Identified! NY - Mount Vernon, WhtFem 51UFNY, 18-25, Left Near Junkyard, Feb'88 - Veronica Wiederhold

[leonhardt]

That's true. Or, she could have entered and dropped out. But I don't think she originated from the area. Although I have no way to prove that, just MOO. Gut feeling. But since her body was dumped in such an obscure location, that's why I think her killer was local.

The whole murder screams "prostitute murder" to me, because most cases of prostitute murder I've seen involved strangulation (except for, I believe he was called, the "Vampire Killer" who drank a prostitute's blood? If anyone knows about that please let me know...will sleuth when I get home).

Thanks for the info from your previous post! knowing all of that, I will have to agree that she may have been a prostitute to support herself. Especially since Westchester is not the cheapest area to be in, even for a college student. New Rochelle, White Plains, Harrison... there's a lot of possibilities on where she could have been picked up. I'd love for her image and case to be brought to attention again here. I may start looking into other murders of young women in the area to see if there have been any similarities.

It is usually strangulation with prostitutes, isn't it? Maybe because strangulation tends to be a rather, well, intimate thing in a way? I don't know, but that is interesting. And I believe you're talking about the case of a young woman in Sweden! The "Atlas Vampire" is what her killer was nicknamed! It's a hell of a creepy case.

 

[Springrain]

Thanks for the info from your previous post! knowing all of that, I will have to agree that she may have been a prostitute to support herself. Especially since Westchester is not the cheapest area to be in, even for a college student. New Rochelle, White Plains, Harrison... there's a lot of possibilities on where she could have been picked up. I'd love for her image and case to be brought to attention again here. I may start looking into other murders of young women in the area to see if there have been any similarities.

It is usually strangulation with prostitutes, isn't it? Maybe because strangulation tends to be a rather, well, intimate thing in a way? I don't know, but that is interesting. And I believe you're talking about the case of a young woman in Sweden! The "Atlas Vampire" is what her killer was nicknamed! It's a hell of a creepy case.

Yep, that was the case I was thinking about! Super sick. And maybe that (strangulation being intimate) is why they are often killed that way. It seems more personal and territorial than a gunshot.

Is New Rochelle a less affluent area?

 

[leonhardt]

Yep, that was the case I was thinking about! Super sick. And maybe that (strangulation being intimate) is why they are often killed that way. It seems more personal and territorial than a gunshot.

Is New Rochelle a less affluent area?

Yeah that's what I was thinking! I might be wrong, but it seems to me that a lot of prostitute killers tend to have an intense all around hatred for women, possibly due to treatment by a mother or sister figure......or they're just sickos who don't see these women as people, unfortunately (i.e. Robert Hansen.) This poor young girl seems to have unfortunately suffered at the hands of someone who thought that way, if that theory is correct.

Now a days it's pretty damn nice, but I can't really say I know too much about how it was in the 1980s unfortunately. The New York metropolitan area as a whole was a bit dodgy around that time, though not as bad as the 70s.

 

[Springrain]

Yeah that's what I was thinking! I might be wrong, but it seems to me that a lot of prostitute killers tend to have an intense all around hatred for women, possibly due to treatment by a mother or sister figure......or they're just sickos who don't see these women as people, unfortunately (i.e. Robert Hansen.) This poor young girl seems to have unfortunately suffered at the hands of someone who thought that way, if that theory is correct.

Now a days it's pretty damn nice, but I can't really say I know too much about how it was in the 1980s unfortunately. The New York metropolitan area as a whole was a bit dodgy around that time, though not as bad as the 70s.

Robert Hansen was a monster. I also agree she was probably killed by a woman hating man. It is disgusting how they do not see women as people! He probably had zero respect for women, much less sex workers. Since she didn't appear to have intercourse shortly before her death (and if she did, it wasn't noted, which I would think would be), then it was probably just a personal belief of female worthlessness rather than a sexual motive.

Even if it was a bit more dodgy during the 80s, I think it seems just as likely that she was not local. Though of course she could have been local and homeless for quite some time. So, I could go either way. Isotope analysis would probably only show if she was from out of state, which could be possible. I personally feel though that she was from a nearby city. Just MOO of course.

 

[Nikon]

New Rochelle, NY has been a very wealthy city for a long time. Continually being listed as most wealthy, most expensive zip codes, etc. In the '70s, and '80s, disco was king in New Rochelle. The population had shrank some during that time also, but it bounced back. It wasn't really seedy; the '70s were seedy. Still a very nice place to live if you have the money.

 

[Springrain]

New Rochelle, NY has been a very wealthy city for a long time. Continually being listed as most wealthy, most expensive zip codes, etc. In the '70s, and '80s, disco was king in New Rochelle. The population had shrank some during that time also, but it bounced back. It wasn't really seedy; the '70s were seedy. Still a very nice place to live if you have the money.

Are there seedier cities fairly close to Mount Vernon? Online articles don't really depict the views of locals.

 

[CarlK90245]

Are there seedier cities fairly close to Mount Vernon? Online articles don't really depict the views of locals.

The Bronx is very close to Mount Vernon. There are some very seedy portions of the Bronx.

 

[Nikon]

Are there seedier cities fairly close to Mount Vernon? Online articles don't really depict the views of locals.

Yeah. Southside (Mt Vernon). And Bronx/Manhattan. I don't know if Yonkers had anything like that back then. There are two areas of Mt Vernon - Northside and Southside. The northside area is (was?) more "whitey" than Southside. The downtown is centred about Mt Vernon, but it was associated with Southside, which is much closer to NYC proper - Bronx. As a result, Southside is much more gritty. It also held more industrial sites, a junkyard being one of them. Back in the '60s, there was a white flight segregation in Mount Vernon, and that's how the names Northside/Southside came to be. When I left the area, Mt Vernon was becoming more commercial over a suburb. I don't know what it is like today.

 

[Springrain]

Oh yes, the Bronx. I haven't been there in about 5-6 years because that's when I left VT. We drove through the Bronx to get to the Grand Hyatt. We got trapped in traffic for 2/3 hours and then when we got into a sketchy gas station to use the bathroom, there was a lady shooting up. Just my experience. Had no idea it was so close to Mount Vernon, I should have looked at a map lol.

 

[leonhardt]

Oh yeah, especially during the 80s the Bronx and parts of Manhattan were a little less than safe. Yonkers is nice now, I have a lot of family there. I can't imagine it was much better then either though. My mom used to be a social worker around those areas, including upper Manhattan. She's told me some interesting stories about it, that's for sure.
I can see our girl coming from around those areas, or at least frequenting them., if she was indeed a prostitute.

 

[jessr927]

Are there seedier cities fairly close to Mount Vernon? Online articles don't really depict the views of locals.

Yonkers. Well, southwest Yonkers, anyway. Westchester County is mostly people with money, except for Mt. Vernon, Yonkers, and parts of New Rochelle and White Plains. But MV & Yonkers have always been the redheaded stepchildren of Westchester, especially their southwest quadrants, and a lot of methadone programs, rehabs, projects, etc. get dumped there instead of spaced out throughout the county.

 

[jessr927]

It also says she was killed 6 -12 hours before being found at 11:54 a.m., and had been moved to the location on Carleton Place sometime after 10:20 a.m. (Feb. 14, 1988 was a Sunday, so I assume most of the businesses were closed). So if she were killed 6 hours prior to discovery (which would be 6 a.m.), where was her body until 10:20 a.m.? If she was killed on that street, there wouldn't be a 4 1/2 hour gap in time.

I believe George Ossipo stated that he suspected a man in Massachusetts of being the killer, and I'm starting to think that MVJD was also from Massachusetts (whether or not she is Cathleen Marie Martin as George believes).

-MVJD has a European/Hispanic look according to one of the Mt. Vernon police (I saw this upthread somewhere).

-Parts of Mass. have a large Portuguese community, specifically Brockton and New Bedford.

-It is approx. a 3 1/2 hour drive from both places, to Mt. Vernon. If the murder occurred in MA, this nearly fits the time frame of why MVJD was dead for approx. 6 hours prior to being found. Accounting for time to clean up, get her body into his car, and make the drive down to NY, it fits. It also fits with the theory that the killer was driving southbound through Mt. Vernon.

 

[FiveFelines]

I believe George Ossipo stated that he suspected a man in Massachusetts of being the killer, and I'm starting to think that MVJD was also from Massachusetts (whether or not she is Cathleen Marie Martin as George believes).

-MVJD has a European/Hispanic look according to one of the Mt. Vernon police (I saw this upthread somewhere).

-Parts of Mass. have a large Portuguese community, specifically Brockton and New Bedford.

-It is approx. a 3 1/2 hour drive from both places, to Mt. Vernon. If the murder occurred in MA, this nearly fits the time frame of why MVJD was dead for approx. 6 hours prior to being found. Accounting for time to clean up, get her body into his car, and make the drive down to NY, it fits. It also fits with the theory that the killer was driving southbound through Mt. Vernon.

Interesting. Do you have a link to where he stated this? I checked a few articles where he's mentioned and didn't see a reference to Mass.

Never mind; I found it. I'm not sure how I feel about Ossipo and his theories. I could see the victim maybe being from MA but why would her killer transport her all the way to NY, especially to an area that's somewhat off the beaten path (where she was found)? I would think he'd have to have some familiarity with the area.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/201...rnon-murder-mystery-who-is-jane-doe-/1579926/

Ossipo complained that, in addition to failing to explore the possible identification of Martin, investigators have not pursued a potential suspect. He said the lead was developed after he left the department: DNA taken from under Jane Doe’s fingernails pointed to a Massachusetts man.

“They had a DNA link in 2010. Why didn’t they do anything?” asked Ossipo. “He’s a viable suspect that needs to be explored.”

Adinaro said detectives have not interviewed the man because they learned from Massachusetts authorities that he was in jail at the time the Mount Vernon victim was slain, and the DNA match was only partial.

Ossipo argued evidence collected in 1988 — when DNA technology was not as precise — might create a partial sample or one that might be tainted. He said to his knowledge the man was not in jail at the time in question.

“Someone should have talked to him,” Ossipo maintained.

 

[jessr927]

Interesting. Do you have a link to where he stated this? I checked a few articles where he's mentioned and didn't see a reference to Mass.

I thought it was somewhere upthread, then realized it was in a message on Linkedin. I redacted personal info of mine but left in the important pieces.

 

[FiveFelines]

I thought it was somewhere upthread, then realized it was in a message on Linkedin. I redacted personal info of mine but left in the important pieces.
View attachment 84122

Thanks. I found another mention of it—edited my comment above.

 

[jessr927]

I'm not sure how I feel about Ossipo and his theories. I could see the victim maybe being from MA but why would her killer transport her all the way to NY, especially to an area that's somewhat off the beaten path (where she was found)? I would think he'd have to have some familiarity with the area.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/201...rnon-murder-mystery-who-is-jane-doe-/1579926/

My mother's opinion is that the killer might have been a trucker (interestingly, Cathleen Martin told her sister she'd met a limo driver in FL and planned to drive up the east coast with him). Route 22 (which Carleton Ave. is directly off of) is very long and goes through multiple states including NY and MA. I don't necessarily think that the killer is originally from MA, just that he was living there at this time. He might have grown up in Mt. Vernon.

 

[jessr927]

Mt. Vernon is like Bronx-lite, but we are 4 square miles. I can't step out my door without seeing someone I know, even if I knew them in elementary school 25 years ago. If Jane Doe lived here and was that distinct looking, someone would have already ID'd her. I am 50/50 if she is Cathleen Martin, but I am 100% sure she is not from here.

 

[cvaldez1975]

maybe it was a relation to the man ...

Interesting. Do you have a link to where he stated this? I checked a few articles where he's mentioned and didn't see a reference to Mass.

Never mind; I found it. I'm not sure how I feel about Ossipo and his theories. I could see the victim maybe being from MA but why would her killer transport her all the way to NY, especially to an area that's somewhat off the beaten path (where she was found)? I would think he'd have to have some familiarity with the area.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/201...rnon-murder-mystery-who-is-jane-doe-/1579926/

 

[jessr927]

maybe it was a relation to the man ...

Interesting theory, especially since upthread it was mentioned that she was placed peacefully, almost as an undoing of the brutality that had been done to her.

 

[FiveFelines]

Speaking of the New Bedford area, she was murdered right before the New Bedford Highway Killings started in 1988, although all the known victims who were found were left along I-95 in Mass. Not saying there's a connection necessarily, but it does make me wonder. The victims were prostitutes and were strangled, I believe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Bedford_Highway_Killer