NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[rosemadderlake]

Hi All,

It makes me Spit that not a one of her childhood, neighborhood, HS nor college friends (save her BestF) have come forward to speak about Sylvia Lwowski or to her disappearance.
Just. Steams. Me.

It's simply odd, IMO.

Where, where are the native New Yorkers? How about she was shy, kept to herself...anything?

Disgusted.

Epiphany-something in your post (not you!) set me off - because bbm: I think we are not seeing something.

-Gets me steamed, too... :seeya:

 

[rosemadderlake]

I always thought it was significant that she was described as “depressed”, especially before getting married. I don’t believe that LE coaches someone into saying things like that “on record”. So I wonder if it was possible her parents didn’t want something specific published?

There is a stormier side to Sylvia; the one that fought with her father and fled her BFF’s car after a fight. Were these one-time events?

Anything is possible and I do understand the darkest doubts and suspicions expressed here by SL’s loved ones. I went there too, but I always had a hard time seeing it as ‘probable’. I never thought it quite added up that the BFF would have killed her, dumped her, and concocted a roundabout goose chase while facing her best GF and HER PARENTS. –I don’t see it fitting as an alibi (imo). In all this time, if there was a hint of the MOB, why in 38 years, wouldn’t LE make that connection? Wouldn’t it have been all over the news, even back in 1975? I think when these thoughts are cast about on a sleuthing site they read like a movie script because in real life those allegations are so serious, if they are true. -Holding LE responsible when they were totally constrained by the law and a family that didn’t choose publicity in the first place is puzzling to me because I do believe that if, at that time, her family thought she was endangered especially at the hands of her BFF, or suicidal, I don’t think wild horses would have held them back from going public. I think they thought she ran away.

Lastly, the group here on SL’s thread has become so small and (imo) shamefully suppressed by the ‘suspicious post’ police to any new voices or new thoughts posted that don’t align with a certain agenda. I am so frustrated by that. It’s just dominant no matter what individual post gets removed. Sadly, it is why I don’t think anyone else who knew her is going to touch this thread– I would be happy though to be proven wrong on this one…

I think with a tragedy like this her friends and neighbors are remaining quiet (on WS) out of deference to her loved ones—

Someday we may hear something …
… All imo.

 

[alliemay]

Thanks Rose, yes I for one am tired of walking on egg shells.

 

[epiphany]

snipped; BBM

"I went to all the places that I thought she would have gone, like the Great Kills Park jetty, where we'd go if we had a fight with a boyfriend to cool off," ...

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/09/38_years_on_brother_of_staten.html

Other boyfriends>Other fights>Need to Cool Off.

 

[Jmoose]

I always thought it was significant that she was described as “depressed”, especially before getting married. I don’t believe that LE coaches someone into saying things like that “on record”. So I wonder if it was possible her parents didn’t want something specific published?

There is a stormier side to Sylvia; the one that fought with her father and fled her BFF’s car after a fight. Were these one-time events?

Anything is possible and I do understand the darkest doubts and suspicions expressed here by SL’s loved ones. I went there too, but I always had a hard time seeing it as ‘probable’. I never thought it quite added up that the BFF would have killed her, dumped her, and concocted a roundabout goose chase while facing her best GF and HER PARENTS. –I don’t see it fitting as an alibi (imo). In all this time, if there was a hint of the MOB, why in 38 years, wouldn’t LE make that connection? Wouldn’t it have been all over the news, even back in 1975? I think when these thoughts are cast about on a sleuthing site they read like a movie script because in real life those allegations are so serious, if they are true. -Holding LE responsible when they were totally constrained by the law and a family that didn’t choose publicity in the first place is puzzling to me because I do believe that if, at that time, her family thought she was endangered especially at the hands of her BFF, or suicidal, I don’t think wild horses would have held them back from going public. I think they thought she ran away.

Lastly, the group here on SL’s thread has become so small and (imo) shamefully suppressed by the ‘suspicious post’ police to any new voices or new thoughts posted that don’t align with a certain agenda. I am so frustrated by that. It’s just dominant no matter what individual post gets removed. Sadly, it is why I don’t think anyone else who knew her is going to touch this thread– I would be happy though to be proven wrong on this one…

I think with a tragedy like this her friends and neighbors are remaining quiet (on WS) out of deference to her loved ones—

Someday we may hear something …
… All imo.

BBM-we KNOW she had a fight with her father, because there were witnesses. We don't know that she fled the BF/F's car; we only suspect that she might have, because there isn't a witness who saw her do it. Even without any involvement by BF/F in her disappearance, she is much more likely to have been harmed that night, imo, than if she started a new life elsewhere, statistically-while no evidence exists that Sylvia is dead, there is also no evidence that she is alive.

 

[alliemay]

I also am inclined to believe that she was hurt that night as opposed to her starting a new life, all thought anything is possible. Even though there were no witnesses to say they saw her running from the car, I tend to think this story might be true. If I were going to make a story up like that I don't think I would choose to say this happened in traffic where there would be the possibility of someone she knew seeing this happen. I would have chosen a more isolated location to say this person ran from my car. Then again this is just an opinion and one I have felt since the beginning.

 

[Jmoose]

It's so tempting to blame the last known person to see someone who's disappeared-I really try hard to be objective, and imo, what works in his favor is the admission that they had a fight and that he went to both her friend and her parents to tell them she left the car. But because there have been so many women who were said to have left and disappeared after a fight with their significant other, and were either subsequently found dead, or never found, I do wonder if he had something to do with it. The story told by so many men in this situation is virtually the same. Can there really be so many predators out there, waiting for the opportunity to grab a girl who hops out of a car after a fight with a boyfriend or husband? I think that it could be that his story is partly true, and that maybe she got out of the car, but not on Richmond Ave, and that, for some reason he didn't want to say. It would be a little more acceptable to drive away if Sylvia exited the car on Richmond Ave near a bus that would take her home, rather than some deserted spot in the greenbelt in the dark.

 

[alliemay]

He could have said that before they even left the parking lot of the movie theater that she got out, the bus pick up was right there near the mall. Why say it happened at the light or stop sign? I half wonder if the story is true, that maybe someone she knew might have picked her up. Just some thoughts.

 

[Jmoose]

I always thought it was significant that she was described as “depressed”, especially before getting married. I don’t believe that LE coaches someone into saying things like that “on record”. So I wonder if it was possible her parents didn’t want something specific published?

There is a stormier side to Sylvia; the one that fought with her father and fled her BFF’s car after a fight. Were these one-time events?

Anything is possible and I do understand the darkest doubts and suspicions expressed here by SL’s loved ones. I went there too, but I always had a hard time seeing it as ‘probable’. I never thought it quite added up that the BFF would have killed her, dumped her, and concocted a roundabout goose chase while facing her best GF and HER PARENTS. –I don’t see it fitting as an alibi (imo). In all this time, if there was a hint of the MOB, why in 38 years, wouldn’t LE make that connection? Wouldn’t it have been all over the news, even back in 1975? I think when these thoughts are cast about on a sleuthing site they read like a movie script because in real life those allegations are so serious, if they are true. -Holding LE responsible when they were totally constrained by the law and a family that didn’t choose publicity in the first place is puzzling to me because I do believe that if, at that time, her family thought she was endangered especially at the hands of her BFF, or suicidal, I don’t think wild horses would have held them back from going public. I think they thought she ran away.

Lastly, the group here on SL’s thread has become so small and (imo) shamefully suppressed by the ‘suspicious post’ police to any new voices or new thoughts posted that don’t align with a certain agenda. I am so frustrated by that. It’s just dominant no matter what individual post gets removed. Sadly, it is why I don’t think anyone else who knew her is going to touch this thread– I would be happy though to be proven wrong on this one…

I think with a tragedy like this her friends and neighbors are remaining quiet (on WS) out of deference to her loved ones—

Someday we may hear something …
… All imo.

He could have said that before they even left the parking lot of the movie theater that she got out, the bus pick up was right there near the mall. Why say it happened at the light or stop sign? I half wonder if the story is true, that maybe someone she knew might have picked her up. Just some thoughts.

Really hard to tell if the story is true; it certainly could be true, but then why not answer her mother's questions? I could maybe see why he might not want to answer her friend's questions-he doesn't owe her anything, but the parents of your fiancee-that's a different story. I suppose there may have been feelings of guilt for returning from a date without her; I just keep thinking that he would, in my universe, have made an attempt to assure them that he had nothing to do with her subsequent disappearance, but he didn't-for some reason, that only he knows, he rebuffed the Lwowskis.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Really hard to tell if the story is true; it certainly could be true, but then why not answer her mother's questions? I could maybe see why he might not want to answer her friend's questions-he doesn't owe her anything, but the parents of your fiancee-that's a different story. I suppose there may have been feelings of guilt for returning from a date without her; I just keep thinking that he would, in my universe, have made an attempt to assure them that he had nothing to do with her subsequent disappearance, but he didn't-for some reason, that only he knows, he rebuffed the Lwowskis.

Imo. The alleged argument could or may have shed some light.

 

[Jmoose]

I totally agree-and furthermore, understand that if the fight was of a highly personal nature, that BF/F wouldn't want to talk about it, assuming there was a fight.

 

[alliemay]

I wish we knew the details of both fights, the one with the father and the one with the boyfriend. It's not likely that we will ever find out what the fight with the boyfriend was about, since it was just the two of them in car as far as we know. But I would think some of the guests at the party heard the argument with the father. I really wish we could find out who attended the party. Out of the list of band members, I have sent a few messages through fb, but have not received any replies yet.

 

[Jmoose]

The only thing I can add about Sylvia's fight with her father is that her brother told me that we've made much more of it here than it really was-I mean, that's his opinion, of course, but while he didn't say what it was about, he did say it wasn't anything that would drive her to run off. He may not have been present at the party when the fight happened, but he would be present for the aftermath at home.

 

[Dushi]

Hi everyone

Just stopped by to have a look at all the posts and work that has been done

 

[alliemay]

Yes, I do not think that the fight was enough to make her run away, but it was enough to make her leave the house and go to her friends and also not speak to her father after that. I'm sure the brother heard, in the aftermath, what the fight was about. It's all very sad to think about.

You have a the mother who doesn't know what to think, she doesn't want publicity because it may harm her daughters future job prospect, (all thought for the life of me I can't see how having a missing person report on your record would keep you from getting a job, it could be easily explained away as a misunderstanding. Personally I think there is more to that story).

So the mother hires a PI to follow the BF and the friend because she feels Sylvia is still alive and nothing comes from this investigation. Because she is frustrated it's possible, not saying it happened this way, but it's possible there may have been arguments where the parents blamed each other, or even themselves, all of this unwarranted guilt left a heavy burden for the family to deal with.

I just wish more information would come out about this case.

 

[Jmoose]

Yes, I do not think that the fight was enough to make her run away, but it was enough to make her leave the house and go to her friends and also not speak to her father after that. I'm sure the brother heard, in the aftermath, what the fight was about. It's all very sad to think about.

You have a the mother who doesn't know what to think, she doesn't want publicity because it may harm her daughters future job prospect, (all thought for the life of me I can't see how having a missing person report on your record would keep you from getting a job, it could be easily explained away as a misunderstanding. Personally I think there is more to that story).

So the mother hires a PI to follow the BF and the friend because she feels Sylvia is still alive and nothing comes from this investigation. Because she is frustrated it's possible, not saying it happened this way, but it's possible there may have been arguments where the parents blamed each other, or even themselves, all of this unwarranted guilt left a heavy burden for the family to deal with.

I just wish more information would come out about this case.

I wish there was some way of determining if the reason why the PI found nothing was because there wasn't anything to find, or if he was incompetent (possibly scamming the Lwowskis by not doing anything and just collecting their money)-Just one more question which has no answer!

 

[rosemadderlake]

I wish there was some way of determining if the reason why the PI found nothing was because there wasn't anything to find, or if he was incompetent (possibly scamming the Lwowskis by not doing anything and just collecting their money)-Just one more question which has no answer!

bbm: This is something I have wondered about from the beginning. --Not sure it is so much a matter of PI incompetence as perhaps monetary resources and focus - for instance, there is the timing of checking all airports, hospitals, mental institutions, jails, etc. Was it a nation-wide search (expensive before online databases) or in a localized radius? Is her family in possession of all ID paperwork; birth certificate, passport, driver's license, SS card? Sylvia was bilingual, born in Europe, and we don't know anything about her extended family, or connections familial, or from school, or even neighborhood as SI has an established German population. If the focus was on trailing her BFF and BGF would that have left a window of opportunity for her to leave whether abducted, coerced, or willingly.

 

[Jmoose]

I also wondered about this from the time we first knew about the PI. I'm sure that normal people with a typical household income couldn't afford to pull out all the stops-and of course, one private investigator couldn't be everywhere at once. It would be interesting to know if Sylvia's parents specifically asked him to follow these two people only, without examining any other possibilities, or if he suggested that this would be the most sensible thing to do. I'd hate to think, with all of the other things that worked against finding Sylvia, that this PI might have been incompetent or even dishonest. I do wonder if ASWDeerHunter has paperwork from the PI.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I also wondered about this from the time we first knew about the PI. I'm sure that normal people with a typical household income couldn't afford to pull out all the stops-and of course, one private investigator couldn't be everywhere at once. It would be interesting to know if Sylvia's parents specifically asked him to follow these two people only, or if he suggested that this would be the most sensible thing to do. I'd hate to think, with all of the other things that worked against finding Sylvia, that this PI might have been incompetent or even dishonest. I do wonder if ASWDeerHunter has paperwork from the PI.

Hi, all. I've been getting something out of just listening these last few days. (And I haven't had anything to contribute that hasn't been said many times before.) But I have a few thoughts now.

BBM1: Or, I wonder if the PI ran into what we have run into: That these were SL's only "close" relationships? Remember, SL even brought "Red" home. I think if there were other close GFs (I'm not counting people she hung out with in groups at school), I think her mother would have met and known about them. So whether these were marching orders or what he found, the net effect might be the same. JMO.

BBM2: There must have been paperwork or at least a verbal report at some point, because a finding worked its way into family legend in the form of the three (not so) "different" versions of the BF/F's story about where SL got out of the car. They are trivial differences, IMO -- the kind that come out of an honest but imperfect memory and are not seen when stories are made up and rehearsed. But the story would not exist if the PI (and LE) had not reported out in some way.

One thing that occurs to me after these few days of listening to the questions still echoing on this thread is what I want to call "emotional evidence." In EL's never-ending search, in JL Sr.'s silence, in the BF/F's anger (or crushed ego), I think I hear honest-to-god gut reactions to SL's disappearance. No one saw it coming, no one could point to someone who was likely to be at fault, no one could say later that if they had paid more attention, they might have seen it coming. It is thin, and far from foolproof, but if we take this seriously, maybe that evidence rules out three possibilities: suicide, SL leaving, and the BF/F. IOW, whatever happened that day was not planned, not something that made sense in retrospect, not something that, like a pointer dog, directed everyone's attention to a member of her social group that they were all a little creeped out by, and not something that made her mother or her BGF later stitch together that SL had made a decision that had to do with her deep unhappiness or dissatisfaction. It was a stunner, pure and simple. Either someone who knew SL snapped that day, for reasons we are not privy to, and got away with it, or she met anonymous foul play. I think those are the two most likely scenarios. I personally have struggled more with the other possibilities than the BF/F, but JMO. Even in his case, I see lives altered, and I don't think his is out of guilt.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Jmoose]

Hi, all. I've been getting something out of just listening these last few days. (And I haven't had anything to contribute that hasn't been said many times before.) But I have a few thoughts now.

BBM1: Or, I wonder if the PI ran into what we have run into: That these were SL's only "close" relationships? Remember, SL even brought "Red" home. I think if there were other close GFs (I'm not counting people she hung out with in groups at school), I think her mother would have met and known about them. So whether these were marching orders or what he found, the net effect might be the same. JMO.


BBM-Did Sylvia bring "Red" home? I didn't recall-to tell the truth, I had forgotten about him entirely. Is that because he was described as a casual relationship, and therefore not a factor in Sylvia's universe at that time? I really wonder about that...Could a young woman with so few close relationships really have such a casual thing with a guy she'd been pregnant by? I realize that we're back in a circle here, but there is an answer here someplace. Does Sylvia's brother suspect the fiance for any good reason, such as prior evidence of abuse of his sister, or did he just not like him? For some people, not liking a person is enough of a reason to think they're capable of anything-but we can't look at it that way. Still, being the last person seen with someone who went missing is pretty powerful, and BF/F must have understood that he was seen in that light, guilty or not. In order to eliminate him from consideration, I would like to know that he made some kind of effort to answer some questions, or search for her-something like that. By the way, I think the "3 variations" of his story are inconsequential differences, too-probably nothing.