Observations from attending Sunday, 11/30/08 Vigil

[Tricia]

Thank you very much ev1214 and Elizabeth. As Potatohead pointed out, your insights are so valuable to us. Thank you for taking the time to share and answer questions.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I get the feeling there might be something bubbling underneath this discussion.

Step away from the computer if you are getting mad. This works every time.

Remember, I have a paddle with your name on it. Don't make me use it. :crazy::crazy:

 

[BleuEyes]

Thanks for posting Elizabeth. Gives more insight into some of the things we can
only guess at. I have to agree that it would have been nice if the "spokesperson"
had managed to make it about Caylee and not about herself and KFN. No matter
what our opinions are about the family it still comes down to Caylee, and she is
still missing....almost 6 months now.

I think (and it is just mho) that Cindy's meds are starting to kick in and that explains
some of the "detached look" about her recently. She does look quite beaten down.
When my mother was murdered I went through about 4 months of denial and trying
to make deals with a higher power to bring her back or take me too. It was a very
unreal time in my life, as I imagine it is in the Anthony's.

Just as an aside, one of my bro-in-laws was buried in his favorite baseball cap.
You never saw him without one on his head and he looked quite natural (if that's
possible for a dead person). Most mourners thought it was a nice touch, even his
mother did. Just different strokes for different folks.

Again, Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

 

[Oakley]

And the Bible says " Judge not eachother, least ye be Judged". Oh, I'm not a christian but I do think the Bible has merit but you can make a side either way depending on what you pick out.

While judging is wrong, discerning is necessary in order to separate wrong from right, bad from good. Some things are absolute, black or white. I believe it is wrong to judge what is in someone's heart, as there is no way we can say with certainty what is there. But evaluating and analyzing facts is essential in determining what actually happened. Jury's do this all the time. That is what sleuthing is all about, IMO.

 

[Angelfire]

This is my first time posting and I just wanted to give another grandmother's take on this. I am a 57 year old mom of one daughter. She screwed her life up big time with drugs and just would not stop. I had raised her oldest son for almost 9 years until he reached 11 years old and was old enough to take care of himself. Then she took him from me. During that time I had "Dustin" she got pregnant again and had a son "Dylan". We had him almost from the day he was born. I knew in my heart that when he turned old enought she would take him also. Then 8 days before he turned 4 years old he was diagnosed with Leukemia! He had to go through 3 years of chemo, 25 spinal taps and 15 bone marrows. She signed him up on SSI just for the money. She got $1800 back pay which we didn't know about and was getting monthly checks. She finally told me and said the reason she hadn't told me earlier was because she thought I would want the money. I let her know really fast...YOU keep the money and let me keep Dylan. My husband and I then went to an attorney because I knew sooner or later she would take him from me. All the lawyer had to do was tell her he was asking the court to do drug testing on all of us. She was married to another drug head. Well within 2 weeks she had signed papers for us to adopt Dylan. We had already got his bio dad to sign as he didn't want to pay child support.

Well now our son just turned 8 years old and is in remission. We still have to have him tested monthly for the next twenty years, and his immune system is so low that he catches everything coming and going. But we love him so much. I have had people say they don't see how we could have took him and had to go through all the medical treatments and stuff and they just don't know the pleasure it gave us. In fact, I am homeroom mom to a second grader at the age of 57.

I guess the moral of my story and why I feel so strong against the Anthonys is because they should have stepped in long ago and took that child if they really thought she needed them. And now to stand behind their daughter who they have to know killed her because she was in her way. If I even had one idea in my mind that my daughter was mistreating either of her sons I would have turned her in so fast it would have made her head spin. And I would turn away from her and never look back, especially if she had murdered her child. A grandchild is a precious gift to a grandparent. They require nothing but absolute love from that grandparent. And that grandparent should put that child first whenever the need should arrise. I hope and pray that someday Casey has to pay for what she has done and that she never has another child. No one to give her the unconditional love that Caylee gave her. And I hope Casey's parents see Caylee's face every time they look at their murdering child and wonder if she cried for them at the end. I wrote a poem a while back about what I think happened to Caylee and I hope you guys don't mind that I'm putting it on here. I just love my little guy so much I would give my life in a heartbeat for him, certainly never take from him. I fight every day just to make sure he is healthy and happy and get scared too death sometimes that something will happen and I won't have him forever but it certainly won't be for lack of love.

LOVE THROUGH THE EYES OF A CHILD

MOMMY I CAN'T SEE YOU WHEN I CLOSE MY EYES
AND THE RAG ON MY FACE MADE IT HARD NOT TO CRY
I TRIED TO BE GOOD AND STAY OUT OF YOUR WAY
SO YOU COULD VISIT THE MEN THAT YOU LOVED EVERY DAY
MOMMY PLEASE JUST DON'T PUT ME IN THAT DARK OLD PLACE
IT'S HARD TO BREATHE WITH THAT RAG ON MY FACE
SOMETIMES I GET SICK AND I CRY ALL ALONE
I COULD CALL GOD IF I JUST HAD A PHONE
HE WOULDN'T LEAVE ME, HE'D STAY RIGHT HERE
AND WITH HIM HOLDING MY HAND I WOULDN'T FEEL ANY FEAR
MOMMY I LOVE YOU WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME
YOU'RE NOT A NICE MOMMY WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO BE
I CAN HEAR YOU COMING TO OPEN THE TRUNK
I SMELL THE SMELL AND I KNOW YOU ARE DRUNK
I MAY BE INSIDE BUT MY SOUL IS NOT HERE
IT HAS GONE TO A PLACE WHERE THERE WILL BE NO MORE FEAR
I KNOW WHAT YOU DID AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T MIND
I'M IN HEAVEN NOW AND EVERYONE'S KIND
I GLOW FROM THE LOVE THAT COMES FROM THE HEART
WE CAN'T BE TOGETHER, WE WILL JUST BE APART
BUT WHILE YOU ARE THINKING OF THE LIES YOU WILL TELL
JUST REMEMBER MOMMY YOU WILL END UP IN HELL!

 

[Pattymarie]

A couple of questions for Elizabeth.
1. Did you talk to anyone at the vigil?
2. Would you have talked to either of the A's if you could have?
3. Although you describe the church as Baptist, you mentioned they gathered around the A's and "layed hands" on them and prayed them. Was this a Pentecostal group/Charismatic group?
5. Who initiated this laying on of hands/prayer?
6. Was MB involved in the praying?

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

I'd like to know if they asked for money. I assume that's the only reason they keep these vigils going.

 

[MaryAnn]

No problem! I have actually been a little intimidated to post on this site because I thought I would do something wrong. I probably spend about 1 to 2 hours a day on this site...at least!

Lastly, I would really have no problem attending any local events to share my opinions with WebSleuths.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth

Thank you Elizabeth. Your summary of the vigil was very well written. What you said about CA is very touching to me. I know everyone including myself have been bashing CA and GA, but when I read what you wrote it brought tears to my eyes. I can't even imagine how CA feels. Even with all her lies she just trying to protect her family. Unfortunately including her Daughter.

 

[amethyst]

This is my first time posting and I just wanted to give another grandmother's take on this. I am a 57 year old mom of one daughter. She screwed her life up big time with drugs and just would not stop. I had raised her oldest son for almost 9 years until he reached 11 years old and was old enough to take care of himself. Then she took him from me. During that time I had "Dustin" she got pregnant again and had a son "Dylan". We had him almost from the day he was born. I knew in my heart that when he turned old enought she would take him also. Then 8 days before he turned 4 years old he was diagnosed with Leukemia! He had to go through 3 years of chemo, 25 spinal taps and 15 bone marrows. She signed him up on SSI just for the money. She got $1800 back pay which we didn't know about and was getting monthly checks. She finally told me and said the reason she hadn't told me earlier was because she thought I would want the money. I let her know really fast...YOU keep the money and let me keep Dylan. My husband and I then went to an attorney because I knew sooner or later she would take him from me. All the lawyer had to do was tell her he was asking the court to do drug testing on all of us. She was married to another drug head. Well within 2 weeks she had signed papers for us to adopt Dylan. We had already got his bio dad to sign as he didn't want to pay child support.

Well now our son just turned 8 years old and is in remission. We still have to have him tested monthly for the next twenty years, and his immune system is so low that he catches everything coming and going. But we love him so much. I have had people say they don't see how we could have took him and had to go through all the medical treatments and stuff and they just don't know the pleasure it gave us. In fact, I am homeroom mom to a second grader at the age of 57.

I guess the moral of my story and why I feel so strong against the Anthonys is because they should have stepped in long ago and took that child if they really thought she needed them. And now to stand behind their daughter who they have to know killed her because she was in her way. If I even had one idea in my mind that my daughter was mistreating either of her sons I would have turned her in so fast it would have made her head spin. And I would turn away from her and never look back, especially if she had murdered her child. A grandchild is a precious gift to a grandparent. They require nothing but absolute love from that grandparent. And that grandparent should put that child first whenever the need should arrise. I hope and pray that someday Casey has to pay for what she has done and that she never has another child. No one to give her the unconditional love that Caylee gave her. And I hope Casey's parents see Caylee's face every time they look at their murdering child and wonder if she cried for them at the end. I wrote a poem a while back about what I think happened to Caylee and I hope you guys don't mind that I'm putting it on here. I just love my little guy so much I would give my life in a heartbeat for him, certainly never take from him. I fight every day just to make sure he is healthy and happy and get scared too death sometimes that something will happen and I won't have him forever but it certainly won't be for lack of love.

LOVE THROUGH THE EYES OF A CHILD

MOMMY I CAN'T SEE YOU WHEN I CLOSE MY EYES
AND THE RAG ON MY FACE MADE IT HARD NOT TO CRY
I TRIED TO BE GOOD AND STAY OUT OF YOUR WAY
SO YOU COULD VISIT THE MEN THAT YOU LOVED EVERY DAY
MOMMY PLEASE JUST DON'T PUT ME IN THAT DARK OLD PLACE
IT'S HARD TO BREATHE WITH THAT RAG ON MY FACE
SOMETIMES I GET SICK AND I CRY ALL ALONE
I COULD CALL GOD IF I JUST HAD A PHONE
HE WOULDN'T LEAVE ME, HE'D STAY RIGHT HERE
AND WITH HIM HOLDING MY HAND I WOULDN'T FEEL ANY FEAR
MOMMY I LOVE YOU WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME
YOU'RE NOT A NICE MOMMY WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO BE
I CAN HEAR YOU COMING TO OPEN THE TRUNK
I SMELL THE SMELL AND I KNOW YOU ARE DRUNK
I MAY BE INSIDE BUT MY SOUL IS NOT HERE
IT HAS GONE TO A PLACE WHERE THERE WILL BE NO MORE FEAR
I KNOW WHAT YOU DID AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T MIND
I'M IN HEAVEN NOW AND EVERYONE'S KIND
I GLOW FROM THE LOVE THAT COMES FROM THE HEART
WE CAN'T BE TOGETHER, WE WILL JUST BE APART
BUT WHILE YOU ARE THINKING OF THE LIES YOU WILL TELL
JUST REMEMBER MOMMY YOU WILL END UP IN HELL!

From one granny to another, I couldn't agree with you more and welcome to Websleuths:blowkiss:

 

[ev1214]

A couple of questions for Elizabeth.
1. Did you talk to anyone at the vigil?
2. Would you have talked to either of the A's if you could have?
3. Although you describe the church as Baptist, you mentioned they gathered around the A's and "layed hands" on them and prayed them. Was this a Pentecostal group/Charismatic group?
5. Who initiated this laying on of hands/prayer?
6. Was MB involved in the praying?

Hi,

I don't believe I answered all of these questions yet....it has been a long last two days!
A couple of questions for Elizabeth.

1. Did you talk to anyone at the vigil?
No, I didn't speak to anyone.
2. Would you have talked to either of the A's if you could have?
Yes and no. In this specific setting I would not have because of cameras and also the people around them of which a majority I would not want to be associated with. Yes, that sounds somewhat judgemental, but it is my personal opinion.

However, with that said I would absolutely talk to either of them in the right situation.
In fact, I had a situation come up a couple of months ago...
I was driving from an appointment to another appointment. I was on the phone and did a doubletake because I saw GA at his site he use to have with the white tent. I believe promoting finding missing children as a whole and then also his grandaughter.
I turned around (while on the phone) and pulled into the parking lot. Unfortunately, the client that I was on the phone with I could not end the conversation with. Had a not been running late to my next appointment I was planning on getting out of the car to just say hello and let him know that his family was in my thoughts and prayers.

3. Although you describe the church as Baptist, you mentioned they gathered around the A's and "layed hands" on them and prayed them. Was this a Pentecostal group/Charismatic group?
I don't believe so and also the fact that it was Baptist had nothing to do with the vigil from what I gathered. I don't know if this is the A's place of worship; however, if it isn't then I would assume it just happen to be the church that they approached that opened their doors to them.
I imagine multiple churchs would have though....which, again circles back to why I think it was a wierd church to choose.

5. Who initiated this laying on of hands/prayer?
I don't know the correct title, but it was a minister/reverand/priest??? that initiated everyone coming up to circle around the A's in support and prayer of them.
That was actually a VERY uncomfortable moment for me because the only people that didn't go up were 1 or 2 reports, myself, and a couple of older people who had walkers and would of had a difficult time going up to there.

If you have ever seen people crowding around them on there driveway vigil that is exactly what it looks like.

6. Was MB involved in the praying?
I would assume so, but not sure.

What seems so wierd is that if you think of any other similiar case..young, white, girl missing even if it has been that the suspect is a family member or a boyfriend or girlfriend of a family member there is typically at least one very large service.

I thought this would of been "that" service. It just goes to show you that unfortunately the actions and words I think primarily of Cindy has essentially poisoned the sentiment of the Orlando community. Tim tried to turn it around and he got close at one point, but then it was smashed when Cindy would not give up an item of Caylee's to help in the search.

It just is so sad. No one can save these people from themselves.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth

 

[Pattymarie]

Thank you very much for your detailed answers. The reason I was curious about whether these people at the vigil that did the laying on of hands/prayer were from the charismatic/pentecostal fringe arm of the christian church was I was once associated with this type of church. They do that kind of prayer. Believe me, some of these fringe church elements can very much get you to believing in an "us" against "them" mentality. A type of thinking where those in these groups feel they have the "Truth" and foster feelings of persecution at those "in the world" who cannot see this "Truth." I could easily see the A's being very vulnerable to such people at such a time of need in their lives.

I myself, got caught up in such a group when I was diagnosed with cancer along time ago. Initially, belonging to this group was like heaven on earth. They helped me make sense, so I thought of such a horrendous diagnosis at age 24. I was also told I was pregnant the day before I got the cancer diagnosis. You can imagine my vulnerability for love and a need for a "spiritual" answer to this horrible time in my life. (Eventually, I became aware of what a controlling, manipulative, cult-like atmosphere I found myself in and we suffered a terrible exit from this group).

That is why I was so curious as to the type of religious people they were surrounding themselves with. These groups are often made up of very needy people, themselves.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

It struck me as odd when GA talked about the emails released from the last doc dump which came from CA's brother, saying this was the first he'd heard of it. These emails dated back to August, became very blunt even involving her mother to some degree and ended with CA severing ties with her brother; yet she never told GA about the family turmoil.

I also said "What??". Do these people really not converse with each other even though they are in the same house? I can't believe Cindy not going off the deep end each time she read an e-mail from Rick, her mom, and any other family member telling her to hold Casey accountable. Then George tells the TV news reporter, the first time I heard of it was when it was released to the media. Really, George, get a grip. We're not buying it!

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Just as an aside, one of my bro-in-laws was buried in his favorite baseball cap.
You never saw him without one on his head and he looked quite natural (if that's
possible for a dead person). Most mourners thought it was a nice touch, even his
mother did. Just different strokes for different folks.

Again, Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Sweety, I'm terribly sorry to hear about your dear mom. I know you miss her terribly.

The beef about the baseball cap was because the guy wore his in church. No respect at all. Burying someone with his cap on his head is a totally different story. My son was buried wear his baseball cap, too.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

This is my first time posting and I just wanted to give another grandmother's take on this. I am a 57 year old mom of one daughter. She screwed her life up big time with drugs and just would not stop. I had raised her oldest son for almost 9 years until he reached 11 years old and was old enough to take care of himself. Then she took him from me. During that time I had "Dustin" she got pregnant again and had a son "Dylan". We had him almost from the day he was born. I knew in my heart that when he turned old enought she would take him also. Then 8 days before he turned 4 years old he was diagnosed with Leukemia! He had to go through 3 years of chemo, 25 spinal taps and 15 bone marrows. She signed him up on SSI just for the money. She got $1800 back pay which we didn't know about and was getting monthly checks. She finally told me and said the reason she hadn't told me earlier was because she thought I would want the money. I let her know really fast...YOU keep the money and let me keep Dylan. My husband and I then went to an attorney because I knew sooner or later she would take him from me. All the lawyer had to do was tell her he was asking the court to do drug testing on all of us. She was married to another drug head. Well within 2 weeks she had signed papers for us to adopt Dylan. We had already got his bio dad to sign as he didn't want to pay child support.

Well now our son just turned 8 years old and is in remission. We still have to have him tested monthly for the next twenty years, and his immune system is so low that he catches everything coming and going. But we love him so much. I have had people say they don't see how we could have took him and had to go through all the medical treatments and stuff and they just don't know the pleasure it gave us. In fact, I am homeroom mom to a second grader at the age of 57.

I guess the moral of my story and why I feel so strong against the Anthonys is because they should have stepped in long ago and took that child if they really thought she needed them. And now to stand behind their daughter who they have to know killed her because she was in her way. If I even had one idea in my mind that my daughter was mistreating either of her sons I would have turned her in so fast it would have made her head spin. And I would turn away from her and never look back, especially if she had murdered her child. A grandchild is a precious gift to a grandparent. They require nothing but absolute love from that grandparent. And that grandparent should put that child first whenever the need should arrise. I hope and pray that someday Casey has to pay for what she has done and that she never has another child. No one to give her the unconditional love that Caylee gave her. And I hope Casey's parents see Caylee's face every time they look at their murdering child and wonder if she cried for them at the end. I wrote a poem a while back about what I think happened to Caylee and I hope you guys don't mind that I'm putting it on here. I just love my little guy so much I would give my life in a heartbeat for him, certainly never take from him. I fight every day just to make sure he is healthy and happy and get scared too death sometimes that something will happen and I won't have him forever but it certainly won't be for lack of love.

LOVE THROUGH THE EYES OF A CHILD

MOMMY I CAN'T SEE YOU WHEN I CLOSE MY EYES
AND THE RAG ON MY FACE MADE IT HARD NOT TO CRY
I TRIED TO BE GOOD AND STAY OUT OF YOUR WAY
SO YOU COULD VISIT THE MEN THAT YOU LOVED EVERY DAY
MOMMY PLEASE JUST DON'T PUT ME IN THAT DARK OLD PLACE
IT'S HARD TO BREATHE WITH THAT RAG ON MY FACE
SOMETIMES I GET SICK AND I CRY ALL ALONE
I COULD CALL GOD IF I JUST HAD A PHONE
HE WOULDN'T LEAVE ME, HE'D STAY RIGHT HERE
AND WITH HIM HOLDING MY HAND I WOULDN'T FEEL ANY FEAR
MOMMY I LOVE YOU WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME
YOU'RE NOT A NICE MOMMY WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO BE
I CAN HEAR YOU COMING TO OPEN THE TRUNK
I SMELL THE SMELL AND I KNOW YOU ARE DRUNK
I MAY BE INSIDE BUT MY SOUL IS NOT HERE
IT HAS GONE TO A PLACE WHERE THERE WILL BE NO MORE FEAR
I KNOW WHAT YOU DID AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T MIND
I'M IN HEAVEN NOW AND EVERYONE'S KIND
I GLOW FROM THE LOVE THAT COMES FROM THE HEART
WE CAN'T BE TOGETHER, WE WILL JUST BE APART
BUT WHILE YOU ARE THINKING OF THE LIES YOU WILL TELL
JUST REMEMBER MOMMY YOU WILL END UP IN HELL!

Angelfire, excellent first post. You definitely have a writing talent. Your poem brought tears to my eyes. You stated so clearly why so many are upset with the Anthonys, and especially Cindy. She is siding with a murderer and not seeking justice for the precious child who needed her protection.

As a mom, I understand the leukemia battle. We fought it, too, with my son. I was totally drained by the end of it - 13 hard months. Three years for you must have been almost unbearable. Joyously, your battle has been successful and I pray it remains so. I think going through the trauma, fighting for a child's life, only makes it seem more precious, and to watch the As support Casey and fight off anyone who wants to offer them real sympathy, compassion, and assistance, just makes it extremely difficult to witness. I'd give the world to have my child today. I can't see how Cindy can hold back from tearing Casey limb from limb.

Caylee depended on them and no one stood up for her.

I'll pray for you and your family.

 

[Meagain]

I personally am keeping in mind the Cameras were filming her there.

 

[essies]

I personally am keeping in mind the Cameras were filming her there.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[zoey]

I personally am keeping in mind the Cameras were filming her there.

probably why CA kept her head down...I just don't buy it

jmo

 

[Meagain]

Also when they did that presser with the new spokesperson KFN woman speaking. Watching Cindy, my mind replayed Susan Smith.

 

[essies]

Also when they did that presser with the new spokesperson KFN woman speaking. Watching Cindy, my mind replayed Susan Smith.

At least Susan Smith pretended to be upset and beg for a return! This "spiteful b!$ch" couldn't even muster up the slightest bit of emotion until the GJ when she pulled a tear or two out of her soulless eyes. And then she had to check and make sure she hadn't messed up her eye makeup! CA trying to show extreme emotion now is alittle too late for me!! Emotion for what-that Caylee is gone? (nah!!) Emotion because the "script" isn't working, as a matter of fact, IT'S CRASHING AND BURNING!! Even this hacked E mail story is full of BS.:furious:

 

[zoey]

Also when they did that presser with the new spokesperson KFN woman speaking. Watching Cindy, my mind replayed Susan Smith.

'cept SS looked upset with tears---something yet to witness with any presser to date--especally in the start--just not there--still think that any and all times are a performance only...we've all been harping on lack of emotion and now there is "emotion" but you don't actually see it...just don't buy it----sadly we have seen to many in that situation ---

jmo

 

[zoey]

At least Susan Smith pretended to be upset and beg for a return! This "spiteful b!$ch" couldn't even muster up the slightest bit of emotion until the GJ when she pulled a tear or two out of her soulless eyes. And then she had to check and make sure she hadn't messed up her eye makeup! CA trying to show extreme emotion now is alittle too late for me!! Emotion for what-that Caylee is gone? (nah!!) Emotion because the "script" isn't working, as a matter of fact, IT'S CRASHING AND BURNING!! Even this hacked E mail story is full of BS.:furious:

also would love for them to use action instead of pressers for any of this "groundbreaking news" that they annouce all the time...reminds me of the boy who cried wolf one to many times or perhaps chicken little???:chicken::chicken:
jmo