OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #4

[MerryB]

Yeah, he might have exited the building. Vid evidence suggests he did not, but he still might have. But if he did, you need to conjure up explanations for failure to appear on area cams, failure to appear at apt, failure to use phone, failure to call post-party friends, failure for body to turn up, radio silence for 14 years, and you need to conjure a motive for killing.

Well yes, obviously something happened to him. What exactly, we can’t be sure.
I do know @_Patches is exactly right, though. When finished our basement, after the pipes for the plumbing were put in, we had an inspection. Then the cement was laid over the ground. Before the drywall went up, the wires for electric were inspected. Etc. There are so many steps in the permitted process, no one is just going to pour cement over a body in a 4 ft hole or whatever.
With that said, I suppose something more complicated could’ve happened to him in the construction area, but I’m not sure what it would be & personally find it unlikely with everything we do know.

 

[MerryB]

This may be a question for @Looking4Brian but anyone feel free to weigh in:

Many locals feel there may be a connection between Brian’s disappearance & Joey LaBute’s.
Now, Joey was seen exiting the bar on CCTV, but he’s seen leaving alone, and there is no account for where he went or who he was with before his death.
Investigators believe he was using an online app such as Tinder or Grindr while at the bar, and may have left to meet someone.
The difference here is that his body was eventually found.
So, just looking at all potential possibilities, I wonder IF Brian did make it out the back of the building & crossed the street to the Wendy’s parking lot as the search dogs seemed to indicate, could he have met someone over there, perhaps in the parking lot, which was not under surveillance?
I do realize Brian disappeared at a time before texting & online apps, but he could’ve talked to someone & made plans earlier.
This is just one scenario of many in my mind as to why Brian was intent on avoiding his friends when leaving.
I’m wondering if Kelly has asked Detective Hurst if he feels there could be any connection between the 2 cases.

 

[Looking4Brian]

I don't know that bar's policy, or what the state law was at the time we know the bar's last call is at 2 AM. You can stay in the bar and finish your drink, but I've been in bars where no one from outside is allowed inside if they weren't in at last call (2 AM) even if the bar was open later for people to finish their last drink.

Last call at The UTS was between 2:05-2:15 a.m. I don’t believe they stopped people from coming in based on the Orange Sweater Guy from the early days of the investigation. He entered the bar numerous times close to last call and shortly before closing.

 

[Looking4Brian]

This may be a question for @Looking4Brian but anyone feel free to weigh in:

Many locals feel there may be a connection between Brian’s disappearance & Joey LaBute’s.
Now, Joey was seen exiting the bar on CCTV, but he’s seen leaving alone, and there is no account for where he went or who he was with before his death.
Investigators believe he was using an online app such as Tinder or Grindr while at the bar, and may have left to meet someone.
The difference here is that his body was eventually found.
So, just looking at all potential possibilities, I wonder IF Brian did make it out the back of the building & crossed the street to the Wendy’s parking lot as the search dogs seemed to indicate, could he have met someone over there, perhaps in the parking lot, which was not under surveillance?
I do realize Brian disappeared at a time before texting & online apps, but he could’ve talked to someone & made plans earlier.
This is just one scenario of many in my mind as to why Brian was intent on avoiding his friends when leaving.
I’m wondering if Kelly has asked Detective Hurst if he feels there could be any connection between the 2 cases.

I have not asked Detective Hurst this question, but I will. Joey’s disappearance reminded me a lot of Brian’s disappearance as well.

 

[zasar18]

Sorry if this has been answered before--I'm fairly new to this case. I understand that Brian's vehicle was found parked in its normal position, but have we considered the possibility that he owned or borrowed a second vehicle? If he did choose to leave his life behind and wanted to minimize his trail, perhaps he informally purchased a cheap scrap car to escape. Thoughts?

 

[_Patches]

Sorry if this has been answered before--I'm fairly new to this case. I understand that Brian's vehicle was found parked in its normal position, but have we considered the possibility that he owned or borrowed a second vehicle? If he did choose to leave his life behind and wanted to minimize his trail, perhaps he informally purchased a cheap scrap car to escape. Thoughts?

Interesting thought, I imagine they checked bank records from before he went missing to see if he had pulled out a sizable amount of money, but if it was cheap enough it could have slipped under the radar. Also being really drunk, he would probably have to leave the next morning you would think.

The True Crime Garage podcast had the team from Missing Maura Murray on their show to discuss Brian, and they were very interested in the fact their are a few railroads in the area (around a mile or so radius). To me that seems a little wild to just jump on a passing train, but it’s another speculated mode of transportation he could have used.

 

[itsrak]

Sorry if this has been answered before--I'm fairly new to this case. I understand that Brian's vehicle was found parked in its normal position, but have we considered the possibility that he owned or borrowed a second vehicle? If he did choose to leave his life behind and wanted to minimize his trail, perhaps he informally purchased a cheap scrap car to escape. Thoughts?

Horrible of Brian to have set up GF for a fall, plan big trip with her whilst simultaneously planning to permanently blow her off and walk out of her life two days prior. And to fool everyone by kicking the whole thing off while hammered - who would suspect? - genius! And he didn't need to avoid all those cams that night, maybe he did it just to taunt those who he knew would try to find him - devious and cruel!

 

[zasar18]

Horrible of Brian to have set up GF for a fall, plan big trip with her whilst simultaneously planning to permanently blow her off and walk out of her life two days prior. And to fool everyone by kicking the whole thing off while hammered - who would suspect? - genius! And he didn't need to avoid all those cams that night, maybe he did it just to taunt those who he knew would try to find him - devious and cruel!

I'm not saying it's likely. I'm saying it's worth considering.
If Brian left, all signs indicate that his decision wasn't about "walking out of her [Alexis'] life". If he did walk away, it was most likely done to escape his own life. Considering all of the major stressors occurring in his life in that brief period (upcoming Board exams, death of his mother, etc.), one would be hard-pressed to justify the idea that Alexis was a primary motivator in his decision to leave.
As for kicking things off while hammered, we have no evidence that he did. He almost certainly left the bar that night. The cameras probably missed it. That doesn't mean that he actually fled that night. It's entirely possible (and likely) that if he did leave, he sobered up a bit first. It's not hard to find a place to lay low for a few hours. As someone who lived in the neighborhood around that time, I can tell you that surveillance in that area was not as significant as it is often painted to have been...There really weren't that many cameras. It was nothing like it is today. Whether he met foul play of left on his own accord, it is completely reasonable to believe that the cameras (not the escalator camera, but others in the area) just missed him.

 

[Ozoner]

I'm not saying it's likely. I'm saying it's worth considering.
If Brian left, all signs indicate that his decision wasn't about "walking out of her [Alexis'] life". If he did walk away, it was most likely done to escape his own life. Considering all of the major stressors occurring in his life in that brief period (upcoming Board exams, death of his mother, etc.), one would be hard-pressed to justify the idea that Alexis was a primary motivator in his decision to leave.
As for kicking things off while hammered, we have no evidence that he did. He almost certainly left the bar that night. The cameras probably missed it. That doesn't mean that he actually fled that night. It's entirely possible (and likely) that if he did leave, he sobered up a bit first. It's not hard to find a place to lay low for a few hours. As someone who lived in the neighborhood around that time, I can tell you that surveillance in that area was not as significant as it is often painted to have been...There really weren't that many cameras. It was nothing like it is today. Whether he met foul play of left on his own accord, it is completely reasonable to believe that the cameras (not the escalator camera, but others in the area) just missed him.

I guess it depends upon what you mean by reasonable. No one can say it isn't possible, but it isn't very bloody likely. The cameras captured the departure of every single person known to be in the building save one: Brian Shaffer, the one who was never seen again. Quite a coincidence, one might say.

 

[itsrak]

I guess it depends upon what you mean by reasonable. No one can say it isn't possible, but it isn't very bloody likely. The cameras captured the departure of every single person known to be in the building save one: Brian Shaffer, the one who was never seen again. Quite a coincidence, one might say.

One heck of a coincidence. A coincidence that gets ignored plenty but that just won't go away, as the years roll by, with continual radio silence.

 

[MerryB]

Also remember, we don’t *know* he was drunk. Clint is the source of the information that Brian was drinking heavily. IMO he does not appear to be heavily intoxicated on CCTV.

 

[_Patches]

Also remember, we don’t *know* he was drunk. Clint is the source of the information that Brian was drinking heavily. IMO he does not appear to be heavily intoxicated on CCTV.

Didn’t the woman from Kelly’s podcast who was also at the bar state he was drunk?

 

[itsrak]

Also remember, we don’t *know* he was drunk. Clint is the source of the information that Brian was drinking heavily. IMO he does not appear to be heavily intoxicated on CCTV.

When you go out with your wingman after exams, and you're drinking shots at every bar you go to, the whole idea is to get loose, to get drunk. Of course he was drunk. I think that probably factored into the fact that he was the one person who per video seemed not to have exited the Gateway complex, such as perhaps via an accident. In the completely dug up construction area. BTW, there is zero reason to doubt Clint.

 

[MerryB]

Didn’t the woman from Kelly’s podcast who was also at the bar state he was drunk?

Brightan actually stated that she was so drunk, she did not remember much of the night in question. She didn’t remember any specific conversation she had with Brian, just that he was flirting with her & kissing her, and she put her number in his phone as they said goodbye. She compared her memory to a silent movie; she remembered her feelings & actions more than any dialogue. She stated that Brian did not seem overly intoxicated but was upbeat and social, mingling with others.

 

[MerryB]

When you go out with your wingman after exams, and you're drinking shots at every bar you go to, the whole idea is to get loose, to get drunk. Of course he was drunk. I think that probably factored into the fact that he was the one person who per video seemed not to have exited the Gateway complex, such as perhaps via an accident. In the completely dug up construction area. BTW, there is zero reason to doubt Clint.

Brian may have been drunk. However, he also may not have been.
For those of us who are open to any & all scenarios, we need to consider the evidence, without assumptions.
Yes, one might assume hitting the bars would result in intoxication. Do we have proof of that though? Clint didn’t want to answer any questions under oath...was he being truthful? He says they were doing shots of hard alcohol throughout the night. Yet, from the small bit of evidence available to us (CCTV footage), Brian does not seem to be heavily intoxicated. IMO he’s quite spry on that escalator, leaning back on the rail, turning to talk to Meredith, hopping off at the landing...just makes me wonder.

 

[Falkner77]

BTW, there is zero reason to doubt Clint.

Man... between aggressively silly (and repeated) comments just like this, along with other cynical remarks about Brian and the case by @itsrak ... let’s just say it’s counterproductive at best.

I mean - come on, ZERO? I can understand how one would think he’s totally innocent ... but zero reason to doubt the guy he was hanging out with all night before he disappeared perhaps forever? Who he also had arguments with that night and 2 weeks prior? Not to mention the evasiveness by he and the lawyer.

 

[itsrak]

Man... between aggressively silly (and repeated) comments just like this, along with other cynical remarks about Brian and the case by @itsrak ... let’s just say it’s counterproductive at best.

I mean - come on, ZERO? I can understand how one would think he’s totally innocent ... but zero reason to doubt the guy he was hanging out with all night before he disappeared perhaps forever? Who he also had arguments with that night and 2 weeks prior? Not to mention the evasiveness by he and the lawyer.

OK, not zero reason to doubt Clint, just slim reason. Think of an old friend - chances are high you've bitched at each other about something at some point, right? So if something happens to friend, someone will note that you'd argued with him, and well, hmmmm. Yeah, Clint was with Brian that evening. But Brian went silent at 2am (probably died around that time IMO) when Clint was with Meredith thru 10am. Clint was definitely not with Brian when Brian permanently disappeared. And what about the other friends they were with that evening, Meredith and the other med school friends - they could just as easily be perps, right? The other med school friends, whose identities we do not know, may be more likely perps than Clint, because Clint at least has an alibi through 10am. Evasiveness?! Clint cooperated - just ask Hurst. He spoke to media. He willingly sat for an interview with CPD. His car was subjected to forensics. He, apparently being well-informed, hired an attorney. That is NOT suspicious, it is smart. He declined a lie detector test per his attorney's counsel, which per Hurst is common. He was not even indicted by a Grand Jury, Grand Juries being famous for indicting even uniformly innocent ham sandwiches. The only thing I know of that casts any doubt Clint's way at all is two case insiders - Derek Shaffer and Tom Waggoner - having many years ago publicly implied that Clint knows something about what happened to Brian. But they don't back this hearsay up with anything. So yeah, slim reason to doubt Clint. But no facts backing it up, unfortunately.

 

[Ozoner]

Man... between aggressively silly (and repeated) comments just like this, along with other cynical remarks about Brian and the case by @itsrak ... let’s just say it’s counterproductive at best.

I mean - come on, ZERO? I can understand how one would think he’s totally innocent ... but zero reason to doubt the guy he was hanging out with all night before he disappeared perhaps forever? Who he also had arguments with that night and 2 weeks prior? Not to mention the evasiveness by he and the lawyer.

Evasiveness is a subjective term. It is also what some would call a loaded word. In my opinion, Clint was not evasive.
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In the US, no one is ever required to answer questions from law enforcement.
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Refusal to answer questions cannot be considered evidence of guilt.
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There is, then, no evidence to implicate Clint in Brian's disappearance. In fact, Clint has an alibi for the first several hours after Brian disappeared.
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I remain convinced that Brian died in the construction area. I believe it was an accidental death (99.9 % chance). It isn't impossible that he witnessed something he wasn't supposed to see, like a drug deal or homosexual encounter, and was murdered (0.1 % chance).

 

[Falkner77]

Fair enough - there is definitely no evidence to implicate him or anyone else in the disappearance and that’s why we’re here.

However, it just seems like he has to know a little more than he’s let on.

 

[Tman2004]

Evasiveness is a subjective term. It is also what some would call a loaded word. In my opinion, Clint was not evasive.
-
In the US, no one is ever required to answer questions from law enforcement.
-
Refusal to answer questions cannot be considered evidence of guilt.
-
There is, then, no evidence to implicate Clint in Brian's disappearance. In fact, Clint has an alibi for the first several hours after Brian disappeared.
-
I remain convinced that Brian died in the construction area. I believe it was an accidental death (99.9 % chance). It isn't impossible that he witnessed something he wasn't supposed to see, like a drug deal or homosexual encounter, and was murdered (0.1 % chance).

I still can’t decide what I think most likely happened. But just to add to the discussion how do you think he got into the area? Were the two cops on the landing of the escalators too distracted to notice him? Why would he have gone in there after chatting with the two women? If it was to evade Clint and Meredith what was that reason? In my experience if he wanted to “explore” the construction area he would have recruited Clint. But for the sake of the conversation let’s say he went in. What was the actual condition of the area. The term completely dug up to me means massive trenches and pipes/sewer type things being done. If it was completely dug up like that as Hearst says then how would they have missed his body? Incompetence? Half hearted search thinking it was just some college guy who was off on a bender and couldn’t actually be there? He somehow got buried in fresh poured concrete or a cave in of gravel and nobody bothered to mention those possibilities or if they did Hearst and cpd blew it off as impossible. The more I think about it I think he left in the crowd and the video watching detective missed it. With that grainy video there’s no way you can account for every single person coming and going. What happened after that is impossible to know it would be 100% guessing. All the evidence needs to be released at this point. How could it possibly impede anything. That new cold case detective is just one lady and has a ton of cases probably. The public would probably solve it sooner than she ever will.