NY NY - Suzanne Lyall, 19, Collins Circle at SUNY, Albany, 2 March 1998

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https://player.fm/series/true-crime-bullsh-the-crimes-of-kelly-cochran-2547756/ep-17-suzy

I just listened to an interesting podcast series on the life and crimes of Israel Keyes, the host Josh Hallmark was given exclusive access to some of the FBI files and recordings on the Israel Keyes investigation. One episode was dedicated to Suzanne Lyall’s case.

Some really interesting information is discussed. This will be a lengthy post but bare with me!

Israel stated in a 2012 FBI interview that he had been ‘’two different people’’ for at least 14 years. If he was talking about the Oregon abduction and rape that would have been 15 years. 1998 would have been the year he was talking about when he became ''two different people''.

- Keyes was living in Constable, New York in 1998 before he went to join the army. In July 1998, he bought a small, isolated house in Constable, NY.

- Suzy’s work badge was found in a parking lot 30 yards from the Collins Circle bus stop. Keyes admitted to staking out parking lots looking for victims, he admitted to once stalking a couple and two police officers in Alaska one night. Also, in regard to Samantha Koenig who was abducted from her coffee stand in a parking lot. Keyes admitted to watching her from another parking lot across the street.

And most interestingly...

In 2013 a tip came in from a woman who stated she believed she had a strange interaction with Keyes in a parking lot in Albany, NY sometime in 1998.

The tipster who is a woman who works as an Attorney for the U.S State department, told the FBI that sometime in 1998 she was shopping a Marshall’s clothing store in Albany, NY, while she was offloading items into her car she was approached by a young man who appeared to be in his late teens or early twenties. At first the unknown man just stared at her appearing tense, he then approached her and asked ‘’how old are you’’ the woman agitatedly replied ‘’how old do you think I am?’’ the man then left her alone and the woman got in her car and left.

The woman came forward after watching the Israel Keyes interrogation videos on the FBI website. She stated she recognized his voice and became very upset after watching them as she immediately recalled the encounter. The FBI interviewed her twice and she told them that the event took place in Marshall's parking lot in Albany, NY sometime in 1998, though possibly in 97 or 99. She recalled there was no snow on the ground and that the encounter took place sometime between 9 or 10 pm. She described the man as identical to Israel Keyes, but had shorter hair. She also stated that she thought he resembled the character Beaker from the Muppets.

Notably, There are two Marshalls stores in Albany, NY however only one was open in 1998, the one across the street from the Albany recruitment office... which Keyes would later join the army through. The Marshalls store is also just two miles from the SUNY campus.

And of course, we all know Keyes had a habit for withdrawing money from his victims bank accounts. We do know Israel withdrew several thousand dollars from Samantha Koenig bank account, however he also withdrew $20 from her account the night he abducted her. Presumably to test the PIN he gave her. We do know Suzanne’s ATM card was used to withdraw $20 from her account the day after her disappearance.
 
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Murkywaters said:
https://player.fm/series/true-crime-bullsh-the-crimes-of-kelly-cochran-2547756/ep-17-suzy

I just listened to an interesting podcast series on the life and crimes of Israel Keyes, the host Josh Hallmark was given exclusive access to some of the FBI files and recordings on the Israel Keyes investigation. One episode was dedicated to Suzanne Lyall’s case.

Some really interesting information is discussed. This will be a lengthy post but bare with me!

Israel stated in a 2012 FBI interview that he had been ‘’two different people’’ for at least 14 years. If he was talking about the Oregon abduction and rape that would have been 15 years. 1998 would have been the year he was talking about when he became ''two different people''.

- Keyes was living in Constable, New York in 1998 before he went to join the army. In July 1998, he bought a small, isolated house in Constable, NY.

- Suzy’s work badge was found in a parking lot 30 yards from the Collins Circle bus stop. Keyes admitted to staking out parking lots looking for victims, he admitted to once stalking a couple and two police officers in Alaska one night. Also, in regard to Samantha Koenig who was abducted from her coffee stand in a parking lot. Keyes admitted to watching her from another parking lot across the street.

And most interestingly...

In 2013 a tip came in from a woman who stated she believed she had a strange interaction with Keyes in a parking lot in Albany, NY sometime in 1998.

The tipster who is a woman who works as an Attorney for the U.S State department, told the FBI that sometime in 1998 she was shopping a Marshall’s clothing store in Albany, NY, while she was offloading items into her car she was approached by a young man who appeared to be in his late teens or early twenties. At first the unknown man just stared at her appearing tense, he then approached her and asked ‘’how old are you’’ the woman agitatedly replied ‘’how old do you think I am?’’ the man then left her alone and the woman got in her car and left.

The woman came forward after watching the Israel Keyes interrogation videos on the FBI website. She stated she recognized his voice and became very upset after watching them as she immediately recalled the encounter. The FBI interviewed her twice and she told them that the event took place in Marshall's parking lot in Albany, NY sometime in 1998, though possibly in 97 or 99. She recalled there was no snow on the ground and that the encounter took place sometime between 9 or 10 pm. She described the man as identical to Israel Keyes, but had shorter hair. She also stated that she thought he resembled the character Beaker from the Muppets.

Notably, There are two Marshalls stores in Albany, NY however only one was open in 1998, the one across the street from the Albany recruitment office... which Keyes would later join the army through. The Marshalls store is also just two miles from the SUNY campus.

And of course, we all know Keyes had a habit for withdrawing money from his victims bank accounts. We do know Israel withdrew several thousand dollars from Samantha Koenig bank account, however he also withdrew $20 from her account the night he abducted her. Presumably to test the PIN he gave her. We do know Suzanne’s ATM card was used to withdraw $20 from her account the day after her disappearance.
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This is very interesting!
 
https://www.***********.au/suzanne-lyall-true-crime/

On the evening of Monday, March 2, 1998, Suzanne Lyall boarded a bus on her way home from work at the State University of New York.

It was late, and she had just finished her part-time job in a computer store in Albany.

According to the FBI, Suzanne departed the bus at the University's Collins Circle at approximately 9:45pm. She was roughly a three-minute walk away from her dormitory.

But Suzanne never made it home. At the age of 19, Suzanne vanished.

What happened between exiting the bus and travelling to her dorm has never been pieced together, despite being the subject of a 22-year-long investigation.

** For some reason, it won't let me link the article...should be "" in the asterisks.
 
Although Richard Condon has lawyered up to police, refuses to talk with media, and apparently has married and moved on with his life. He still has up his page for Suzy
Suzy Lyall
 
It's strange that's a lot of interesting cases like this that don't generate much chatter on WS. Whereas there's others that are always at the top of the page. :confused:

Suzanne's boyfriend seems to have been possessive and emotionally manipulative, but I don't blame him for refusing a polygraph and lawyering up. It's the smart thing to do under the circumstances.

I suspect that Suzanne was nabbed by a random attacker (or the stalker she mentioned) and her name-tag came off in the struggle. But why would they use her card to only withdraw $20 from the ATM? It's such a paltry amount. Apparently, Suzanne's boyfriend said that she would regularly withdraw $20. Did the kidnapper do this to make it look a voluntary disappearance? How would he have known Suzanne was in the habit of only withdrawing $20? It would also be foolish for the boyfriend to volunteer this information if he was guilty.

Unless, of course, Suzanne was the one who made the withdrawal?
 
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It makes sense to me that Suzanne would have been the one who made the withdrawal. If somebody else took that 20 dollars out, it would make sense to me that that somebody was very familiar with Suzanne's habits.
 
Suzanne’s plastic work nametag was found in a melting snow pile near where she had gotten off of the bus about two months later. The nametag had enough wear to demonstrate that it had been exposed to the elements for a couple of months. This would be very suggestive that Suzanne had been in a violent struggle near there.

Suzanne’s mother claimed that this was an old nametag and not the one she would have worn that day. If true, this would be a very critical piece of evidence. It would suggest that someone who was close to her; in a position to get hold of her old nametag, planted it there in order to stage it to look like she had been in a violent struggle. The obvious possible suspect who would have had access to this nametag and would have reason to make it appear that she had been forcibly abducted would have been the boyfriend. The mother appears to believe the boyfriend is involved.

This begs the obvious question: was the nametag found in the snow the one she wore that day? I am not aware that the issue has been specifically addressed. If co- workers can definitely state that she did not wear that name tag to work that day opens up a lot of questions that should have focused the investigation directly on the boyfriend.

If the co-worker had no reason to doubt that the name-tag was the one she wore it work that day, it would strongly suggest that there was a struggle near the bus stop. This would be consistent with stranger abduction but would be inconsistent with someone she knew well.

The whole question of the name-tag and the mother’s claim that the one found was not the one Suzanne should have been wearing at work that day raises the question of the mother’s credibility. If that claim was untrue, it would appear that the mother was furnishing false information to make the boyfriend appear guilty.

While there is a certain assumption that the boyfriend usually turns out to be the perpetrator, in this case there really is a lot of evidence that he isn’t. Suspicion of him is, to a large extent, a result of information furnished by Suzanne’s parents.

Does anyone have accurate information about the found name-tag?
 
I had not heard about the name tag being one she wouldn't normally wear to work. The first thought that pops in my mind with that is, I wonder if she misplaced her regular work name tag and was wearing an old one that day? I have worked many retail places and part of our uniform was to always have a name tag on - some places took it so seriously that if we didn't have one on, we'd be sent home for being out of uniform. If I had lost my current name tag and worked somewhere where I HAD to have one on at work, and I still had an old one at home, I'd probably wear that one instead. Just MOO
 
MntnHiker said:
I had not heard about the name tag being one she wouldn't normally wear to work. The first thought that pops in my mind with that is, I wonder if she misplaced her regular work name tag and was wearing an old one that day? I have worked many retail places and part of our uniform was to always have a name tag on - some places took it so seriously that if we didn't have one on, we'd be sent home for being out of uniform. If I had lost my current name tag and worked somewhere where I HAD to have one on at work, and I still had an old one at home, I'd probably wear that one instead. Just MOO
Click to expand...

I agree, name tags are pretty generic I would think it wouldn’t be a big deal if an older one was worn to work. I was struck by that fact that Suzanne’s mother brought it up. Did it really look significantly different the the new one? Otherwise, how would the mother know it was an older one?

The name tag was found two months after her disappearance so presumably none of her co-workers would not have remembered what tag she wore that day. If the tags were significantly different and employees were specifically instructed not to wear the old tags, someone, perhaps a supervisor, would have made note of the fact she wore the wrong tag, or conversely, could say she wouldn’t have worn the wrong tag, it would have been noticed I’d she did.

The name tag is a pretty significant piece of evidence. If there is no reason to doubt it was the one she was wearing that day, it is strongly suggestive of a struggle and some sort of forced abduction. That would point the investigation towards a stranger abduction. Presumably, someone she knew and trusted would not need to struggle with her to get her in a vehicle. I have always considered that name tag to be very strong evidence that the boyfriend was not involved.

I am suspicious about the mother’s claim that the tag found was not the tag she wore that day but I am aware of no official response to that claim. I would really like to know what the story of the name tag really was.
 
kemo said:
Suzanne’s plastic work nametag was found in a melting snow pile near where she had gotten off of the bus about two months later. The nametag had enough wear to demonstrate that it had been exposed to the elements for a couple of months. This would be very suggestive that Suzanne had been in a violent struggle near there.

Suzanne’s mother claimed that this was an old nametag and not the one she would have worn that day. If true, this would be a very critical piece of evidence. It would suggest that someone who was close to her; in a position to get hold of her old nametag, planted it there in order to stage it to look like she had been in a violent struggle. The obvious possible suspect who would have had access to this nametag and would have reason to make it appear that she had been forcibly abducted would have been the boyfriend. The mother appears to believe the boyfriend is involved.

This begs the obvious question: was the nametag found in the snow the one she wore that day? I am not aware that the issue has been specifically addressed. If co- workers can definitely state that she did not wear that name tag to work that day opens up a lot of questions that should have focused the investigation directly on the boyfriend.

If the co-worker had no reason to doubt that the name-tag was the one she wore it work that day, it would strongly suggest that there was a struggle near the bus stop. This would be consistent with stranger abduction but would be inconsistent with someone she knew well.

The whole question of the name-tag and the mother’s claim that the one found was not the one Suzanne should have been wearing at work that day raises the question of the mother’s credibility. If that claim was untrue, it would appear that the mother was furnishing false information to make the boyfriend appear guilty.

While there is a certain assumption that the boyfriend usually turns out to be the perpetrator, in this case there really is a lot of evidence that he isn’t. Suspicion of him is, to a large extent, a result of information furnished by Suzanne’s parents.

Does anyone have accurate information about the found name-tag?
Click to expand...

What evidence is there that points to someone else? Besides the circumstantial stuff regarding Israel Keyes. I wouldn’t say the name badge is evidence against Richard, there’s also the possibility Suzanne could of dropped it on accident sometime before she disappeared. There’s been times I’ve lost work name badges and had to get new ones. We have no way of knowing whether that was the case or if it was lost in a struggle. The truth is there’s really no hard evidence that points to one specific person.

Also check out the Upstate Unsolved podcast on this case. It’s not just her mother who has negative things to say about Richard, multiple people talk about him being possessive and jealous, and that she was different with him. The investigator on this case also was interviewed and talked about the Condon’s suspicious behavior. That’s not to say that he or his parents were for sure involved, but it seems like some people dismiss Mary as being a meddling mother who is making stuff up to make him look guilty. What motive would her mother have to make things up? On the other hand, we know for sure Richard’s dad is a liar, he made multiple false sightings of Suzanne, one of which he was followed by investigators as he made a phone call about seeing her, and she wasn’t there. Maybe he was just worried and was trying to protect his son from getting in trouble, but that raises huge red flags. His parents seem more suspicious then he does.
 
I’ve seen multiple places that several people thought Richard seemed controlling and jealous with Suzanne. However I haven’t seen anywhere how upset or distraught he was after she went missing, which you would assume he would be? The fact that he called the family the next morning and said “Suzy never came made it back to her dorm last night” seems like a weird way to say that? How did he know that? If she wasn’t answering calls or emails, she could have just been ignoring him? I know she was supposed to contact once saying she was home but still. I would think he’d say something like “have you heard from Suzy?” It was this not exactly how he said it? Coupled, with the strange behavior of his family makes him seem suspicious to me.
 
Something that bugs me about the Israel Keyes theory, or if this was a stranger abduction, is why go through the trouble of getting the PIN number from Suzanne, risk going to the convenience store, just to withdraw only $20? IIRC she had around $150 in her account. Why wasn’t the whole amount withdrawn, if robbery was part of the motive? For this reason I’m inclined to think that this was someone who knew her and knew her habits, and maybe did this withdrawal as a sort of red herring to throw off investigators. Or Suzanne herself was the one who withdrew the money.
 
ms.esquire said:
I’ve seen multiple places that several people thought Richard seemed controlling and jealous with Suzanne. However I haven’t seen anywhere how upset or distraught he was after she went missing, which you would assume he would be? The fact that he called the family the next morning and said “Suzy never came made it back to her dorm last night” seems like a weird way to say that? How did he know that? If she wasn’t answering calls or emails, she could have just been ignoring him? I know she was supposed to contact once saying she was home but still. I would think he’d say something like “have you heard from Suzy?” It was this not exactly how he said it? Coupled, with the strange behavior of his family makes him seem suspicious to me.
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Yeah, didn’t he ask Mary “did you know Suzanne never came back to the dorm”? I’m no expert, but in my time reading and watching about missing persons cases, usually the reaction families and friends have when someone goes missing, is to ask each other if they have seen that person. For him to just blurt out that Suzanne was missing to Mary without even asking if she had seen her, raises a lot of red flags. Of course, that’s assuming Mary remembered the conversation exactly how he said it. Which it’s possible at the time it might have been worded differently.
 
This case seems to “ have legs” ie, it continues to draw interest even though it is over 20 years old and there have been no new developments in years. The most interesting aspect is that there is only one suspect with any kind of motive or means that fits any common pattern yet there is little evidence against that suspect. If the boyfriend didn’t do it, an abduction by a stranger in the situation where it would seem to have occurred is most unusual and the $20 withdrawal and the effective concealment of the body are not consistent with a stranger Abduction.

The concealment of the body is quite a mystery. A 175 lbs body is really hard to move and there was quite a bit of snow on the ground. Undeveloped land away from roads and populated areas would be very hard to access by vehicle. Under those circumstances, disposal of the body would be very difficult. Someone with a lot of time that no one could account for their whereabouts, access to a building they could get in and out of discretely and use of a vehicle that could travel on snow covered tracks could pull it off. I just don’t think any of that applied to the boyfriend. It wouldn’t apply to most random predators either.

The id tag is particularly important. It might have been planted there to appear that there had been a struggle, ie, it was staging. This would be done by someone she knew who abducted her in some other way than forcing her into a vehicle as she walked from the bus stop. If someone did this as staging, I would expect them to make it far more obvious. A small name tag would have very little chance of being found and turned over to police. I am inclined to believe it was really dropped in a struggle.
 
kemo said:
This case seems to “ have legs” ie, it continues to draw interest even though it is over 20 years old and there have been no new developments in years. The most interesting aspect is that there is only one suspect with any kind of motive or means that fits any common pattern yet there is little evidence against that suspect. If the boyfriend didn’t do it, an abduction by a stranger in the situation where it would seem to have occurred is most unusual and the $20 withdrawal and the effective concealment of the body are not consistent with a stranger Abduction.

The concealment of the body is quite a mystery. A 175 lbs body is really hard to move and there was quite a bit of snow on the ground. Undeveloped land away from roads and populated areas would be very hard to access by vehicle. Under those circumstances, disposal of the body would be very difficult. Someone with a lot of time that no one could account for their whereabouts, access to a building they could get in and out of discretely and use of a vehicle that could travel on snow covered tracks could pull it off. I just don’t think any of that applied to the boyfriend. It wouldn’t apply to most random predators either.

The id tag is particularly important. It might have been planted there to appear that there had been a struggle, ie, it was staging. This would be done by someone she knew who abducted her in some other way than forcing her into a vehicle as she walked from the bus stop. If someone did this as staging, I would expect them to make it far more obvious. A small name tag would have very little chance of being found and turned over to police. I am inclined to believe it was really dropped in a struggle.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with most of your points here. The $20 ATM withdrawal to me is a test-did she give the correct pin? let me test it and see... Stranger abduction/murder does not equate to sloppy or limited concealment of a body, at least not always. A stranger abduction shouldn't be dismissed simply due to the fact that she has not been found. I'd go as far as saying that we do not have sufficient data to surmise that no body=someone known to the victim. Most perps want to hide their crimes regardless of victimology or the relation to the victim

Re: the concealment: It is not out of the realm of possibility that she was abducted from that lot and killed elsewhere. In that scenario, moving a body, any size, wouldn't be a factor as the perp likely had a vehicle nearby that he/she coerced her to and transported her, possibly to a remote location where he could easily dispose of her without having to move "dead weight". In that situation, the size or weight of a person is a moot point-I know many a country road or forest road that can afford privacy to someone wanting to do/hide bad things.

Re: name badge: It could have happened as you surmised or she went with the perp-against her will but without a struggle, as there was likely a weapon involved-and the perp either planted it there later or it was stuck in a snowbank until the snow melted. I am with you on this one, I don't think this was staged and likely did happen during some kind of struggle OR Suzy dropped it as a breadcrumb.
 
Part 1:

Just recently heard about this SL case from the old Disappeared episode. I followed that up with the Trace Evidence podcast focusing on this case. Both of those were very informative, as is this thread. As with many of these cases, this is especially difficult due to there being no trace of SL whatsoever.

I don't believe SL disappeared by choice. By all accounts, she was a great student, was doing well in college & got good grades. Obviously, she had a goal & wanted to finish school, etc. She also had 1-2 jobs, and I don't think she would have just left suddenly without giving notice, etc.

I find the bf suspicious, but not because he wouldn't talk to authorities after the initial interview. I.e., many innocent people would have done this due to being concerned they were under suspicion for something they didn't do.

But, there are other issues with the bf. Though, without hard proof (which the authorities obviously didn't/don't have) there's not much to be done here. Here is what stood out for me:

1) Based on what SL's family stated, she had tried to break up with the bf several times before her disappearance via a "snail mail" letter. However, whenever she wrote him a 'break-up' note/message he would follow that up with a phone call & talk her into taking him back. He also sounded very possessive & stalker-ish. I.e. he didn't like it when she talked to other people; he always wanted to know where she was at all times; etc.

Going along with this, I find it odd that the bf referred to her as his fiance - when it seems evident that she was trying to break up with him for a while before she vanished. I.e., she obviously didn't see the relationship the same way that he did.

2) According to her mother, on or around the Valentine's day before SL disappeared (so, a couple of weeks before), SL was driving with her mother to her grandmother's house - and stopped off at the bf's house to give him a note/card. SL's mother speculates that the card may have been a Valentine's day card - or a "Dear John" card/letter.

3) The bf's "alibi" is shoddy. He states that he was home with his parents (the night SL disappeared) playing a video game online. And, the friend he was playing with stated they knew it was him because of the gamer's "moves", etc. Well, this person the friend was playing with could easily have been someone else he mistook for the bf. Or, the bf could have had someone else sign in under his name, etc.

4) I find it very strange that the bf admitted to having SL's pin number for her ATM card. How the hell did he get this?! Did she give this to him?! If so, why?! This is very private financial information.

5) The bf called up SL's mother the morning after SL was last seen, and told her he was concerned because SL hadn't gone back to her campus dorm room the night before. So, how did the bf know that she wasn't back at her dorm room?! Was this just because she wasn't answering the dorm room phone?! He seemed sure she was missing, long before anyone else knew this. I guess this could be because he was always used to her taking his calls (maybe), and grew suspicious when she didn't answer?!

More to come.
 
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