GUILTY NY - Vincent Viafore, 46, Newburgh, 19 April 2015 - #2

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wfgodot said:
"Everything to do with acting like Jody Arias." What sleuthing is this? C'mon. A bathroom shower is not the Hudson River, albeit both hold water. (Unlike the state's case.)
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You are quoting the accused. Where is the evidence besides Angelika Lipinski word?
 
Colie said:
You are quoting the accused. Where is the evidence besides Angelika Lipinski word?
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I'm quoting another poster, after which I'm speaking for myself. (Graswald's birth name, btw, is Lipska.)
 
wfgodot said:
I'm quoting another poster, after which I'm speaking for myself. (Graswald's birth name, btw, is Lipska.)
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Thanks for the correction on her name.

Which poster are you quoting? Speaking for yourself about what/which experts?
 
BunnyHop said:
BBM
Good post. I feel the same.
I happened to catch the show by chance.

I'm glad they showed that cc footage of his car again with one kayak on top-that was bothering me. They said the other was inside.

She really reminds me of Jody Arias. Didn't JA also do yoga in interrogation room? And her demure demeanor--I'm not buying it.

From the show, I learned she was posing in lingerie that day. It was cold, I live in the area. There was ice on the river a few weeks prior. I also learned that she made a confession on the island and that's why they brought her in.

It was also mentioned that a witness saw her flip her own boat as they were approaching.

For those that came late, I have paddled there. The boats they use are not very good. Yes, you can flip a boat. He may have been drinking/drugs prior to their trip. Who knows?

My first instinct found it very odd that they crossed to the west side to launch. That means they had to cross the river in their kayaks. It would have been much easier to launch on the east side (where they live). They would have had a much easier time and been very close to shore. 4PM is not the best time to depart.

Also Bannerman's Island is restricted and she knew that.
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We know, actually, that he had been drinking, on the Island, before he got back in his kayak and accidentally drowned.

As for flipping, as in could she have flipped his boat on purpose. No, she couldn't. In my younger years I competed in national level white water slalom competition. I've paddled rivers on the East Coast from NY down to South Carolina. I'm still a certified canoe and kayak instructor.

Sorry for the immodesty of saying all that, but I'm not just expressing an idle opinion about her not being able to flip his kayak MID-RIVER, especially given the conditions that day.

As for life jackets. IIRC I've read recently that he didn't own one. Sure hope that's false, because if true he had no business paddling on any river any time of the year, much less that river that day.

He made his own choices that day, in any event, and IMO the many bad choices he made caused his death.

BTW...9 million bail in this case is beyond asinine.
 
Hopefully in 13 days we have more to sleuth. This case has been quiet in our local papers. In my circle, most rarely even recall the case despite it happening 10 minutes from where I live.

Another thing I had found interesting awhile ago was the ME report indicating bruising on the lower left chest and arm as well as an abrasion on the torso. I would think that the authorities would have a guestimate of when those injuries likely happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/nyregion/in-autopsy-report-medical-examiner-says-kayaker-was-victim-of-homicide.html?_r=0

I didn't follow the Jodi Arias case, so I have no idea how this case could be similar or not. But I have a hunch, we are going to be in for some surprises because none of this makes sense right now. I know the simplest explanation normally applies to most cases, but I just don't get the feeling that that is the case here. JMHO.
 
silly1 said:
Hopefully in 13 days we have more to sleuth. This case has been quiet in our local papers. In my circle, most rarely even recall the case despite it happening 10 minutes from where I live.

Another thing I had found interesting awhile ago was the ME report indicating bruising on the lower left chest and arm as well as an abrasion on the torso. I would think that the authorities would have a guestimate of when those injuries likely happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/nyregion/in-autopsy-report-medical-examiner-says-kayaker-was-victim-of-homicide.html?_r=0

I didn't follow the Jodi Arias case, so I have no idea how this case could be similar or not. But I have a hunch, we are going to be in for some surprises because none of this makes sense right now. I know the simplest explanation normally applies to most cases, but I just don't get the feeling that that is the case here. JMHO.
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I agree. We will have to wait and see.
 
Hope4More said:
We know, actually, that he had been drinking, on the Island, before he got back in his kayak and accidentally drowned.

I realize that. He also may have been drinking/drugged even prior to that

As for flipping, as in could she have flipped his boat on purpose. No, she couldn't.
I think it's possible.

In my younger years I competed in national level white water slalom competition. I've paddled rivers on the East Coast from NY down to South Carolina. I'm still a certified canoe and kayak instructor.

Sorry for the immodesty of saying all that, but I'm not just expressing an idle opinion about her not being able to flip his kayak MID-RIVER, especially given the conditions that day.

As for life jackets. IIRC I've read recently that he didn't own one. Sure hope that's false, because if true he had no business paddling on any river any time of the year, much less that river that day.

I agree.

He made his own choices that day, in any event, and IMO the many bad choices he made caused his death.

BTW...9 million bail in this case is beyond asinine.
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Red font by me.
 
LinasK said:
She clearly said in parts of it that she did want him dead, that she had a demon side to her that the prosecutors didn't want to see, and that she didn't like the kinky sex (3somes, *advertiser censored*, strip clubs).
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BBM
THAT really creeped me out. They didn't show that part in the first show, so who knows what else she said that we don't know about?
Who knows what other evidence there might be?
 
silly1 said:
Watched the show this morning. Still not convinced of her innocence. My thoughts are that it is a news program that needs to produce a program that will make them money and get them viewers. Editing was done to portray the event the way they wanted it to be portrayed--which seemed to me to be to raise doubt that she caused his death. One thing I thought was interesting was the text messages to Barbara. While I get that it would be odd for someone who is about to harm someone to text someone who lives nearby so there could be a potential witness, is it possible that she knew that her friend Barbara was not at home at the time she was texting her? Again, going back to the "elaborate ruse" statement made earlier by investigators. I still can't help but believe there are key pieces to this puzzle that we are missing otherwise she would not be sitting in OCJ on 9 million dollars bail awaiting trial. JMHO.

As for the statement by Varges, I think it is unprofessional. "Before the Jury weighs in, make up your mind" in my mind implies that we are supposed to believe that they had access to every piece of evidence that will be presented at trial and they presented both sides of the story in an unbiased way.
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Quoting you again because I feel these points are very important.
I came away feeling the whole presentation was biased.
 
I think Angelika made the mistake of admitting that her relationship was not perfect and there were issues she had due to some of the things that were going on in it, and investigators took that information and ran with it.

I can understand her frustration on a level that maybe others can not. I was stuck in a marriage to an alcoholic, where the only way to get out was to leave my home, declare bankruptcy, and fight my way out of the hole I dug myself into. I did not have a full time job, had a young child, and had other responsibilities that made it very difficult to just leave.

Did I try to stop him from driving drunk? You bet I did! Did I fantasize that it would just be easier if he hit a bridge abutment and died while driving home drunk one night? You bet I did! Did I take steps to make that happen? You bet I did NOT! Was it right of me to think of things that way? NO, but when you are so mired down and there does not seem to be any way out, it is sometimes a relief to have a fantasy like that.

At the time the situation seemed impossible. But now, years down the road, it all looks very different. My ex-husband just was released from prison- he served a year for his THIRD DUI arrest, and still does not believe he has an issue with alcohol. He lost a very lucrative job and career in the pharmaceutical industry that he will never replace, due to the fact he is now a convicted felon. His home is in foreclosure and the company who financed his car is currently looking to repo it for non-payment. I am extremely thankful I got out when I did and HIS mess is HIS mess, not mine!

While my life is not perfect, I am remarried, living where I choose to live on my dream property. I have a wonderful husband, who I have not ever fantasized about hitting a bridge abutment. I survived divorce, bankruptcy, losing things I cared about, even though 12-13 years ago I could not imagine how that was going to happen.

I get where Angelika was as far as her relationship with Vincent. It is frustrating to feel that your hands are tied- you cannot just leave for many reasons- money, you do love the person, social stigma and a thousand other things. Do that mean that she actively tried to kill him? Certainly not.

The Hudson was not a "clear as glass pond" that evening. The wind was picking up and causing decent sized waves. It was also cold enough that a person in the water would experience hypothermia very quickly and not be able to save themselves. Angelika is small enough that if she had attacked Vincent in an effort to kill him he could have very easily overpowered her and left her to drown, even with her wearing a life vest. And it was not her responsibility to make him wear a life vest! He was an adult, who should have understood the ramifications of not wearing one and one of those potential ramifications could be death.
 
silly1 said:
Hopefully in 13 days we have more to sleuth. This case has been quiet in our local papers. In my circle, most rarely even recall the case despite it happening 10 minutes from where I live.

Another thing I had found interesting awhile ago was the ME report indicating bruising on the lower left chest and arm as well as an abrasion on the torso. I would think that the authorities would have a guestimate of when those injuries likely happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/nyregion/in-autopsy-report-medical-examiner-says-kayaker-was-victim-of-homicide.html?_r=0

I didn't follow the Jodi Arias case, so I have no idea how this case could be similar or not. But I have a hunch, we are going to be in for some surprises because none of this makes sense right now. I know the simplest explanation normally applies to most cases, but I just don't get the feeling that that is the case here. JMHO.
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Yes the gag order went in last month on all but Angelika.
Both 48 hours and 20/20 were totally Defense orientated. No NY State response.
I will be interesting to see what developes.
 
If I say anything wrong or step on any toes please feel free to remove my post.

This incident happened near my hometown. I know neither AG or VV personally but have friends who know both.

AG's behavior and actions after VV's death were odd, to put it mildly. If I was on the jury I couldn't convict her. But I believe she is guilty.
 
Chi83 said:
If I say anything wrong or step on any toes please feel free to remove my post.

This incident happened near my hometown. I know neither AG or VV personally but have friends who know both.

AG's behavior and actions after VV's death were odd, to put it mildly. If I was on the jury I couldn't convict her. But I believe she is guilty.
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Why do you believe she is guilty? What actions of hers do you find so odd?
 
Well if I watched my fiance drown I wouldn't be doing cartwheels on FB days later.
 
Chi83 said:
Well if I watched my fiance drown I wouldn't be doing cartwheels on FB days later.
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Grieving is a personal and highly individual experience. Everyone's experience of grief is different and produces different feelings.
 
Absolutely true. Like I said, if I was on a jury I could not convict her. But even if I watched my worst enemy drown I would be shaken. This is a man she supposedly loved and intended to marry. She watched him die and she is giddy. Happy even. Could she be just "different"? Sure. But highly unlikely. I couldn't convict her - but people are angry, hurt and distrustful of her. And I agree with them. And he is not here to defend himself.
 
Death by misadventure. Drop the charges unless one can indict the Hudson itself for manslaughter.
 
Ms. Graswald tried to explain what many viewed as the bizarre, joyful behavior she displayed in the days after Mr. Viafore’s drowning, such as videos on Facebook of her doing cartwheels. “I never liked crying in public,” she said. “That’s just not me. I’d much rather put on a happy face and that’s what I did.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/07/n...s-kayak-death-denies-she-killed-him.html?_r=1
 
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