NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[Jmoose]

I think I recall ASWDH saying EL was Jewish, although this may effectively be O/T if Sylvia was raised Catholic, and makes my point "moot". Let me see if I can find his post, though

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think I recall ASWDH saying EL was Jewish, although this may effectively be O/T if Sylvia was raised Catholic, and makes my point "moot". Let me see if I can find his post, though

The posts are in the link I gave you in my last post. That's why I included it. He says it, but he says it sarcastically.

 

[Jmoose]

I totally missed the sarcasm! What is my problem?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I totally missed the sarcasm! What is my problem?

LOL. That's what sucks about sarcasm It's not the clearest way to communicate.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Original post TBM:


This question came up for me again too today, Rose. I wonder if we can put a few things in one bucket to hypothesize an answer: (1) running from the car during the fight, (2) the kick at the pool party, (3) times when MMQC said SL fled her own home and took solace at MMQC's house. If in fact running from the car is "in character" for SL, maybe what was so upsetting that night was that SL wasn't at any of the places she would normally run to when that happened. It might also explain why her BF/F was so comfortable going to SL's house right away and telling her parents what happened. IMO, many guys would not do that so quickly, but maybe it wasn't the first time it had come up between them. It might also explain why they weren't thinking foul play at his hands -- what was alarming may have simply been that she didn't come home (or got to MMQC's) afterward. JMO

MMQC gave no indication that it was her habit to bolt from the car-just that she would frequently go to that place described as "where (they'd) go after a fight with a boyfriend to cool off". I got the impression from the two VIs that the fight with the father and running from the car were out of character for her, although other people here may feel differently.

Her brother told me that he thought she was pregnant at the time she disappeared, which could have explained her behavior.

Bringing some thoughts forward...

-I do not hear in the VI's posts that fighting with her father in a public display or running from from her BFF (in traffic) is in character for her either which (to me) indicates something big, and something recent was happening, unfolding in her life.

So, on that Saturday, we have rushed, anxious shopping, and (allegedly) fighting, & running from. I have a hard time seeing her dropping some planned information bomb like "I'm pregnant" after the movie theater and storming off? But I can see that maybe she did not plan to tell him yet (until she knew for sure) but it came out because of the argument.

I think if she was pregnant chances are she might know it, especially if she is over 10 days late in her cycle. -These usually were major freak outs (and false alarms) when they happened in my life and I did not keep it to myself. The freak out was followed by a "what am I going to do?" call to a friend (even my Mom). For Sylvia's case, this would be a big piece of the puzzle if it was known, or known that she suspected it in 1975. So I guess my question is, who else knew it? Who else knew that she knew it?

We don't know too much about her summer of '75, only that she was feeling blue, perhaps with regret, and then described as depressed. These things don't happen in a weeks time, yet something seems as if it was surfacing (whether she wanted it to or not) in that week before she went missing...
...imo.

 

[Jmoose]

Bringing some thoughts forward...

-I do not hear in the VI's posts that fighting with her father in a public display or running from from her BFF (in traffic) is in character for her either which (to me) indicates something big, and something recent was happening, unfolding in her life.

So, on that Saturday, we have rushed, anxious shopping, and (allegedly) fighting, & running from. I have a hard time seeing her dropping some planned information bomb like "I'm pregnant" after the movie theater and storming off? But I can see that maybe she did not plan to tell him yet (until she knew for sure) but it came out because of the argument.

I think if she was pregnant chances are she might know it, especially if she is over 10 days late in her cycle. -These usually were major freak outs (and false alarms) when they happened in my life and I did not keep it to myself. The freak out was followed by a "what am I going to do?" call to a friend (even my Mom). For Sylvia's case, this would be a big piece of the puzzle if it was known, or known that she suspected it in 1975. So I guess my question is, who else knew it? Who else knew that she knew it?

We don't know too much about her summer of '75, only that she was feeling blue, perhaps with regret, and then described as depressed. These things don't happen in a weeks time, yet something seems as if it was surfacing (whether she wanted it to or not) in that week before she went missing...
...imo.

I agree. This would account for whatever happened to Sylvia, regardless of what that was. That one week would be evidence of the dam bursting, and the cause could be another pregnancy, in my opinion.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Just to clarify in case it caused confusion, when I said "If in fact running from the car is 'in character' for SL," I did not mean to suggest that she'd specifically done that before. What I should have said instead of "running from the car" was "storminess" or "this kind of behavior." That's what I think I see evidence of. JMO

Also, MOO, but I don't see a basis for the pregnancy. If the brother calls this a "hunch" -- IOW, it doesn't come from EL or MMQC -- I can't trust it as anything more than that. Sure, anything's possible, but we've been down this road. I need something to anchor it to. I don't mean to be a party pooper. I'll listen and weigh in. If I'm quiet, that's why.

A couple of things I see working against EL knowing about a pregnancy: That would have been quite an effective card to play when she went to LE. There's a big difference in "a woman out there on her own" and "a pregnant woman out there on her own." I think LE would have behaved differently, and they'd have been asking a whole other set of Qs. JMO

 

[epiphany]

A second pregnancy and suicide is still very high on my list.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Just to clarify in case it caused confusion, when I said "If in fact running from the car is 'in character' for SL," I did not mean to suggest that she'd specifically done that before. What I should have said instead of "running from the car" was "storminess" or "this kind of behavior." That's what I think I see evidence of. JMO

Also, MOO, but I don't see a basis for the pregnancy. If the brother calls this a "hunch" -- IOW, it doesn't come from EL or MMQC -- I can't trust it as anything more than that. Sure, anything's possible, but we've been down this road. I need something to anchor it to. I don't mean to be a party pooper. I'll listen and weigh in. If I'm quiet, that's why.

A couple of things I see working against EL knowing about a pregnancy: That would have been quite an effective card to play when she went to LE. There's a big difference in "a woman out there on her own" and "a pregnant woman out there on her own." I think it LE would have behaved differently, and they'd have been asking a whole other set of Qs. JMO

bbm1: yes I interpreted your interpretation that way too. I think she may have been a stormy gal sometimes but I hear, read. interpret the "public displays" were out of character.

bbm2: I think her brother would likely know what EL thought. But definitely Agree - need to anchor it in 1975.

bbm3: I do not think EL would tell this to LE or make this public, especially if SL was not sure. I don't think LE would have treated it any differently, she's still over 21 and of free will. How many pregnant run-aways were there? Lots...

 

[rosemadderlake]

A second pregnancy and suicide is still very high on my list.

Do you think it is possible she traveled somewhere off island? Or, as a more spontaneous decision on island?

 

[alliemay]

A second pregnancy and suicide is still very high on my list.

In the beginning I didn't really think suicide was something to even consider because it looked like she had everything going for her. My initial thoughts were that she left after something traumatic happened to her. As this thread continues I now feel like the two options that stick with me are that someone harmed her that night or she committed suicide. Like GBMG has talked about Slyvia's love for the ocean, if she did commit suicide I think that would have been the place to go, the jetty as MMQC talked about and also went there that night to look for her, but it was dark when this happened so I'm not sure what she would have been able to see.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think it is possible she is alive and had the baby if it is not the BFF'S.

 

[epiphany]

Do you think it is possible she traveled somewhere off island? Or, as a more spontaneous decision on island?

IF suicide, I think on SI and if not by water, I don't know what method she may have used...but so many isolated deserted miles of land back on SI then. I believe she remained on the island.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think it is possible she is alive and had the baby if it is not the BFF'S.

One day, on a lark, I searched marine biologists named Sylvia and found a famous one -- Sylvia Alice Earle. Age is wrong, and she has a very high-profile life ... but I wanted it for her. I would like to think that's true -- that she's out there somewhere.

 

[epiphany]

For all we know, EL may have known about the termination or suspected she had been pregnant previously. Speculating that EL may have, and that EL considered or suspected that SL may have been pregnant again, that would give pause to "no publicity," no real searches, hope that she left on her own and might one day contact, EL's not sharing info with brother or her BF (MMQC), "depressed" on PR, etc.

 

[epiphany]

SL was still living at home and was not employed yet. Mom had plenty of time to observe daughter's behavior, emotions, moods, etc. over SL's college years.

 

[rosemadderlake]

One day, on a lark, I searched marine biologists named Sylvia and found a famous one -- Sylvia Alice Earle. Age is wrong, and she has a very high-profile life ... but I wanted it for her. I would like to think that's true -- that she's out there somewhere.

bbm: Yes, I larked one day and found that too.

And I feel because SL was a lover of nature, creatures, a caretaker of animals, in tune with the natural life force; I do not see her ending it all, especially if she herself is pregnant (again).

 

[alliemay]

Maybe JL's hunch" was because he found something that his mother had written? Maybe this was EL's hunch.

 

[epiphany]

Also, according to MMQC, EL always thought she knew where SL might be.

IOW, I think Mom knew daughters have their own private lives, even if still living in parental home.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Some Holocaust survivors were tattooed with numbers on their forearm because they were ID'd and spared. If EL's family was killed in WWII Germany, unless Sylvia went off deep end completely, I do not see her ending her life knowing what that would do to her mother who might have to be the one to identify her... I see her leaving instead.

ETA: I see the "fighting" and "running from" as outward displays of emotion which make me lean in the direction of leaving, accident, or was harmed. I know that young suicides can be really spontaneous, though, but still I would be very surprised... shocked.