, who went missing in September and was found in December. Morgan was in no way covered from the elements. It is believed that at least some of the Long Island girls were. That would increase the odds of finding something.

I still have hope... 8 bodies... 8 chances to make a mistake.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/275685

....when Harrington's skeletal remains were found Jan. 26, 2010, by an Albemarle County farmer in a hayfield.

State police also announced for the first time last week that a previously disclosed link between Harrington's case and another in Fairfax is DNA-based.

In July, police reported that forensic evidence tied to Morgan Harrington's case linked it to an unsolved abduction and sexual assault in 2005 in Fairfax. They released a composite sketch of an unidentified man believed to have been the assailant in that crime.

Cappuzzo said that DNA was the forensic evidence linking the two cases. Cappuzzo would not identify the source of the DNA sample.

 

[minazoe]

The Morgan Harrington case is terrifying.

how about Maura Murrray?

maybe this guy has aged and has moved from stalking prey to ordering it like a pizza.

much easier.

 

[Reannan]

The use of burlap is of great interest to me... I found this interesting:

"Apparel - Due to its coarse texture, it is not commonly used in modern apparel. However, this roughness gave it a use in a religious context for mortification of the flesh, where individuals may wear an abrasive shirt called a cilice or "hairshirt" and in the wearing of "sackcloth" on Ash Wednesday."
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian_(cloth)

And then this...(Bolded by me):

"To show deep repentance, it was the custom in Biblical times in the Hebrew religion to wear a hairshirt (sackcloth) and ashes as a sign of repentance and atonement. Such garments or adornments have been worn at various times in the history of the Christian faith, to mortify the flesh or as penance for adorning oneself. Being made of rough cloth, generally woven from goats' hair, and worn close to the skin, they would feel very itchy."
From: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice[/ame]

I wonder if he liked the idea of the girls being placed in a rough burlap bag because he felt they needed to repent and they should do penance for "adorning oneself", i.e. wearing make-up, hooker clothes, etc. :waitasec:

 

[scandi]

Snip for space

I wonder if he liked the idea of the girls being placed in a rough burlap bag because he felt they needed to repent and they should do penance for "adorning oneself", i.e. wearing make-up, hooker clothes, etc. :waitasec:

Excellent thought Reannan. That being part of his MO then would rule out any bodies not wrapped in burlap, right, like the AC murders?

 

[Danica7]

Living close by this does scare me a lot, I am very thankful though for the search for Shannan and that it has brought this to light a lot sooner than it could have been. I am confused about the night she went missing as well but can only think that whoever is killing knew there was a party at JBs and had her show up there via Craigslist. When she arrived and JB was telling her to leave because he did not want an escort at his party, I think the killer was waiting outside. So when she walked outside is when he attacked her, then she ran from door to door to get away. Maybe then scared of everyone even the man whose house she ended up at. I don't really know. I definitely think it was someone at the party or someone who had knowledge of a party there. Maybe even someone working the party.

Todays weather is pretty bad and I am sad to know her remains were not among the 4 recently found, which only means another girls life was ended as well.

 

[scandi]

Living close by this does scare me a lot, I am very thankful though for the search for Shannan and that it has brought this to light a lot sooner than it could have been. I am confused about the night she went missing as well but can only think that whoever is killing knew there was a party at JBs and had her show up there via Craigslist. When she arrived and JB was telling her to leave because he did not want an escort at his party, I think the killer was waiting outside. So when she walked outside is when he attacked her, then she ran from door to door to get away. Maybe then scared of everyone even the man whose house she ended up at. I don't really know. I definitely think it was someone at the party or someone who had knowledge of a party there. Maybe even someone working the party.

Todays weather is pretty bad and I am sad to know her remains were not among the 4 recently found, which only means another girls life was ended as well.

Hi Danica, WELCOME to WS ;} Have you heard that her remains are not in the last 4 found?

 

[Reannan]

Excellent thought Reannan. That being part of his MO then would rule out any bodies not wrapped in burlap, right, like the AC murders?

I don't know Scandi.... He might have evolved since AC and added a new level to his MO. Four bodies of girls who worked in the sex industry, murdered and left spaced equally apart is pretty much all we know for sure right now. I wish we knew if the Long Island bodies were left facing East. I would almost bet they were.....

 

[bearschick]

From the News12 website~

"Suffolk police say that the body of missing New Jersey prostitute Shannan Gilbert is not among three sets of human remains found along Ocean Parkway Monday."

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=278243&position=1&news_type=news

 

[MrsG728]

BBM: I beg to differ. Desolate is not a word I would use to describe any part of the North Fork. It's rural countryside, meaning lots of open space and farmland, vineyards, small villages. Of course these are interwoven with wooded areas, but I don't think of woods as desolate places and the parks are manned all Summer.

.

You're right Verity. I was thinking more along the lines of "if the murders occurred on the North Shore/Fork area of LI, would a perp drive all the way down to OP to dispose of bodies?" In my mind, the answer is no, and there are other out-of-the way places up north more convenient to dump bodies.

Now, my interest has been piqued by someone mentioning highway worker. Those trucks that trim the brush and mow the grass along parkways have burlap sacks. :waitasec:

Is the town of Babylon in charge of this roadway and patch of brush? hmm.... going to do more work.

Carbuff, not sure about campgrounds. I will look into it. I know for a fact that there are 3 or 4 near Montauk in Smith Point and Hither Hills, not familiar with any near Oak Beach. Checking into it now.

 

[MrsG728]

I don't know that I'd go for "lives in" Oak Beach, but has some reason to be in the area for a summer weekend.

Locals, are there campgrounds there where he could have parked a Winnebago or pickup camper?

There is a campsite on the Westbound/Gilgo Side! It's at the Marina, and RV's and campers can go there! I never ever knew, and we pass by all the time.

https://secure.townofbabylon.com/re...edar-Beach.jpg?tv=61179&wbsi=kiZUlckkifkTatib

http://www.townofbabylon.com/faq.cfm?category=108

 

[svpernin]

Living close by this does scare me a lot, I am very thankful though for the search for Shannan and that it has brought this to light a lot sooner than it could have been. I am confused about the night she went missing as well but can only think that whoever is killing knew there was a party at JBs and had her show up there via Craigslist. When she arrived and JB was telling her to leave because he did not want an escort at his party, I think the killer was waiting outside. So when she walked outside is when he attacked her, then she ran from door to door to get away. Maybe then scared of everyone even the man whose house she ended up at. I don't really know. I definitely think it was someone at the party or someone who had knowledge of a party there. Maybe even someone working the party.

Todays weather is pretty bad and I am sad to know her remains were not among the 4 recently found, which only means another girls life was ended as well.

Hey Danica, just wanted to clear a few things up. JB admitted that he set up a date for sex with Shannan via Craigslist... he was the one who invited her to his home and he knew she was an escort. Also, as I said in an earlier post today, the "party" has not been confirmed. It may have just been Shannan and JB at that house. I have not heard any evidence that there truly was a party and no other guests have come forward and to speak out, so that's why I think the "party" line was a lie.

Do you have a link to confirm that Shannan was not among the recent four? I haven't heard that yet. Are you sure you're not talking about older articles where they said she was not among the initial 4 sets of remains found in December?

ETA: I just saw the post with the News 12 article about Shannan not being among the new sets of remains. I wish I could read News 12 articles, can anyone tell me what else it says??

 

[Danica7]

Yes I heard that, which just means its another girl which makes me sad. Its also scary that its in my town, we are in shock and have our eyes open for sure.