GUILTY OH - Barb Williams for child abuse, Hancock County, 2014

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, but a positive, responsive classroom environment as I'm sure you know is so much more than just finding ways to give praise. It's framing every single interaction in a positive way. It's an art and it's a skill.



I've met many good people who believe that dealing with children in a positive way means all rules and expectations have to go out the window, and that's just not true. Positivity is about being kind, clear, and consistent in every single interaction with the children. Kind. Clear. Consistent. And when we have to be firm we do it with kindness.



I seen teachers and teachers aides just heap negativity on children. Berating them in a way that's sadly socially acceptable. But it does not work.

I didn't mean to make it sound as if "praise" was the end all be all...but it does seem to get their attention pretty quick in those first few days!

Dealing with children one on one in the home setting is much much easier than a classroom setting, I would imagine.


Kind, clear and consistent should be every parents and teachers standard 100% of the time. IMO


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[Linda7NJ]

Without going into specifics about any particular case, how would you feel about a child who repeatedly victimized your child or niece and left bruises and bitemarks and nothing was done to control that child all year and finally the teacher grabbed the child up by the shirt collar and screamed in his face?

Have you ever been in the situation where your child was in a class with a child who was injuring others and nothing was ever effectively done about it by the school system? And every day you sent your child wondering if your kid was going to come home with another bite mark?

Again, I really want to keep that question generic and don't want to go into specifics of any case.

As a parent, I would not allow it.
I would not send my child to school to be repeatedly physically abused all year.
I wouldn't suggest my daughter ( if I had one) to return to her abusive boyfriend/husband repeatedly either.


It's my job to protect my child or see that he can protect himself.





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[JeannaT]

As a parent, I would not allow it.
I would not send my child to school to be repeatedly physically abused all year. It's my job to protect my child or see he can protect himself.





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So in a classroom such as that, you would withdraw your child or ask for a transfer to another classroom or ask that the child doing the injuring be expelled? What specifically, would you probably do in that situation?

 

[Linda7NJ]

So in a classroom such as that, you would withdraw your child or ask for a transfer to another classroom or ask that the child doing the injuring be expelled? What specifically, would you probably do in that situation?

I'd give my child my 100% full support & permission to defend himself and knock the snot out of the other kid after the second time.

If he wasn't capable...


I'd find another school.


What would you tell your 16 yr old daughter if she confided in you her boyfriend routinely physically abused her?




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[lonetraveler]

What did his teacher, teach him THAT day???


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She taught him that the next time he has a confrontation with one of his classmates he needs to slam that classmate against the wall, step on his/her foot, grab him/her by the head and yank it up in the air against the wall, and then tell the classmate that he is going to rip them apart. That is what he was taught that day.

 

[Hejlena]

I didn't mean to make it sound as if "praise" was the end all be all...but it does seem to get their attention pretty quick in those first few days!

Dealing with children one on one in the home setting is much much easier than a classroom setting, I would imagine.


Kind, clear and consistent should be every parents and teachers standard 100% of the time. IMO


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Sorry-I meant to say that I think there is a failure of the general public to understand the use of praise and a positive classroom environment.

In fact, I've seen many schools in our district throw up their hands and let certain children run through the hallways, punch teachers (I kid you not) and generally skirt the rules because, in certain teachers and administrators (some paraphrased, some not so much) words, "Welp, we've been told not to suspend them so what can we do?"

Instead of intentionally focusing on a positive, responsive environment.

 

[Flutterby80]

Without going into specifics about any particular case, how would you feel about a child who repeatedly victimized your child or niece and left bruises and bitemarks and nothing was done to control that child all year and finally the teacher grabbed the child up by the shirt collar and screamed in his face?

Have you ever been in the situation where your child was in a class with a child who was injuring others and nothing was ever effectively done about it by the school system? And every day you sent your child wondering if your kid was going to come home with another bite mark?

Again, I really want to keep that question generic and don't want to go into specifics of any case.

No, my son has never come home with bite marks from another child. Bruises? Heck yes. I'm not sure what you're asking so I'll guess. Would I be ok with this behavior from BW if BW was my child's teacher and this little guy had a history of biting my child? Still no. I would be concerned that my son's teacher not only lacked the ability to keep my son safe from another child, but also that she was caught on video and by another teacher threatening to rip a six year old apart.

Don't you think that it's the teacher's responsibility to respond to the needs of the kids in her class? Whether she personally likes the kid or his parents, or not? If she is presented with a child whose behavior she doesn't know how to handle, are there not resources available to learn? In my job, if I am presented with something that I don't know how to deal with, I don't just complain about it and hope it goes away. I do research, I ask colleagues, I utilize all resources at my disposal. I mean, isn't this the commonly expected response when an adult is presented with a professional challenge? The profession she chose was teaching kindergarteners.

Did I answer your question? I'm a little loopy from being in the sun all day. It's been a looooong winter and we are not used to that big ball in the sky around here yet.

 

[screecher]

... It's rather hypocritical, IMO, to allow discussion to scapegoat this woman....

RSBM

hypocrite per Merriam-Webster:

hyp·o·crite
noun \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\

: a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs
Full Definition of HYPOCRITE
1
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2
: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings


scapegoat per Merriam-Webster:


Full Definition of SCAPEGOAT
1
: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2
a : one that bears the blame for others
b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

Which definition of hypocrite and scapegoat are you referring to?

Please explain.

I feel the same way, K_Z. I always see shades of gray in everything and am surprised at black and white thinking.

Additionally, I don't believe 6 year olds are innocent creatures with no ability to distinguish right from wrong. Again, shades of gray, and although babies are incapable of moral decisions, 6 year olds certainly are capable of knowing not to assault classmates.

I also agree that until there is a charge of a crime here, this discussion doesn't belong on this forum. As I understand it, the grand jury is going to make the decision whether charges are appropriate and then I guess the DA will decide whether to press those charges.

Do tell, what shades of gray did you see in that video? No mistaking/misinterpreting what was on that video.

Also, do you believe a 50+ year old woman, who has taught for YEARS certainly, is capable of knowing not to assault her students?

I just don't get the mindset, the victim is the cause of Barb Williams criminal actions.

IMO, the video absolutely SHOWS a CRIME. Whether she's charged is another thing.

While I understand the references to black and white vs gray thinking, it is always upsetting to me when a victim is discussed in such a manner in which it seems an attempt to shift any part of the blame/responsibility away from the attacker and onto the victim. I think it bothers me around 1000% more if that victim is a small child and the attacker is a person who accepts responsibility for the child (parent, coach ..... teacher).

And just personally, it's not even really the physical assault that has me feeling the teacher is not some innocent, sweet little granny who had one bad reaction in one bad moment that just HAPPENED to be recorded. Which...wow, talk about awful luck and terrible odds. No, it's the words she used to threaten this little boy. Those words are not on the tip of any sweet little granny tongues that I ever knew. Those are hateful, vicious words "I will rip you apart" meant to terrorize and I bet they did the trick.

This is what I can't get past. A six year old. "I will rip you apart". I just don't see the gray area.

BBM

I so agree. "I will rip you apart" WTH says that???

 

[JeannaT]

I'd give my child my 100% full support & permission to defend himself and knock the snot out of the other kid after the second time.

If he wasn't capable...


I'd find another school.


What would you tell your 16 yr old daughter if she confided in you her boyfriend routinely physically abused her?




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Well, I do like that first line. I don't like the second line though - I don't think an innocent child should be removed from the classroom if there is a student who is biting them and bruising them. I think THAT child should be removed and should not be allowed to continue terrorizing the other students.

In the second case it would break my heart that my teenage daughter was continuing to date an abusive boy, and my husband would tell him to his face, along with his parents, that if he came around anymore I'd call the police. I'm not quite sure where that scenario was going, it's a bit far afield from what we are discussing.

 

[Hejlena]

She taught him that the next time he has a confrontation with one of his classmates he needs to slam that classmate against the wall, step on his/her foot, grab him/her by the head and yank it up in the air against the wall, and then tell the classmate that he is going to rip them apart. That is what he was taught that day.

Yep. And he'll get suspended or expelled under an inane zero tolerance policy. Because we don't allow violence in our schools. *snort*

 

[lonetraveler]

I'm really sorry that that happened to you and hope when you did tell, the situation got better.

I've seen that dynamic too, and have been a victim of it in a much lesser degree than you suffered. My kids, also, have had teachers who either liked them a LOT inexplicably despite behavior issues, or disliked them a lot inexplicably despite good grades and respectful behavior. I had a 7th grade history teacher call me out into the hallway and reamed me out for about 5 minutes and then sent me to the principals office for reading ahead in my history book. We were to be reading the chapter and I had already finished the chapter, and was reading the next one. Inexplicable and it was gratifying to have the principal shake his head with puzzlement and send me back to school with no consequences. I was always an A student in her class and was too shy to make much noise at all. She just had open disdain for me all year, and I never knew why.

There are teachers who take a liking or a disliking to kids and it sounds like your experience was extreme and needed to be stopped and the teacher fired. In lesser cases it gives us experience in dealing with adversity that will come in handy in future situations of unjust treatment.

That very negative experience helped me become the champion of abused children. I will always speak out rather popular or not when I see a blatant abuse of a child. Believe it or not, I do believe in a spanking when warranted. The embarrassment felt after a public spanking IMO installs a recognition of a consequence for actions. I'm talking about a swat on the behind and nothing more. In this instance, there is so much more than a swat on the behind, there is actual physical and psychological abuse here, IMO. The physical abuse as seen in the video could have resulted in a permanent injury to the child. The psychological abuse could also be a permanent injury and affect how he interacts with authority figures throughout his life. It could also influence how he interacts with other children or even his own children later in life.

LOL, maybe it is a remnant of my experience as a student for an "evil" teacher but I must be truthful here; if this teacher did this to my child or grandchild, she would have to deal with me. It is what it is, that is just how I feel when I watch this video.

It really doesn't matter what happened during the year to frustrate this teacher or what happened that morning. Really doesn't matter. What does matter is a 240 lb adult teacher stepping on this 40 lb child's foot and grabbing him under his chin and snatching him up against the wall. Plain and simple, that is all that matters to me.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, I do like that first line. I don't like the second line though - I don't think an innocent child should be removed from the classroom if there is a student who is biting them and bruising them. I think THAT child should be removed and should not be allowed to continue terrorizing the other students.



In the second case it would break my heart that my teenage daughter was continuing to date an abusive boy, and my husband would tell him to his face, along with his parents, that if he came around anymore I'd call the police. I'm not quite sure where that scenario was going, it's a bit far afield from what we are discussing.

What I think is fair and should happen isn't always what will happen. ( removing my child) I understand that. Life isn't always fair.




I disagree that it isn't on topic.

My goal is to raise a productive law abiding adult. Everything I do, I do with that in mind.
That means I want my child to advocate for himself and defend himself, if that's not possible.. And my child is being abused because the school won't do anything after reporting it and playing by their rules...if my child isn't capable of defending himself because the kid is bigger or stronger or whatever.. It's MY job to protect him by removing him.
Sending a child back day after day to be abused the entire school year teaches him what?
It teaches him that following the rules doesn't work, the teachers don't care, his parents don't care, no one has his back. after awhile he will come to believe he doesn't deserve any better.

How that ties into my imaginary daughter scenario?...
Just replace the boy in the above scenario with the girl...what has she been taught by sending her back to school to be abused everyday?
I hope to instill the self worth that no child of mine would think it's acceptable or excusable to abuse another human being. Child/adult it doesn't matter. It's wrong. And hopefully no child of mine would ever put up with being abused. that can and should be taught early.

All IMO








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[JeannaT]

Thanks for your perspective lonetraveler. There isn't anything in your post that I disagree with in the slightest.

I think maybe most of us are in possession of different facts about this case, so our sympathies aren't all in the same place, and that's why my sympathies are similar to those in the community and others sympathies are with those who only have watched the video and don't have empathy for other members in the community who feel like I do.

And I agree - if a teacher you described treated my child or grandchild like you were treated, changes would be made. ;D

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thanks for your perspective lonetraveler. There isn't anything in your post that I disagree with in the slightest.

I think maybe most of us are in possession of different facts about this case, so our sympathies aren't all in the same place, and that's why my sympathies are similar to those in the community and others sympathies are with those who only have watched the video and don't have empathy for other members in the community who feel like I do.

And I agree - if a teacher you described treated my child or grandchild like you were treated, changes would be made. ;D

Let's, for the sake of argument, this child behaved like the spawn of satan himself. He bit, kicked and spat on every child in that classroom, all year long. His victims parents couldn't stand him. They were tired of their children coming home every day injured, crying and bruised. their parents ALLOWED it and SENT their children back for more.

It doesn't matter in the least to me.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with this teachers actions.

Their parents should have been more proactive and protected their own.

Still not a single shred of grey am I seeing.

All IMO.


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[Hejlena]

Thanks for your perspective lonetraveler. There isn't anything in your post that I disagree with in the slightest.

I think maybe most of us are in possession of different facts about this case, so our sympathies aren't all in the same place, and that's why my sympathies are similar to those in the community and others sympathies are with those who only have watched the video and don't have empathy for other members in the community who feel like I do.

And I agree - if a teacher you described treated my child or grandchild like you were treated, changes would be made. ;D

The only facts I need are in the video. Really. This special information some have gleaned from Facebook and newspaper rumors in no way affects my opinion.

Teachers are not allowed to threaten and physically abuse students. Good god, how hard is that?

 

[JeannaT]

The only facts I need are in the video. Really. This special information some have gleaned from Facebook and newspaper rumors in no way affects my opinion.

Teachers are not allowed to threaten and physically abuse students. Good god, how hard is that?

I do understand that there are people who see this like you do - [modsnip]

The superintendent, the principal, and the community need other facts and have relied on other facts than what are in this video. I'm with them. I always welcome more information and don't limit myself to a photo or a very short video to make a decision about whether someone should go to jail.

I do, however, agree that BW should resign.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I do understand that there are people who see this like you do - [modsnip]

The superintendent, the principal, and the community need other facts and have relied on other facts than what are in this video. I'm with them. I always welcome more information and don't limit myself to a photo or a very short video to make a decision about whether someone should go to jail.

I do, however, agree that BW should resign.

Please link me to these "facts" on which you have relied.


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[lonetraveler]

Thanks for your perspective lonetraveler. There isn't anything in your post that I disagree with in the slightest.

I think maybe most of us are in possession of different facts about this case, so our sympathies aren't all in the same place, and that's why my sympathies are similar to those in the community and others sympathies are with those who only have watched the video and don't have empathy for other members in the community who feel like I do.

And I agree - if a teacher you described treated my child or grandchild like you were treated, changes would be made. ;D

I have researched this case and consider myself fully learned as yourself as to what some others have stated about this child's actions at the school. In no way does this child's previous actions influence my opinion regarding this "professional" teacher's abuse of this six year old child. No matter how much I read and learn about parents frustrations concerning this child's behavior does it justify this teacher's actions.

The fact that she is married to a pastor doesn't even register on the scale here either. In fact it is a negative. Anyone who follows threads here know that many religious cults, groups, churches, you name it, practice abuse against children, all in the name of religion.

IMO, the school system failed by their in-actions to properly handle the situation before this event happened. But even that does not in any way justify what this teacher did to this child. She is responsible for her own actions and should be held accountable.

 

[Hejlena]

I do understand that there are people who see this like you do - [modsnip]

The superintendent, the principal, and the community need other facts and have relied on other facts than what are in this video. I'm with them. I always welcome more information and don't limit myself to a photo or a very short video to make a decision about whether someone should go to jail.

I do, however, agree that BW should resign.

Never said jail.
Not ganging up on anyone.
Stating my opinion based on available facts.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have researched this case and consider myself fully learned as yourself as to what some others have stated about this child's actions at the school. In no way does this child's previous actions influence my opinion regarding this "professional" teacher's abuse of this six year old child. No matter how much I read and learn about parents frustrations concerning this child's behavior does it justify this teacher's actions.

The fact that she is married to a pastor doesn't even register on the scale here either. In fact it is a negative. Anyone who follows threads here know that many religious cults, groups, churches, you name it, practice abuse against children, all in the name of religion.

IMO, the school system failed by their in-actions to properly handle the situation before this event happened. But even that does not in any way justify what this teacher did to this child. She is responsible for her own actions and should be held accountable.

Don't most physical abusers blame their victim/victims?




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