NY - Twins, boy and girl, 5, found dead in Bronx apartment, no signs of obvious trauma, Mount Hope, 18 Dec 2023

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Isn't death from RSV or similar rare? I just wonder how likely it would be for that to happen to both? Not impossible, I guess.

May their parents be surrounded by caring support.
Rsv is deadly in babies - but after 5, I think the risk significantly decreases. I don’t think that is what happened here but I suppose it’s possible MOO

The different symptoms between the two toddlers are interesting to note.
 
This case is so sad and baffling for now. Foaming at the mouth has me leaning towards poison or possibly heart condition or more likely RSV type illness. I also wouldn't rule out rabies.

When the heart and lungs are not working properly, fluid builds up around both organs and cells are starved of oxygen. Carbon dioxide and other gases also build up around cells and mix with the fluid, forming a frothy, light-pink or blood-tinted mucus.
I was wondering about RSV because there has been a spike in RSV in babies and the elderly, recently. There appears to be a very contagious and severe type of RSV making the rounds.




In recent weeks, CDC has observed an increase in RSV activity in parts of the Southeastern United States.Sep 5, 2023

If you are suddenly hearing a lot about respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), it is because the virus has come earlier and hit harder than in most years, and is currently surging and straining children's hospitals across the US

 
Rsv is deadly in babies - but after 5, I think the risk significantly decreases. I don’t think that is what happened here but I suppose it’s possible MOO

The different symptoms between the two toddlers are interesting to note.
I think you are right, in general and in normal circumstances. But I've read the the pandemic had an impact upon very young children and their immune systems. By being quarantined and masked for a few years of their early lives, they did not create the immune responses that most infants and toddlers get while they grow.

So it's being said that 3, 4, 5 and 6 yr olds are being hit hard by the flu and other contagious strains that they'd normally be able to easily ward off.

Here is one article as an example:


The CDC said it wants clinicians and caregivers to be aware of RSV because it can be particularly dangerous for babies, young children and older adults.

Last year, RSV also appeared earlier than usual, spiking in October before declining in November. At the time, experts told ABC News that this might have occurred because children were not exposed to potential infection between 2020 and 2022 due to lockdowns, or because they were born during the pandemic.
 
I think you are right, in general and in normal circumstances. But I've read the the pandemic had an impact upon very young children and their immune systems. By being quarantined and masked for a few years of their early lives, they did not create the immune responses that most infants and toddlers get while they grow.

So it's being said that 3, 4, 5 and 6 yr olds are being hit hard by the flu and other contagious strains that they'd normally be able to easily ward off.

Here is one article as an example:


The CDC said it wants clinicians and caregivers to be aware of RSV because it can be particularly dangerous for babies, young children and older adults.

Last year, RSV also appeared earlier than usual, spiking in October before declining in November. At the time, experts told ABC News that this might have occurred because children were not exposed to potential infection between 2020 and 2022 due to lockdowns, or because they were born during the pandemic.
You do bring up a solid point about the pandemic and masking with RSV - I could see what you’re saying about the age being pushed out.

Gosh, I really can’t imagine losing both twins at the same time. I hope the family gets the answers they need and they can find peace somehow.

Curious to know if one or both parents also were sick too?? Whenever my toddlers get sick, it never fails that I do too
 
It turned it the toddler ate paint from the wall / patio got sick and later died being sick for sometime and vomiting. Her name was Sunday

Do you remember if the problem was the paint itself (lead or other chemicals?) or something like pesticides/insecticides that had contaminated the wall?
Just curious because you'd think if eating some dried paint was typically lethal, it would happen to more children. JMO.
 
You do bring up a solid point about the pandemic and masking with RSV - I could see what you’re saying about the age being pushed out.

Gosh, I really can’t imagine losing both twins at the same time. I hope the family gets the answers they need and they can find peace somehow.

Curious to know if one or both parents also were sick too?? Whenever my toddlers get sick, it never fails that I do too
It is very surprising and tragic they died at the same time. I agree. So devastating for that poor family.

All I can think of is maybe , being twins, they were very close and ate and drank from each others utensils and cups, and spent a lot of time together. So whatever infection or illness one had, the other was going to get as well.

If mom is told one has an ear infection and the other has the flu, she is going to just keep them warm, hydrated and resting, and assumes they will steadily improve. I hope she has a strong support system...Prayers coming her way.
 
Do you remember if the problem was the paint itself (lead or other chemicals?) or something like pesticides/insecticides that had contaminated the wall?
Just curious because you'd think if eating some dried paint was typically lethal, it would happen to more children. JMO.
I saw the same episode--IIRC, it was severe lead poisoning. The reason it happened was because the owners ignored the legal regulations about lead paint---which was outlawed and supposed to be stripped and repainted. That was never done on the front porch of that old apartment. And a young toddler was eating flakes of dried lead paint over a small period of time.

Hopefully there aren't too many homes left with that type of illegal levels of lead paint cracking off the walls.
 
I saw the same episode--IIRC, it was severe lead poisoning. The reason it happened was because the owners ignored the legal regulations about lead paint---which was outlawed and supposed to be stripped and repainted. That was never done on the front porch of that old apartment. And a young toddler was eating flakes of dried lead paint over a small period of time.

Hopefully there aren't too many homes left with that type of illegal levels of lead paint cracking off the walls.
Yes exactly but one wonder if it happened once in an apartment complex maybe it happened again? It reminded me of his case because of being sick for a while and vomiting not dying directly after consuming something
 
Hanta virus from rat feces?
or mice...What an interesting and certainly viable possibility. I lived in SW Colorado during the Sin Nombre Hanta virus outbreak that began in May 1993. It was a terrifying time. No one knew what caused it, whether it was transmitted person to person and even very healthy young people who had it were dying of acute respiratory distress after a very short period of time.

From the CDC article History of Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome
"Since 1993, researchers have discovered that there is not just one hantavirus that causes HPS [Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome], but several...

The article goes on to describes Hantavirus variants found in Louisiana and Florida and continues

...Another case occurred in New York. This time, the Sin Nombre-like virus was named New York-1, and the white-footed mouse (Peromyscus leucopus), was implicated as the carrier."
 
Hantavirus is an interesting idea, though you'd think other people would have inhaled it, too? The symptoms seem like a possibility:
Highly unlikely in an urban area. And these children had been ill for a while and would not have been playing outdoors. Big picture, I am sticking with some unregulated folk remedy.
The froth is indicative of pulmonary edema - which is a symptom and not a diagnosis. It can manifest in everything from acute heart failure, suffocation, poisoning, and acute fluid overload.
While I am curious about the COD- this is an unimaginable tragedy on a human level. RIP dear children.
 
I hope that autopsies will be soon done and shed some light on what happened. It should be rather fast because they went to school sick and there is a risk of something spreading to others if the cause is not known.

Came to think about something else what about house plants? Many are poisonous if eaten in bigger quantities and can even lead to death.
 
An autopsy is ongoing, but the medical examiner's office has already told detectives there is no evidence of strangulation or bruising on their bodies.

Police say the mother was so distraught that she had to be hospitalized for observation. She also underwent a psychological exam.

Their apartment was stocked with food, baby clothes and other necessities, and no drugs or paraphernalia were found.

Fire department readings in their apartment did not detect any abnormalities.
It sounds like LE is thoroughly investigating; even the home was checked out to make sure there was enough food for the kids.

I guess the next step is to wait and see what the tox reports show.
 
Highly unlikely in an urban area. And these children had been ill for a while and would not have been playing outdoors.
Mice infestations can be indoors.

CDC: How does hantavirus become airborne?
Hantavirus is spread when virus-containing particles from rodent urine, droppings, or saliva are stirred into the air. It is important to avoid actions that raise dust, such as sweeping or vacuuming. Infection occurs when you breathe in virus particles.
 
Mice infestations can be indoors.

CDC: How does hantavirus become airborne?
Hantavirus is spread when virus-containing particles from rodent urine, droppings, or saliva are stirred into the air. It is important to avoid actions that raise dust, such as sweeping or vacuuming. Infection occurs when you breathe in virus particles.
Absolutely they can. But most hantavirus cases are in rural / farming / ranching areas. Just statistically, 94% of hantavirus cases occur west of the Mississippi. And only certain species of mouse carries it.
Here's a reliable resource: CDC - Hantavirus
 

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