OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[Ozoner]

But wait, you left out the first theory I mentioned , which is him exiting the building and something happening to him after. I don’t know what, could have been... a mugging turned violent, a run in with the wrong persons, bad drugs or drugs combined with a lot of alcohol, a drug deal gone wrong, a pick up / date with someone who turns out to be a a psycho who targets guys like him..... If he did make it out of the area we don’t know where he headed after that. Did he walk, was he picked up or did he get a ride, did he make it home and something happened there? ... there are several possibilities.

Yes, I would like to find out he had left on his own and is alive and happy somewhere, but I also realize it’s not as likely as something happening to him and he is no longer with us.

According to the detective his scent was tracked to an area outside of the UT building, the Wendy’s parking lot wasn’t it? If so can we more or less safely assume he did make it out at least to that point? Actually, I’m quite curious about this and wonder if you all could weigh in on this, I.e., do you believe this information is credible? And if not why not. TIA.

The detective expressed doubts about whether the scent trail was Brian's, but it's possible.

One problem with Brian having made it out of the construction area is that calls to his phone were going unanswered very quickly after he disappeared. At the time his friends were trying to call him, he probably wouldn't have had time to make it all the way across the fairly dug up construction area. It's possible he simply wasn't getting a signal inside that building, but in 2006, his carrier was probably using a 2G signal, and 2G signals have good penetration into buildings. Chances are that something happened to Brian within minutes of his having been seen on camera talking to the girls.

There is another problem with any scenario in which he was the victim of a random crime: killers rarely bother to conceal a body unless they have a close connection to the victim. It would be highly unusual for a street thµg to rob and murder Brian and then hide the body. Victims of random crime are almost always found very quickly.

I think any kind of planned date would have shown up in Brian's electronic history

I can't completely rule out the possibility that Brian exited the building and then died, but the odds are not great. All indications are that Brian probably entered the construction area accidentally. I believe that he probably tried to follow the band but went through the wrong door or exited the elevator from the wrong side. (Many elevators have doors that open on both sides.) To go with left-but-then-victimized scenario, you'd have to believe that a one-hundred-to-one-shot (his accidentally ending up in the construction area) was followed immediately by a one-thousand-to-one-shot (his being murdered) without there being any apparent causal relationship between the two events. That would be like winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning on the same night.

Bear this in mind: The cops have repeatedly dodged any and all questions about exactly when the building was searched and whether any concrete work (etc.) was done after Brian vanished but before they searched for him. Now why do you think that might be?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I don't think it's worth arguing, but I don't at all think all indications point to a construction area death, nor do I believe that cops assigned to the case avoided the questions about the construction site or presence of concrete at the time. It's possible cops on the beat today don't know the details though.

I agree a construction death is a possibility, but it's not high on the list in terms of probability in my opinion. Unless the staff found him and purposefully covered it up to conceal liability before they brought the cadaver dogs in.

If you scroll back through all 3 threads, you'll find multiple links that I and others referenced that address police findings and methodology at the time.

The detective expressed doubts about whether the scent trail was Brian's, but it's possible.

One problem with Brian having made it out of the construction area is that calls to his phone were going unanswered very quickly after he disappeared. At the time his friends were trying to call him, he probably wouldn't have had time to make it all the way across the fairly dug up construction area. It's possible he simply wasn't getting a signal inside that building, but in 2006, his carrier was probably using a 2G signal, and 2G signals have good penetration into buildings. Chances are that something happened to Brian within minutes of his having been seen on camera talking to the girls.

There is another problem with any scenario in which he was the victim of a random crime: killers rarely bother to conceal a body unless they have a close connection to the victim. It would be highly unusual for a street thµg to rob and murder Brian and then hide the body. Victims of random crime are almost always found very quickly.

I think any kind of planned date would have shown up in Brian's electronic history

I can't completely rule out the possibility that Brian exited the building and then died, but the odds are not great. All indications are that Brian probably entered the construction area accidentally. I believe that he probably tried to follow the band but went through the wrong door or exited the elevator from the wrong side. (Many elevators have doors that open on both sides.) To go with left-but-then-victimized scenario, you'd have to believe that a one-hundred-to-one-shot (his accidentally ending up in the construction area) was followed immediately by a one-thousand-to-one-shot (his being murdered) without there being any apparent causal relationship between the two events. That would be like winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning on the same night.

Bear this in mind: The cops have repeatedly dodged any and all questions about exactly when the building was searched and whether any concrete work (etc.) was done after Brian vanished but before they searched for him. Now why do you think that might be?

 

[CARIIS]

The detective expressed doubts about whether the scent trail was Brian's, but it's possible.

One problem with Brian having made it out of the construction area is that calls to his phone were going unanswered very quickly after he disappeared. At the time his friends were trying to call him, he probably wouldn't have had time to make it all the way across the fairly dug up construction area. It's possible he simply wasn't getting a signal inside that building, but in 2006, his carrier was probably using a 2G signal, and 2G signals have good penetration into buildings. Chances are that something happened to Brian within minutes of his having been seen on camera talking to the girls.

There is another problem with any scenario in which he was the victim of a random crime: killers rarely bother to conceal a body unless they have a close connection to the victim. It would be highly unusual for a street thµg to rob and murder Brian and then hide the body. Victims of random crime are almost always found very quickly.

I think any kind of planned date would have shown up in Brian's electronic history

I can't completely rule out the possibility that Brian exited the building and then died, but the odds are not great. All indications are that Brian probably entered the construction area accidentally. I believe that he probably tried to follow the band but went through the wrong door or exited the elevator from the wrong side. (Many elevators have doors that open on both sides.) To go with left-but-then-victimized scenario, you'd have to believe that a one-hundred-to-one-shot (his accidentally ending up in the construction area) was followed immediately by a one-thousand-to-one-shot (his being murdered) without there being any apparent causal relationship between the two events. That would be like winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning on the same night.

Bear this in mind: The cops have repeatedly dodged any and all questions about exactly when the building was searched and whether any concrete work (etc.) was done after Brian vanished but before they searched for him. Now why do you think that might be?

the same as the cops stating they accounted for everyone while on the other side of their mouth acknowledging that the camera moves ( there is no way on earth a moving camera does not have blind spots - it actually a logical impossibility )

how an investigation does not talk to the last two people that saw the person alive is mind boggling imo

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think it's worth arguing, but I don't at all think all indications point to a construction area death, nor do I believe that cops assigned to the case avoided the questions about the construction site or presence of concrete at the time. It's possible cops on the beat today don't know the details though.

I agree a construction death is a possibility, but it's not high on the list in terms of probability in my opinion. Unless the staff found him and purposefully covered it up to conceal liability before they brought the cadaver dogs in.

If you scroll back through all 3 threads, you'll find multiple links that I and others referenced that address police findings and methodology at the time.

has anyone ever heard of people claiming that dogs are useless in situations like this -- my understanding was that our black nosed furry friends were awesome!!

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Oh I see why you think this. I'd definitely take some time to review the entire 3 threads so you can brief yourself on the police work at the time. They definitely did note the possibility of the moving camera creating a blind spot (I first heard this in their interview!), but said that the footage itself accounted for the exit of every other person that entered. And also, they did talk to the last two people who saw Brian. Both of those items are referenced in the previous threads.

the same as the cops stating they accounted for everyone while on the other side of their mouth acknowledging that the camera moves ( there is no way on earth a moving camera does not have blind spots - it actually a logical impossibility )

how an investigation does not talk to the last two people that saw the person alive is mind boggling imo

the same as the cops stating they accounted for everyone while on the other side of their mouth acknowledging that the camera moves ( there is no way on earth a moving camera does not have blind spots - it actually a logical impossibility )

how an investigation does not talk to the last two people that saw the person alive is mind boggling imo

 

[Zoomy]

Hi, this is my first post on this case. I only heard about it for the first time in April (I live in the UK). I think he was intent on getting lucky that night. His girlfriend was away for the weekend, if it is true he was planning to propose, maybe he thought that weekend was his last chance to have a bit of fun as 'a single man' so to speak. I recently read a reply on a you tube video on this case, and a girl left a reply saying that she was one of the women that Brian was speaking to outside the bar, and he had offered to walk them to their car. She has not said much more than that, but I am assuming they refused. I also noticed on the CCTV one of the women appears to point down the escalator, possibly, as if to say our car is just outside, meaning there is no need for him to walk with them. This leads me to think, did he then try to follow them out, but left by a different exit, as he didn't want to be seen by the other men and security, following them, if they had refused his offer. Maybe he thought if he caught up with them and persisted, they would give in and maybe offer him a lift. This could possibly tie in with his scent being found in the Wendy's car park, if this is where their car was parked.

So I have now just re-read the comment from the youtube video by Bella Fiore, which was difficult to find as over 1000 comments and I did actually wonder if I had imagined it! After re-reading, I am thinking maybe I am wrong, and he was just being chivalrous in offering to walk the women to their car, or had second thoughts and decided he did not want to go home with them. I did also wonder if this person was actually one of the women, or making it up, but she has posted a video of a close up of her face (which is a bit odd and juvenile) and I do think she bares a resemblance to the woman in the CCTV. So this it, (she is replying to the following comment):

He wasn't flirting, I've been watching the footage and the two women in the surveillance were actually arguing, you can see one woman push the other and walk away. It looks like he stepped in to try and cool them down, after he's done what he needs to he waves goodbye and heads back into the bar.

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REPLY



Brightan Zatko1 year ago
Cayruh I am one of the girls in the video. We were not arguing lol. We were very drunk and we had only met him that evening. He was going to walk us out to our car. He ended up not and going back in the bar.

 

[neesaki]

Oh I see why you think this. I'd definitely take some time to review the entire 3 threads so you can brief yourself on the police work at the time. They definitely did note the possibility of the moving camera creating a blind spot (I first heard this in their interview!), but said that the footage itself accounted for the exit of every other person that entered. And also, they did talk to the last two people who saw Brian. Both of those items are referenced in the previous threads.

LE did interview the last two people but thereafter these people lawyered up and refused to talk to LE after that point. I think that’s what a Cariis is talking about, please correct me if I’m wrong, Cariis. We at least know that Clint did, I think Meredith IIRC did so shortly thereafter.

Not exactly what I would call cooperative, IMO. I think we needed a Columbo or a Monk.

 

[Ozoner]

If you scroll back through all 3 threads, you'll find multiple links that I and others referenced that address police findings and methodology at the time.

I've already read all three threads.

The methodology used is irrelevant if they didn't search the construction site until after concrete had been poured (or until after heating and cooling systems had been installed, etc.).

As for whether LE has dodged questions about whether any concrete was poured between the time Brian disappeared and the time the construction site was searched, the person who has neglected to answer those questions is the detective who was in charge of the investigation back in '06, not some random beat cop.

I take his silence as tacit confirmation that concrete was poured (or other major work done) after Brian vanished but before the building was searched.

 

[CARIIS]

I've already read all three threads.

The methodology used is irrelevant if they didn't search the construction site until after concrete had been poured (or until after heating and cooling systems had been installed, etc.).

As for whether LE has dodged questions about whether any concrete was poured between the time Brian disappeared and the time the construction site was searched, the person who has neglected to answer those questions is the detective who was in charge of the investigation back in '06, not some random beat cop.

I take his silence as tacit confirmation that concrete was poured (or other major work done) after Brian vanished but before the building was searched.

so they did not search instantly and there is a door right to it?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Hmmm. Maybe we're talking about a different detective? The couple police officers I am referencing are the ones mentioned in several articles and interviews repeatedly cited in the news at the time and referenced in these threads multiple times. These detectives assigned to the case indicated they DID take cadaver dogs in while the construction was still in a stage where a body could not have been concealed.

But I do understand how coming into the case this many years later could be confusing and hard to sort out for those not following it at the time it occurred, especially since many news articles from that time are no longer live at this point. I'm glad you're committed to exploring all theories regardless.

I've already read all three threads.

The methodology used is irrelevant if they didn't search the construction site until after concrete had been poured (or until after heating and cooling systems had been installed, etc.).

As for whether LE has dodged questions about whether any concrete was poured between the time Brian disappeared and the time the construction site was searched, the person who has neglected to answer those questions is the detective who was in charge of the investigation back in '06, not some random beat cop.

I take his silence as tacit confirmation that concrete was poured (or other major work done) after Brian vanished but before the building was searched.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Just a few suggestions for anyone who does want to brush up.

Some time when you have the chance you could go to the Columbus Public Library and check the microfiche archives of the Columbus Dispatch and other Columbus-based publications to read the original coverage. You can also find some of it online through Google searching and then looking for cached versions of old webpages that have been taken down or articles copied and pasted into discussion forums.

I looked up a few of the details to help you search out the original articles. The names of the officers originally assigned to the case, for instance, were Andre Edwards, John Hurst, and Antone Lanata. The private investigator who worked with the family was Don Corbett.

The police conducted cadaver searches of the Ugly Tuna building on several occasions. They checked the construction area which was dug up and the cadaver dogs did not hit on it. Outside the building, the dogs hit on a scent that led toward Wendy's, but despite checking cameras along the trail the dogs tracked, they were not able to find video evidence to confirm Brian leaving that direction. Officers checked footage from multiple cameras inside or on the building, however, and were able to view the band leaving (without any sight of Brian). And although no staff reported seeing anyone use the back fire exit, the camera on that exit--near the trash area, had been on an override setting so if anyone exited there, it would not have been recorded.

Officers took several months selecting people who appeared on the video footage from the building, and tracking their movements to verify each person exited. The only person they could not confirm how he exited was Brian, but they acknowledged a panning camera could have created a blind spot. They interviewed over 100 people and had over 50 officers involved in searching the area. At one point, a homeless man claimed he saw Brian and months later, Brian's phone rang and the phone pinged in Hilliard, but it was thought that this could just be a glitch caused by the network being busy (rather than his phone being active again).

The officers interviewed Clint (real name William) Florence, Meredith Reed, Brightan Zatko and Amber Ruic who were at the bar that evening. Meredith took a polygraph, Clint refused one, and Brightan and Amber were not asked to take one as the investigation eliminated the possibility of their further involvement. The phone activity of those involved seemed to confirm their stories. I believe they even checked Meredith's credit card bills from that evening.

Police also interviewed Randy Shaffer (father) and polygraphed him. They interviewed Derek Shaffer (brother) and verified Derek's presence with a group of people at another venue in the city late that night. And they interviewed Alexis Waggoner (girlfriend at the time) who was easily confirmed to be a couple hours away with family for the weekend.

Hope this helps!

 

[Ozoner]

I looked up a few of the details to help you search out the original articles. The names of the officers originally assigned to the case, for instance, were Andre Edwards, John Hurst, and Antone Lanata. The private investigator who worked with the family was Don Corbett.

The police conducted cadaver searches of the Ugly Tuna building on several occasions. They checked the construction area which was dug up and the cadaver dogs did not hit on it. Outside the building, the dogs hit on a scent that led toward Wendy's, but despite checking cameras along the trail the dogs tracked, they were not able to find video evidence to confirm Brian leaving that direction. Officers checked footage from multiple cameras inside or on the building, however, and were able to view the band leaving (without any sight of Brian). And although no staff reported seeing anyone use the back fire exit, the camera on that exit--near the trash area, had been on an override setting so if anyone exited there, it would not have been recorded.

Officers took several months selecting people who appeared on the video footage from the building, and tracking their movements to verify each person exited. The only person they could not confirm how he exited was Brian, but they acknowledged a panning camera could have created a blind spot. They interviewed over 100 people and had over 50 officers involved in searching the area. At one point, a homeless man claimed he saw Brian and months later, Brian's phone rang and the phone pinged in Hilliard, but it was thought that this could just be a glitch caused by the network being busy (rather than his phone being active again).

Hope this helps!

Snipped.

Detective Hurst is the one to whom I was referring.

At no time has he ever stated publicly on what dates the searches of the construction site occurred.

At no time has he ever provided a timeline showing what work was done at the construction site on the days following Brian's disappearance.

The flaw in your logic is that you're willing to take the cops' word for it that Brian's body could not have been concealed. I'm not willing to take their word for that.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

My own understanding is based on multiple interviews with multiple parties, including both police officers and Brian's family/girlfriend who were present during some of the police work and spoke highly of officers' relentless dedication to the case.

Brian was last seen on the wee hours of April 1st. Police released the information to the media on April 3. By April 4, they were already showing the family enlarged freeze frames from the security footage to see if anyone could identify Brian. Given many missing persons' cases, where disappearances aren't even officially registered until 48 hours later, this was a very prompt police response.

Police's initial search from top to the bottom, as described by officers, included every nook and cranny of Ugly Tuna. They marked areas related to all exit paths to be searched by cadaver dogs to see if a body had ever been in any of them. The family was allowed to bring in private search dogs on two days, one German Shepherd and a team of 4 other dogs. The police also took dogs through and around the building, including the campus grounds and riverside in days to come. Texas Equu search was given access to the building. In the months to come when he did not turn up, they brought in dogs additional times--one of which was in September--which, to me and to Brian's family interviewed at the time, showed their remarkable dedication.

At no point did dogs hit in the construction site.

I'm certainly not saying there's no chance Brian's body could be in the building. We definitely have seen a few exceptional cases like that in the media. I'm just saying given the quick response and extensiveness of the searches by multiple parties, it makes more sense--in my opinion--to focus on exploring more likely avenues.

I think the most likely explanation is Brian went over the balcony or out the fire exit or squeezed through the construction site to the exit...and met his demise, perhaps accidentally and perhaps, in part, due to being inebriated.

Snipped.

Detective Hurst is the one to whom I was referring.

At no time has he ever stated publicly on what dates the searches of the construction site occurred.

At no time has he ever provided a timeline showing what work was done at the construction site on the days following Brian's disappearance.

The flaw in your logic is that you're willing to take the cops' word for it that Brian's body could not have been concealed. I'm not willing to take their word for that.

 

[itsrak]

I think the most likely explanation is Brian went over the balcony or out the fire exit or squeezed through the construction site to the exit...and met his demise, perhaps accidentally and perhaps, in part, due to being inebriated.

So what you are suggesting is that you believe it is more likely that the lone individual of hundreds who entered the building that evening via stairs and/or adjacent escalator and went up to the second floor (UTS and theatre) who seems not to have exited the building by the same means, AND who also happens to be the individual who went missing at right around 2am in the building and was never seen or heard from again from that moment on, did exit the building? Right? So then you must think there is no linkage between his seeming failure to exit the building and his permanent disappearance, right? You think the two elements are unrelated? There is no solid evidence that Brian exited the building, but you still think he did?

I hold a different opinion. I think it is likely that the apparent failure of that lone individual to leave the building is DIRECTLY LINKED to his disappearance. I think it is likely that the 2am permanent disappearance and the apparent failure to exit the building are linked. Causally linked. I think that Brian's failure to exit the building the conventional way is very likely a causative factor in his disappearance. When one holds that view, and then learns that within mere feet of where Brian was last seen is a construction area deemed a) possible to enter b) difficult to navigate, even sober c) completely dug up, well, OMG. And when one learns that the lead detective on the case suggests that Brian entered that construction area....

People can search the world over and posit all kinds of possible situations. Me, I don't think he left the building, and searchers simply missed his remains. I'd like to see the owner of the building, OSU, along with LE, take a crack at utilizing the latest in technology in an effort to find Brian's remains in - and most likely under - its property.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I appreciate your opinions. And the other viewpoints that are shared here too. I only put out this other info bc I know this case is 12+ years old now and some of the information that came out at the beginning, and along the way, may be difficult to find now. I have no doubt even those details will still lead people to different conclusions than I have reached, which is a plus in my mind. The more informed we are, the more we can refine and improve our theories together!

Just as an FYI, I do share a portion of the logic you’ve presented. I agree, for ex, that it’s not logical to think 2 separate, unrelated disappearances occurred that night (I.e. first Brian disappeared from camera and then later, seemingly, from the planet).

I do think the 2 events were related. I think Brian may have purposefully chose to leave on the down low and that, whatever caused him to choose an evasive exit, is likely responsible for his death as well.

For example, here’s a theory that I don’t believe, but would work: Brian may have come into conflict with someone in the bar—a friend, a stranger, security, an inebriated person. He may have left secretly to avoid further contact, but that person later followed him or tracked him down elsewhere. They got in a fight and he was somehow killed. The person then disposed of his body.

Another possibility is Brian snuck out to meet a girl—again, not my theory of choice. Perhaps he angered the girl’s boyfriend and similar problems ensued.

A third idea could be that he snuck out to use or acquire recreational drugs—pot, for instance. Something went wrong. Either the seller double crossed him or the drugs were laced with something or he OD’d bc of too much alcohol in his system. Someone panicked and disposed of his body to avoid implication. I give weight to this possibility, but it’s still not my best guess.

Finally, I’ll leave you with a couple possibilities that seem more likely to me. Maybe Brian left to go to an informal “house party”—a late night hangout at another location that he didn’t want to take Clint or Meredith to. And something happened there, intentional or accidental. Or, Brian simply was drained and didnt want to continue hanging out with Clint and Meredith so he headed home and met an accidental death along the way, possibly due to being inebriated.

So what you are suggesting is that you believe it is more likely that the lone individual of hundreds who entered the building that evening via stairs and/or adjacent escalator and went up to the second floor (UTS and theatre) who seems not to have exited the building by the same means, AND who also happens to be the individual who went missing at right around 2am in the building and was never seen or heard from again from that moment on, did exit the building? Right? So then you must think there is no linkage between his seeming failure to exit the building and his permanent disappearance, right? You think the two elements are unrelated? There is no solid evidence that Brian exited the building, but you still think he did?

I hold a different opinion. I think it is likely that the apparent failure of that lone individual to leave the building is DIRECTLY LINKED to his disappearance. I think it is likely that the 2am permanent disappearance and the apparent failure to exit the building are linked. Causally linked. I think that Brian's failure to exit the building the conventional way is very likely a causative factor in his disappearance. When one holds that view, and then learns that within mere feet of where Brian was last seen is a construction area deemed a) possible to enter b) difficult to navigate, even sober c) completely dug up, well, OMG. And when one learns that the lead detective on the case suggests that Brian entered that construction area....

People can search the world over and posit all kinds of possible situations. Me, I'd like to see the owner of the building, OSU, along with LE, take a crack at utilizing the latest in technology in an effort to find Brian's remains in or under its property.

 

[Ozoner]

Finally, I’ll leave you with a couple possibilities that seem more likely to me. Maybe Brian left to go to an informal “house party”—a late night hangout at another location that he didn’t want to take Clint or Meredith to. And something happened there, intentional or accidental. Or, Brian simply was drained and didn't want to continue hanging out with Clint and Meredith so he headed home and met an accidental death along the way, possibly due to being inebriated.

But there would have been no reason for Brian to have exited the building in an unconventional manner in order to go to a house party, especially since no other person exited in an unconventional manner.

It is thought that Brian was going to attempt to speak to the band members, who were in the process of leaving.

For argument's sake, let's say that Brian did enter the construction site accidentally after attempting to follow the band but going the wrong way. If that part of the scenario is true, then what do you think happened to Brian after that? Why do you think calls to his phone were going unanswered so quickly (certainly less than ten minutes after he was last seen)?

 

[CARIIS]

My own understanding is based on multiple interviews with multiple parties, including both police officers and Brian's family/girlfriend who were present during some of the police work and spoke highly of officers' relentless dedication to the case.

Brian was last seen on the wee hours of April 1st. Police released the information to the media on April 3. By April 4, they were already showing the family enlarged freeze frames from the security footage to see if anyone could identify Brian. Given many missing persons' cases, where disappearances aren't even officially registered until 48 hours later, this was a very prompt police response.

Police's initial search from top to the bottom, as described by officers, included every nook and cranny of Ugly Tuna. They marked areas related to all exit paths to be searched by cadaver dogs to see if a body had ever been in any of them. The family was allowed to bring in private search dogs on two days, one German Shepherd and a team of 4 other dogs. The police also took dogs through and around the building, including the campus grounds and riverside in days to come. Texas Equu search was given access to the building. In the months to come when he did not turn up, they brought in dogs additional times--one of which was in September--which, to me and to Brian's family interviewed at the time, showed their remarkable dedication.

At no point did dogs hit in the construction site.

I'm certainly not saying there's no chance Brian's body could be in the building. We definitely have seen a few exceptional cases like that in the media. I'm just saying given the quick response and extensiveness of the searches by multiple parties, it makes more sense--in my opinion--to focus on exploring more likely avenues.

I think the most likely explanation is Brian went over the balcony or out the fire exit or squeezed through the construction site to the exit...and met his demise, perhaps accidentally and perhaps, in part, due to being inebriated.

showing the family enlarged freeze frames from the security footage to see

that is my point -- the video is the pitts !! Needing to ask family if that shady dark fuzz on the camera might be their kid does NOT correspond with being able to declare that everyone in and everyone out

 

[CARIIS]

So what you are suggesting is that you believe it is more likely that the lone individual of hundreds who entered the building that evening via stairs and/or adjacent escalator and went up to the second floor (UTS and theatre) who seems not to have exited the building by the same means, AND who also happens to be the individual who went missing at right around 2am in the building and was never seen or heard from again from that moment on, did exit the building? Right? So then you must think there is no linkage between his seeming failure to exit the building and his permanent disappearance, right? You think the two elements are unrelated? There is no solid evidence that Brian exited the building, but you still think he did?

I hold a different opinion. I think it is likely that the apparent failure of that lone individual to leave the building is DIRECTLY LINKED to his disappearance. I think it is likely that the 2am permanent disappearance and the apparent failure to exit the building are linked. Causally linked. I think that Brian's failure to exit the building the conventional way is very likely a causative factor in his disappearance. When one holds that view, and then learns that within mere feet of where Brian was last seen is a construction area deemed a) possible to enter b) difficult to navigate, even sober c) completely dug up, well, OMG. And when one learns that the lead detective on the case suggests that Brian entered that construction area....

People can search the world over and posit all kinds of possible situations. Me, I don't think he left the building, and searchers simply missed his remains. I'd like to see the owner of the building, OSU, along with LE, take a crack at utilizing the latest in technology in an effort to find Brian's remains in - and most likely under - its property.

i have found your and then dynamic interesting. There is not a thread here that does not have a and then dynamic ( which imo does not mean those and then did not happen!)

Joey

was at bar and then was not at bar and then phone did weird stuff and then ended up missing and then was not found and then was found etcetc

Zachery went out for a smoke and then could not get in and then texted and then they did not respond and then

paddock bought up tons of machine guns and then locked his doors and then Jesus and then

the kids in the cave went into the cave and then it rained and then they and then

the and thens are not a rule in or rule out they are what makes them news it is identical to an aviation crash sequence the and thens are totally what happens it is imo how it works

and thens do not mean the and thens did not happen it makes the and thens the interesting part if that makes sense!

it just seems like some are doing the and thens as meaning they did not happen

when in fact they explain stuff in their own way

moo

 

[CARIIS]

h

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I hear you, but I am suggesting there WAS a reason for Brian to leave the building for an unconventional reason, but we just don’t know what it was. It could’ve been to avoid a conflict, to buy drugs, to meet a girl he shouldn’t be publicly seen with, to ditch Clint before he went to another party and so on.

It’s possible at the end of a long day, Brian’s phone coincidentally died. It’s possible a threat caught up to him or a drug deal went bad, and someone put a bullet in Brian and took the battery out of his phone. It’s possible Brian turned his phone off so he could later tell Clint it died, in order to explain why he split up. It’s (less) possible Brian ditched Clint, went for a walk to blow off steam and ended up in the river.

In any case, anyone with bad intentions would certainly smash or power off his phone.

Just an aside, the band was on camera in the hallway and in the parking lot without Brian.

But there would have been no reason for Brian to have exited the building in an unconventional manner in order to go to a house party, especially since no other person exited in an unconventional manner.

It is thought that Brian was going to attempt to speak to the band members, who were in the process of leaving.

For argument's sake, let's say that Brian did enter the construction site accidentally after attempting to follow the band but going the wrong way. If that part of the scenario is true, then what do you think happened to Brian after that? Why do you think calls to his phone were going unanswered so quickly (certainly less than ten minutes after he was last seen)?