NY NY - Suzanne Lyall, 19, Collins Circle at SUNY, Albany, 2 March 1998

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From what I can tell , there is no photo from the ATM. The composite of Nike Man came from the clerk at the store. We really don't know why he became the prime suspect. A certain amount of time passed before the clerk was asked about who was in the store at the time the ATM transaction occured. The clerk remembered Nike Guy. Apparently he didn't remember anyone else. Was anyone else in the store then? Who knows.

A $20 withdrawal suggests normal use of a debit card; as if Suzanne were alive at that time. Icfwould suggest that she was not abducted the night. Before. It would work for the peep if he had no alibi for the night before but had one for the next few days.

I don't have any information on the BF activities or alibis.
 
CircuitGuy said:
Do you know of a timeline posted anywhere?

I'm confused as to how the withdrawal helps the perpetrator. The withdraw means maybe the abduction happened later, but probably not. It probably occurred between getting off the bus and when she would normally return to the dorm. So the withdrawal isn't very valuable to the perpetrator.

Making it, though, puts him at risk of getting caught. I thought all Tyme machines had built-in cameras that record every transaction. The one used to make the last withdrawal apparently had a camera nearby but not on the machine.

Does a bogus withdrawal help the perp in any other way? I'm always open to the idea that any perp was stupid, in this case that would mean staging the withdrawal despite the risk/benefit ratio not being in his favor.

I'm curious if there's a timeline for her b/f's alibi vs a timeline of possible abduction times.
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Suzy vanished Marched 2, 1998 from the SUNY campus & was last seen leaving the bus around 9:40-9:45 PM. The debit card was used by an unknown person the day after, on March 3, 1998 at 4:00 PM, AFTER she was last seen. What if the perp. made this initial withdrawal to promote the idea that nothing happened to Suzy, that she was still alive & well? A simple $20.00 withdrawal is a pretty usual use of a debit card, and although it would put him out there to get caught, it would also put up the question of where & when Suzy really vanished from & if she was abducted at all (which I truly believe something very bad did happen to her). It was just a very strange action and either 1) Suzy was alive at the time & completed the withdrawal herself or 2) the perp did it and there had to have been a reasom behind it, although I, not sure what that would be. I would find it odd she dropped it or lost it, and a stranger magically knew her debit card pin #. I wonder if Suzy really was there, if the clerk would remember her? They sure remembered the Nike guy.
If you would like more details of case this is a good link:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lyall_suzanne.html

They also featured her on Disappeared, and that may help you grasp the understanding of a timeline in her disappearance.
 

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CircuitGuy said:
Based on what I saw on the ID show, I reject the idea her b/f was involved. Everything about him is consistent with your typical aspie computer geek. You can read more about aspie love in this NYT article.
Here is why I think her b/f does not seem suspicious:
  • He took a liking to her straightaway. --> She was female at a computer club meeting. *advertiser censored* or Get the F*($ Out (TOGTFO) is an acronym in the online world b/c if you go to a geek chat and say you're female you instantly get attention from the aspie hetero males. They don't mean it as crass as it sounds. They just mean don't say your female just to get attention or to get people to look at your code. The other side of this is the tech b!$ch syndrome. Hetero techie girls have no trouble finding a b/f and are often aspies on top of that, leading some people to see them as shrews. I don't condone all this. I'm just saying this is normal in geek culture.
  • She wanted to break up with him, but he resisted it. --> This guy met girls on BBS in the 90s. There were very very few girls on BBSs and/or using any protocol on the Internet prior to WWW becoming the killer app that led to widespread adoption. It's crazy to think he'd just log on to the BBS and find another g/f or meet one at the computer club. This was all a few years before the time people realized we got stock options and built stuff to sell to companies with deep pockets, which brought out girls that made you long for a geek even more.
  • He didn't express much emotion. --> Did he ever express emotion the way neuro-typicals (NT) do? If he was a typical geek he felt a little detached, as if talking to his contemporaries was not completely different from reading about early experiments with steam engines or even early agriculture? History doesn't repeat, but it really rhymes. When people talked about emotions, it either felt like he was expected to look deeply into strangers eyes as if he were intimate with them OR it felt like people were going through the motions of these platitudes people say, and he thought "spare me the bromides. Of course this hurts like hell. Can we please dispense with this song and dance routine that people do because I don't have strength for it right now."
  • He was controlling. --> I think many parents say this about their kids' b/f's.
  • He wouldn't do the polygraph. --> Techies are more suspicious of polygraph technology than the general public is.
  • He didn't cooperate with police. --> I bet he had all kinds of cracked warez on his machine and some dirty pics and stories. He didn't want a bunch of strangers examining this embarrassing and potentially criminal evidence.
  • They Telnetted into one another machines and had access to each other's drives. --> awww... That sounds sweet.
  • Her father had a premonition something was wrong. --> I wish he had written it down or something. We're all susceptible to post hoc rationalization. I don't discount it completely, but for this to be scientific, he'd have to report his good/bad feelings about people and then compare them all to actual facts. Maybe he has bad feelings about things once or twice a week but it usually turns out to be nothing.
  • He knew her debit PIN. --> By the mid 90s some places took debit cards but not credit. She also frequently hit the Tyme machine for $20 withdrawals. He was with her for over two years. It seems normal that he should have seen her enter it many times.
  • He had a decent alibi of playing an online game at the time with someone who claimed to know his playing style.
Things I don't understand:
  • She handed him that greeting card. --> That did strike me as odd. :confused: She had a habit of sending things late, but I would not expect her to make a special trip just to get something there by Valentine's Day. She could have just sent a message that it was coming. OTOH she disappeared over two weeks later, and police found no evidence she had another relationship going. Moreover, if the note contained bad news, wouldn't she just put it in the mail?
  • The $20 ATM withdrawal. --> Someone said that was staging to delay an investigation, but it seems to me like a lot of risk that someone might see the perp given Tyme machines have cameras on and around them. That's a high price to pay for the possibility that someone will check her bank account, see the transaction, conclude she's alright, and delay investigating. If it were a criminal who made the withdrawal, I'm surprised he/she didn't clean out her account. I don't know what to make of that. Could she have been alive but hiding? Or maybe she did have another romantic relationship going, spent the night with someone, spent an extra $20 (explaining two withdrawals) on entertainment/wine/0.1oz/whatever, and met foul play from him or someone else.
I may be biased b/c I was a student and into computers around that time. But I also have a perspective that makes Suze's life seem typical. Nothing about Suze's and Rich's lives, as presented in the ID show, point to activities related to a murder or kidnapping. By default I tend to think it was a stranger. The duplicate withdrawal, though, make me wonder if it was another b/f.
Click to expand...

The boyfriend used remote access to monitor her online activity and got angry when she talked to other guys. That is controlling behaviour. I don't care what dirty pictures you might have on your computer...the police want to talk to you to help find your missing girl friend, and instead you hire a lawyer and refuse to help? That just makes you seem suspicious. I don't know much about this guy, so I don't know why you are equating his behaviour with AS, but I am an Aspie myself, and I just don't buy it.
 
amber1 said:
Suzy vanished Marched 2, 1998 from the SUNY campus & was last seen leaving the bus around 9:40-9:45 PM. The debit card was used by an unknown person the day after, on March 3, 1998 at 4:00 PM, AFTER she was last seen. What if the perp. made this initial withdrawal to promote the idea that nothing happened to Suzy, that she was still alive & well? A simple $20.00 withdrawal is a pretty usual use of a debit card, and although it would put him out there to get caught, it would also put up the question of where & when Suzy really vanished from & if she was abducted at all (which I truly believe something very bad did happen to her). It was just a very strange action and either 1) Suzy was alive at the time & completed the withdrawal herself or 2) the perp did it and there had to have been a reasom behind it, although I, not sure what that would be. I would find it odd she dropped it or lost it, and a stranger magically knew her debit card pin #. I wonder if Suzy really was there, if the clerk would remember her? They sure remembered the Nike guy.
If you would like more details of case this is a good link:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lyall_suzanne.html

They also featured her on Disappeared, and that may help you grasp the understanding of a timeline in her disappearance.
Click to expand...

I think someone who knew her pin number and withdrawal habits (how she took out $20 at a time) made that later withdrawal to buy time and make it seem like Suzy may be just taking a break on her own...giving that person extra time. There weren't too many people who had that information, who were exhibiting controlling behavior, and who may have been stalking her at work, but would be someone she wasn't afraid of.
 
A "controlling" boyfriend who Suzanne was trying unload would be a real strong suspect right out of the starting gate. That isn't evidence of anything however. Very often, people who feel they are trying to cooperate but are being treated as suspects, will lawyer up and that will be the end of any questioning or other cooperation. This is not evidence of anything.

The fact that Nike Guy was considered a serious suspect would seem to indicate that investigators were not completely sold on the boyfriend. We do not know what his alibi
was (or if he even provided one).

I'm curious if he had access to a vehicle. Without one I can't see how he could have pulled it off. If he had access to one, was it searched?
 
Does anyone have a link or can you post the video of the Disappeared show?
 
neverletgo said:
Hi, AngelaH! :seeya:

I think all of the YouTube copies have been removed, but I believe this link still works:

http://www.putlocker.com/file/72EA6B81A7AE2722

Here are a few more links if the above is unavailable:

http://www.tubeplus.me/player/1973642/Disappeared/season_4/episode_22/Final_Exam/"
Click to expand...

Thank You! I'll check out the links.
Funny - some episodes of Disappeared are available on YouTube while others are not. Odd. Since the show has been cancelled I wish they would make all episodes available for free. They get a lot of views.
 
Disappeared has several seasons on Netflix, but I'm not sure if the newest season with Suzy has been uploaded on there yet. Does anyone know if Disappeared will return to ID for another season?! I get tired of all the Love Scorned, etc etc crap on there!
 
Suzy's Disappeared episode is on Netflix--I just watched it last night.


Very disturbing case in that there is such little evidence as to what happened to her. It bothers me so much that people can disappear literally without a trace in this country.
 
I saw Suzanne's episode on Netflix as well. I wish they'd upload the rest of season 5. They are still missing several episodes.
 
I caught this episode on Netflix last night. What caught my attention was the fact that the boyfriend did not go to SUNY Albany and lived at home with his parents ten miles away while Suzanne lived on campus in student housing. They were not sharing any expenses. I would find it very strange and disturbing if he knew her PIN. The only reason for him to have it would be so he could use her card to make withdrawals. This would not be normal for a dating couple. The parents seemed very aware of Suzanne's ATM usage. They would probably know if he used the card (used it near his home/school/place of employment).

Since they appear to believe the boyfriend did it, and the show certainly casts suspicion in his direction, I would think we would have heard if there was any reason to believe he knew her PIN. If the boyfriend killed her because she was planning to leave him (as the parent speculate), I can't see that sort of emotion fueled violence include forcing her to give up her PIN. Not impossible but unlikely; particularly since he would probably realize she had very little in it. It is possible that he wanted it to set up a "red herring" withdrawal that might convince Law Enforcement that she was still alive and well the next day. If this is what he had in mind, by calling the parents inquiring if they knew where she was the next morning (before the ATM withdrawal), he would be defeating the whole purpose of the withdrawal.

It is fairly common for a sexual predator to force a victim to give up her Debit card and PIN. Why wouldn't he just loot the account? It is possible that the Perp checked the balance first and decided there was so little money it was more valuable to him to leave it as a "red herring" rather than take what would have been less than $100.

I'm kind of inclined to speculate that if there is evidence that he ever used her debit card (thereby knowing her PIN), the boyfriend was probably involved. If there is no evidence that he did, probably he is uninvolved.
 
Yeah..one thing I kept asking myself is how random person would know her ATM pin? Something was fishy with they guy who used it and I wonder why/how he was cleared so easily?
 
kemo said:
I caught this episode on Netflix last night. What caught my attention was the fact that the boyfriend did not go to SUNY Albany and lived at home with his parents ten miles away while Suzanne lived on campus in student housing. They were not sharing any expenses. I would find it very strange and disturbing if he knew her PIN. The only reason for him to have it would be so he could use her card to make withdrawals. This would not be normal for a dating couple. The parents seemed very aware of Suzanne's ATM usage. They would probably know if he used the card (used it near his home/school/place of employment).

Since they appear to believe the boyfriend did it, and the show certainly casts suspicion in his direction, I would think we would have heard if there was any reason to believe he knew her PIN. If the boyfriend killed her because she was planning to leave him (as the parent speculate), I can't see that sort of emotion fueled violence include forcing her to give up her PIN. Not impossible but unlikely; particularly since he would probably realize she had very little in it. It is possible that he wanted it to set up a "red herring" withdrawal that might convince Law Enforcement that she was still alive and well the next day. If this is what he had in mind, by calling the parents inquiring if they knew where she was the next morning (before the ATM withdrawal), he would be defeating the whole purpose of the withdrawal.

It is fairly common for a sexual predator to force a victim to give up her Debit card and PIN. Why wouldn't he just loot the account? It is possible that the Perp checked the balance first and decided there was so little money it was more valuable to him to leave it as a "red herring" rather than take what would have been less than $100.

I'm kind of inclined to speculate that if there is evidence that he ever used her debit card (thereby knowing her PIN), the boyfriend was probably involved. If there is no evidence that he did, probably he is uninvolved.
Click to expand...

Kemo,
I agree with your points 100%. I feel like the $20.00 withdrawal was a red herring, whether it was done by the boyfriend or an unknown perp. I also have a lot of suspicion on the boyfriend. So much does not add up.
As for the Nike guy, I thought I remembered reading an article that said he was identified and cleared of involvement with her disappearance. The article also mentioned they don't believe he used the ATM machine, but, unfortunately, there was no camera that pointed in that direction, so it's still unknown who really used her debit card. If I can find the article, I will post it. Going on what I know, I don't think the "Nike Guy" has information or anything to do with her disappearance. Unless her case is some how connected to Karen Wilson's (which would be odd with the time difference, but I've seen weirder things), I just think who ever is responsible is someone she knew personally, and these two cases are most likely not related to one another.
 
Amber,

From I can tell, the camera caught everyone who went to the counter. There were a number of people photoed of that they were able to track down rather quickly. I don't know how many or how they were tracked down. There may have been a media appeal or the photos were published in the local paper. All but Nike Guy came in pretty quickly. Presumably they were questioned about everyone else they saw;particularly anyone using the ATM. Nike Guy got a lot of publicity including a billboard. The fact that he failed to come in while everyone else did was pretty suspicious but, from what I could gather, he stood up pretty well to questioning and suspicion returned to the boyfriend who had lawyered up by then. (I had the impression it took Nike Guy 3 months to come in but the show implied it was closer to a year; anyone know which is correct). For whatever reason, Law Enforcement was very certain Suzanne did not use the ATM but there was no such certainty about the boyfriend. How did they exclude her? Did someone recall a white male using the ATM?

When strangers abduct and kill, they rarely do a good job of hiding the body. A missing body correlates with someone close to the victim. The Karen Wilson case was very similar but 13 years is a real long time.
 
kemo said:
Amber,

From I can tell, the camera caught everyone who went to the counter. There were a number of people photoed of that they were able to track down rather quickly. I don't know how many or how they were tracked down. There may have been a media appeal or the photos were published in the local paper. All but Nike Guy came in pretty quickly. Presumably they were questioned about everyone else they saw;particularly anyone using the ATM. Nike Guy got a lot of publicity including a billboard. The fact that he failed to come in while everyone else did was pretty suspicious but, from what I could gather, he stood up pretty well to questioning and suspicion returned to the boyfriend who had lawyered up by then. (I had the impression it took Nike Guy 3 months to come in but the show implied it was closer to a year; anyone know which is correct). For whatever reason, Law Enforcement was very certain Suzanne did not use the ATM but there was no such certainty about the boyfriend. How did they exclude her? Did someone recall a white male using the ATM?

When strangers abduct and kill, they rarely do a good job of hiding the body. A missing body correlates with someone close to the victim. The Karen Wilson case was very similar but 13 years is a real long time.
Click to expand...

Kemo,
I've also wondered how they have eliminated Suzy from using the ATM. Was it possible the cashier or worker there saw and observed every person who used the ATM that day? So if it wasn't the Nike Guy and it wasn't Suzy, then who was it??? I still question the boyfriend. I wonder what his alibi was for the day Suzy vanished and during the time her debit card was used.

You also made a good point about a missing body. Whereas some cases, stranger abductors do hide the body well (Speed Freak Killers of California using wells on an old farm), I can see where someone who knows the victim would spend more time trying to hide them. It kind of reminds me of John Douglas' Cases That Haunts Us, where he explained the significance of finding remains that are wrapped in a blanket or covered up and hidden well. It usually means the person who killed them knew them personally. If remains are stabbed (up close and personal killing) to the point of overkill, that also usually means it was a personal killing. In contrast, remains that are just dumped and tossed carelessly usually (but not always) mean that the killer was most likely a stranger to the person (hence remains that were found of the victims of the Green River Killer).
If they don't hide remains well, it may be easier for L.E. to tie the crime to them, since they already always comb through people closest to the victim first. Also, depending on the motive, who ever took her and if they did harm her, may have put her somewhere symbolic to them or somewhere they could go "visit" her.

I have always wondered about how Karen Wilson's disappearance may be connected to Suzy's. If there is a connection, I could see how the stranger theory would be more valid then Suzy's boyfriend. I believe LE was leaning more towards the idea of a stranger taking Karen rather then someone she knew. It would be interesting to find out if there is a connection!
 
http://www.njherald.com/story/25752072/legislature-passes-stronger-campus-safety-bill

Sixteen years after the disappearance of a University at Albany student, lawmakers have passed a measure requiring New York colleges and universities to inform local law enforcement of a missing student or a violent felony within 24 hours.

Suzanne Lyall's disappearance in 1998 prompted the Legislature to pass the College Safety Act in 1999. It requires colleges and universities to have plans for notifying local law enforcement of any violent felony offense or missing person on campus. But it didn't require the schools to actually report the incident to outside authorities.
Click to expand...
 
ok i saw the disappered episiode the other day on tv some things that struck me odd

the bf having access to her computer if there was anything on it that was incriminating he erased it before le even got to it.

his alibi was he was home with his parents a friend said he was playing a game online against him and he knew it was him on the other end because of the moves he was making. thus rulling out bf having someone else use his user name to play the game unless he left specific moves for him..

mom said that when she called the bank and they said only 20 was withdrew from the atm she knew it was suzanne because that was her atm habit to take only 20 out at a time but when they told her more was taken out the night/day before her mom got suspicious

in the show mom said me and husband and suzanne went to visit her grandma or someone they dropped suzanne off at school she said my husband had a premonition/feeling that something was wrong or something will happen and he could not shake that feeling.

she seemed a little quite at work the night she vanished or the day before her test according to her manager

someone or something was bothering her i feel she knew who ever took her and the bf needs to be looked at again
 
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