OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #2

[Satch]

Who was the band that played at The Ugly Tuna that night? Were the band member's interviewed? Didn't Clint say that Brian said he wanted to talk to the band? Brian could have been invited to do drugs with the band. With Brian already intoxicated, this could have influenced his good judgement otherwise.

Perhaps it was a popular band and Brian thought that hanging out with them would be "awesome!" Maybe Brian got stoned and the combination of being wasted as well made him very ill. He could have been given drugs by the band members. Been knocked unconscious from the effects of the drugs and booze, and died. I agree with what I read online. Who intentionally goes missing leaving their friends behind after drinking shots all night? How many employee exits are in the Ugly Tuna for employees only or performers at the bar?

But with that said, where is Bran's body if this drug overdose and resulting accidental death happened?

Satch

 

[MatthewTyler]

Who was the band that played at The Ugly Tuna that night? Were the band member's interviewed? Didn't Clint say that Brian said he wanted to talk to the band? Brian could have been invited to do drugs with the band. With Brian already intoxicated, this could have influenced his good judgement otherwise.

Perhaps it was a popular band and Brian thought that hanging out with them would be "awesome!" Maybe Brian got stoned and the combination of being wasted as well made him very ill. He could have been given drugs by the band members. Been knocked unconscious from the effects of the drugs and booze, and died. I agree with what I read online. Who intentionally goes missing leaving their friends behind after drinking shots all night? How many employee exits are in the Ugly Tuna for employees only or performers at the bar?

But with that said, where is Bran's body if this drug overdose and resulting accidental death happened?

Satch

There's no information at all about the name of the band. You simply won't find it on the internet. The band members were interviewed but claimed to have no knowledge of Brian.I don't believe that Brian ever said he wanted to talk to the band. Personally I don't think it made much sense. I think Brian had already split before that. If Clint wanted to leave, why not just go with Brian over to the band? Why separate again? Clint probably just said that as an alibi for being away from Brian longer and used that as an excuse for why he left without him. Brian's body, IF this accidental overdose did occur, could be buried anywhere really. Ohio is a state where you can literally be in nothing but farmland once you exit the city perimeters

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I remember seeing this as well, and can't say for sure if it came from an actual news source. This leads me to believe that drugs were somehow involved. I wish the police did grant him immunity just so he could talk and maybe lead them somewhere

I wish they would too. They probably can't write him a blank check like that tho bc they have no guarantee what he could reveal...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[itsallaboutthequeen]

Ohio is a state where you can literally be in nothing but farmland once you exit the city perimeters

I think a lot of people don't realize this but once you drive a short ways out of Columbus(which is a really small city!) it's immediately woods/farm/fields and there is basically nothing around until you drive an hour away closer to either Cleveland/Akron or Dayton. You can zip out of the city very fast on 70 or 71.

 

[MatthewTyler]

I wish they would too. They probably can't write him a blank check like that tho bc they have no guarantee what he could reveal...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True. Statute of limitations is up for most things, so unless he reveals that he murdered Brian, I would think anything else would be okay. Of course he also could have been telling the truth when he said he stopped talking to police because he told all he knew and wanted to just distance his name from the case. However, I think I've watched to many crime shows to know that that rarely is the case- the good friends almost always knows something OR was the perp.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

True. Statute of limitations is up for most things, so unless he reveals that he murdered Brian, I would think anything else would be okay. Of course he also could have been telling the truth when he said he stopped talking to police because he told all he knew and wanted to just distance his name from the case. However, I think I've watched to many crime shows to know that that rarely is the case- the good friends almost always knows something OR was the perp.

I go round and round with this, but for me, the chance is low that the one person who the camera misses is also the one person who turns up missing.

I found the reports of police officers who reviewed the construction site on Monday with dogs to be credible. They didn't seem to believe the state or stage of the construction, or set up, allowed for any possibility of his body being intentionally or accidentally sealed away there.

For me that means he went out a back door, voluntarily or against his will. And I still lean toward a voluntary exit at that point. Because if something ill fated happened at the restaurant as it was closing, then it would be difficult to hide from other workers, patrons, people on the street, and Clint and Meredith.

More likely, then, he left peaceably through an exit with a band member or employee or a person who wanted to use or sell him drugs in an undetected area.

From there, I don't think random muggings that resulted in death make sense as the perps would likely want to split fast and not hang around to hide the body. Plus, would an assault and body removal like that go completely unnoticed by cameras and people?)

So in my mind, I think he wandered away, got disoriented, and fell victim to a yet undiscovered accident (or, less likely bc he was planning things and had a lot to live for, suicide due to being in an altered state due to grief and substance use).

Or he left the scene, while still alive, with someone...in a vehicle...so cameras didn't pick him up. He went somewhere else and was killed or accidentally died and the perps are either professionals or very lucky party-ers that they happened to choose some remote dumping spot that hasn't been searched. (I still picture only one or two people. A group would be less likely to stay silent all this time.)

Could he have pre planned the whole thing to abandon everyone for a tropical island? I think he was smart enough to make a go of that if he really was bound and determined to do so. But the fact he went missing after a long night of drinking doesn't suggest to me he was following some careful plot to disappear. I wish. But I think he got out of the building and died by accident on his way home or at a place he went to with a small group of others.

The problem, which picks up on one of the posters' comments above, is once he gets into the car, his body could've been hidden even out of state.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brainy]

I go round and round with this, but for me, the chance is low that the one person who the camera misses is also the one person who turns up missing.

I found the reports of police officers who reviewed the construction site on Monday with dogs to be credible. They didn't seem to believe the state or stage of the construction, or set up, allowed for any possibility of his body being intentionally or accidentally sealed away there.

For me that means he went out a back door, voluntarily or against his will. And I still lean toward a voluntary exit at that point. Because if something ill fated happened at the restaurant as it was closing, then it would be difficult to hide from other workers, patrons, people on the street, and Clint and Meredith.

More likely, then, he left peaceably through an exit with a band member or employee or a person who wanted to use or sell him drugs in an undetected area.

From there, I don't think random muggings that resulted in death make sense as the perps would likely want to split fast and not hang around to hide the body. Plus, would an assault and body removal like that go completely unnoticed by cameras and people?)

So in my mind, I think he wandered away, got disoriented, and fell victim to a yet undiscovered accident (or, less likely bc he was planning things and had a lot to live for, suicide due to being in an altered state due to grief and substance use).

Or he left the scene, while still alive, with someone...in a vehicle...so cameras didn't pick him up. He went somewhere else and was killed or accidentally died and the perps are either professionals or very lucky party-ers that they happened to choose some remote dumping spot that hasn't been searched. (I still picture only one or two people. A group would be less likely to stay silent all this time.)

Could he have pre planned the whole thing to abandon everyone for a tropical island? I think he was smart enough to make a go of that if he really was bound and determined to do so. But the fact he went missing after a long night of drinking doesn't suggest to me he was following some careful plot to disappear. I wish. But I think he got out of the building and died by accident on his way home or at a place he went to with a small group of others.

The problem, which picks up on one of the posters' comments above, is once he gets into the car, his body could've been hidden even out of state.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You know, I have always assumed that Brian was intoxicated. But... I remember seeing the grainy escalator video and his posture, positioning and movement telling me something totally different. He did not appear to be even slightly drunk. Maybe I am not getting it right, but to me, it did not appear he had too many drinks that night.

I think you really needed to try hard to evade the cameras, so that's just telling me Brian went at least to some effort not to be seen leaving. I don't know, i really don't think his disappearance has anything to do with drug or some kind of drug deal that went wrong. I believe the natural tendency to assume that had engaged in something dangerous but based on everything we know about Brian it just doesn't make sense.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Brainy]

Also, one doesn't need a careful plot to disappear. There have been people who have disappeared from strange places only to be found alive somewhere else. A man (don't remember his name) during the 80's went to his job and then called his wife that we was going to see some of his buddies after work. Well, he never returned home and he was presumed dead for many years. Everything was untounched... his belongings, his money.. He just basically walked out of his life with no warning. I mean, there is no evidence to suggest that Brian is not alive. Some of the facts may lead us to have certain inclinations but they are not based on anything factual. It's the of odds, the chances, the likelihood...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 155000]

You know, I have always assumed that Brian was intoxicated. But... I remember seeing the grainy escalator video and his posture, positioning and movement telling me something totally different. He did not appear to be even slightly drunk. Maybe I am not getting it right, but to me, it did not appear he had too many drinks that night.

I think you really needed to try hard to evade the cameras, so that's just telling me Brian went at least to some effort not to be seen leaving. I don't know, i really don't think his disappearance has anything to do with drug or some kind of drug deal that went wrong. I believe the natural tendency to assume that had engaged in something dangerous but based on everything we know about Brian it just doesn't make sense.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I actually thought this originally and discussed it earlier in the thread--how he doesn't seem to be completely inebriated to me. But witness reports referenced by police and family suggested the guys had drank plenty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MatthewTyler]

You know, I have always assumed that Brian was intoxicated. But... I remember seeing the grainy escalator video and his posture, positioning and movement telling me something totally different. He did not appear to be even slightly drunk. Maybe I am not getting it right, but to me, it did not appear he had too many drinks that night.

Brian and Clint Started the night off around 9:30. I don't know how much they drank that night, but Clint said in an interview they had a couple of shots at least at each place. So assuming they each had about 8-10 shots by the time they returned to Ugly Tuna at 1:15, they would be decently drunk. However, this was about a 4 hour period, and they obviously didn't take all the shots back-to-back since they had some time in between each location. If you also factor in Brian's build plus a steak dinner he had to absorb some alcohol, I don't really think he should have been blackout drunk at all. Although he could have had more drinks than what I'm guessing, but judging by the security footage he definitely didn't seem stupid drunk. Leaning on the escalator means nothing as I often do that too when I'm completely sober.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Also, one doesn't need a careful plot to disappear. There have been people who have disappeared from strange places only to be found alive somewhere else. A man (don't remember his name) during the 80's went to his job and then called his wife that we was going to see some of his buddies after work. Well, he never returned home and he was presumed dead for many years. Everything was untounched... his belongings, his money.. He just basically walked out of his life with no warning. I mean, there is no evidence to suggest that Brian is not alive. Some of the facts may lead us to have certain inclinations but they are not based on anything factual. It's the of odds, the chances, the likelihood...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree that without blood or a body, there is no physical/DNA-based reason to believe he wasn't alive. But there is plenty of reason to believe he isn't--starring with 10+ years of being missing plus never touching his bank account or credit cards again. I readily agree with you that there have been a few cases of people who impulsively decided to disappear. Most turn up far before Brian did. And these are the exceptions not the rule.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it's more likely he met with accident or assault and died, yet to be discovered.

If someone like Clint, or someone else, knows some details about Brian's next steps, I wish they would at least call in an anonymous name or location for police to investigate in search of other clues that might further fill in the timeline.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MatthewTyler]

Also, one doesn't need a careful plot to disappear. There have been people who have disappeared from strange places only to be found alive somewhere else. A man (don't remember his name) during the 80's went to his job and then called his wife that we was going to see some of his buddies after work. Well, he never returned home and he was presumed dead for many years. Everything was untounched... his belongings, his money.. He just basically walked out of his life with no warning. I mean, there is no evidence to suggest that Brian is not alive. Some of the facts may lead us to have certain inclinations but they are not based on anything factual. It's the of odds, the chances, the likelihood...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't doubt that Brian would have the motives and desire to escape at all, it's just the logistics and actual measures he'd have to take. He wouldn't be able to fly anywhere with his face being shown around and his name and info would be needed so it would be very easy to track him if he tried to fly. The only possible way is bus, train or hitchhike. Setting up a new bank account and getting a new phone would be a lot more possible I'd think, but I don't see how he can live a normal life starting over. He'd have no social security, no IDs, etc. It was easier to disappear back in the day (like the guy in the 80's you mentioned) because there was less social media and less ways to get your picture shown around. There also wasn't as much tracking because there were no cell phones or computers.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Brian and Clint Started the night off around 9:30. I don't know how much they drank that night, but Clint said in an interview they had a couple of shots at least at each place. So assuming they each had about 8-10 shots by the time they returned to Ugly Tuna at 1:15, they would be decently drunk. However, this was about a 4 hour period, and they obviously didn't take all the shots back-to-back since they had some time in between each location. If you also factor in Brian's build plus a steak dinner he had to absorb some alcohol, I don't really think he should have been blackout drunk at all. Although he could have had more drinks than what I'm guessing, but judging by the security footage he definitely didn't seem stupid drunk. Leaning on the escalator means nothing as I often do that too when I'm completely sober.

Agreed. In fact, the leaning on the escalator part makes me think he wasn't blackout drunk as he was able to move off a moving surface so easily. But he drank enough for his senses to be impaired, especially if he became more fatigued as the night wore on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[snowleopard]

Good conversation. I was just reading this (again) and thought it was a good reference for those who hadn't yet. I found pages 16,22 and 23 particularly good for fact-checking.

http://www.magcloud.com/webviewer/900141?__r=563315&s=w

 

[moslym3]

While this video came out two years after Brian disappeared, it's very instructive as to why someone close to a crime might refuse a polygraph and lawyer up immediately -- and why they would ask for immunity as a condition to conduct an interview with investigators. I think Clint's behavior is conservative and reasonable -- lucky him for having pro-active and savvy parents (or other advisers) to suggest this route.

If you haven't seen it, it's worth the 30 minutes: Don't talk to the cops.

I tend to agree with those that posit that he slipped out the back with either an employee or band member for some after-partying or to score drugs at the start of spring break. Things went wrong from there.

A complicating factor is that with businesses and construction going on all over, there are plenty of dumpsters, construction trucks, linen and recycling pickups etc. If he didn't get into a car he could have just walked a block or two away, ran into trouble over there, and ended up in a dumpster somewhere that was hauled away the next morning.

If they searched landfills after his disappearance, I wonder if they also searched the dumping areas of construction dumpsters -- do they go right into wood chippers? Incinerators? Composters? Or do they put them on a pile like garbage that is collected?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

While this video came out two years after Brian disappeared, it's very instructive as to why someone close to a crime might refuse a polygraph and lawyer up immediately -- and why they would ask for immunity as a condition to conduct an interview with investigators. I think Clint's behavior is conservative and reasonable -- lucky him for having pro-active and savvy parents (or other advisers) to suggest this route.

If you haven't seen it, it's worth the 30 minutes: Don't talk to the cops.

I tend to agree with those that posit that he slipped out the back with either an employee or band member for some after-partying or to score drugs at the start of spring break. Things went wrong from there.

A complicating factor is that with businesses and construction going on all over, there are plenty of dumpsters, construction trucks, linen and recycling pickups etc. If he didn't get into a car he could have just walked a block or two away, ran into trouble over there, and ended up in a dumpster somewhere that was hauled away the next morning.

If they searched landfills after his disappearance, I wonder if they also searched the dumping areas of construction dumpsters -- do they go right into wood chippers? Incinerators? Composters? Or do they put them on a pile like garbage that is collected?

Thanks for that. I do think if Clint is not guilty, then conservative is a good word to describe Clint's behavior. I definitely know a few families would insist their kids consult lawyers and take precautions like these, even if innocent. But if he knows anything that could've contributed to the investigation, pointed police toward justice or answers for Brian's family, I can only understand his reasoning...I can't respect it. Matters of human loss take priority over everything else in my book.

We think similarly in terms of likely scenarios. I know dumpsters near the restaurant were reportedly searched Monday and Tuesday, but I never saw if those dumpsters were scheduled to be emptied or processed prior to that.

I don't see Brian as likely ending up in a dumpster either way. I'd guess, if disposed of, his remains will be uncovered in water or a field/wooded area. But like many things in this case, there's only enough evidence to weigh what is likely...there's not enough to rule out any possibility including the dumpster one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[itsallaboutthequeen]

I think you really needed to try hard to evade the cameras, so that's just telling me Brian went at least to some effort not to be seen leaving. I don't know, i really don't think his disappearance has anything to do with drug or some kind of drug deal that went wrong. I believe the natural tendency to assume that had engaged in something dangerous.

This is the thing that makes me positive he was doing something illegal(and the fact that no one wants to talk or get involved) just because someone appears straightlaced and upstanding doesn't mean they necessarily are.

Drugs are just very common in Ohio and are almost considered an epidemic of sorts.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

This is the thing that makes me positive he was doing something illegal(and the fact that no one wants to talk or get involved) just because someone appears straightlaced and upstanding doesn't mean they necessarily are.

Drugs are just very common in Ohio and are almost considered an epidemic of sorts.

Drugs are always a possibility, no matter the location. And yes, straight-laced people are sometimes hiding other habits. Those who spent a lot of time with Brian seemed to consider several possibilities: foul play or restarting life elsewhere were chief among them.

As an outsider looking in 10+ years later, I don't want to place my speculation above the testimony of those who spent a lot of time with him.

I don't rule out anything including drug involvement, as I have said before, but I try to focus on what seems most likely. He was at the top of his class. The people who knew him offered various doubts, but no one reported witnessing any red flags related to substance use.

One article written by a reporter who interviewed Hurst, a detective assigned to the case, suggested there were 3 possibilities being examined: suicide, foul play, and starting life over.

Still, it might be interesting to know whether Brian's medical program required students to have periodic drug screens. Anyone know?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[John.121]

My problem with the drugs angle is like the Jason Jolkowski case in that well, why would he be killed? And also how would his body not have been discovered by now? In order for him to have been made to disappear with such sophistication he would have had to be someone important or someone involved pretty deep which i just don't see. People say that maybe he was shot dead for witnessing a drug deal or something.How often does this happen? I have never in my life known an instance where street dealers have shot someone dead and disposed of them simply for witnessing a drug deal. He would have had to have been involved in some sort of bigger beef or problem to be eliminated in that way. Or possibly a direct confrontation/fight that led to him being killed..stabbed/shot/etc

Also, if he was killed by a street gang or a low level dealer someone would know someone who knows someone involved and would have spoken by now, if for no other reason than to claim the reward money that was out there for information on Brian's disappearance. His case is pretty well known about. Hell there are dealers that will rat out their lifelong friend to the police in order to get a couple less years on their jail sentence. Imo more likely if it's drugs it's the prescription drugs/misuse of the drugs within the medical field thing that has been suggested. Something directly related to his and Clint's career.

 

[John.121]

I don't doubt that Brian would have the motives and desire to escape at all, it's just the logistics and actual measures he'd have to take. He wouldn't be able to fly anywhere with his face being shown around and his name and info would be needed so it would be very easy to track him if he tried to fly. The only possible way is bus, train or hitchhike. Setting up a new bank account and getting a new phone would be a lot more possible I'd think, but I don't see how he can live a normal life starting over. He'd have no social security, no IDs, etc. It was easier to disappear back in the day (like the guy in the 80's you mentioned) because there was less social media and less ways to get your picture shown around. There also wasn't as much tracking because there were no cell phones or computers.

I've always wondered about the social security thing. I read a few other places that if they just checked whether his social security number had been used they'd know whether he's likely to be alive or not. Is it that simple for them to just run a check like that? You'd think they'd have done it by now if so?