OH - Disabled boy was forcibly baptized at an evangelical church, lawsuit says

[al66pine]

....Some other food for thoght - the NY Post article stated that the courts involvement with the family ended 14 months before the baptism. Why on earth did they continue sending them with these people??!

^bbm sbm ^ Thx for posting this ^, which I overlooked in Mar 30 article.*
For sake of discussion, taking that stmt as accurate, then seems to be a significant omission from the petition.**

Petition is quite vague about dates. Petition lacks allegation or finding of V as depen, but Ct assigned GaL to V.

paragraph 10. 2014-2016, then-14 y/o girl V had behavior problems.
........................JFS opens "case file" "eventually alleging" V(2) to be "dependent." Q: When did JFS file in ct?
paragraph 11. OH law, consequence of finding of dependent = permits county child serv agency to provide range of serv's.
.........................Allegation of dependency confers jurisdiction over fam in Juv Ct.
.........................JFS filed "dependency case," alleging V(2) was depen.
paragraph 12. Per OH law, after finding depen, judge must assign GaL & JFS.
........................GAL works w Juv Ct & co soc serv agency, but independent of both.
paragraph 13. In G county, GaL pool is from CASA-G Co. exclusively, & act /color of st law.
paragraph 14. In ct proceeding re V(2), JFS & Juv ct "determined" V also needed co serv's & GaL.
.......................Tho no allegation V was depen. or req'ed govt interntion. At times JFS & Juv Ct examines to see if other chidren in home need serv.
paragraph 15. B/c V was "socially awkward" JFS asked Juv Ct to assign GaL to V.
.......................Juv Ct approved assignmt of CASA, & CASA assigned Vaughan to V's case, so Vaughan acted /color of st law.

NYP article said boy was "developmentally delayed" but if this petition specified nature of disability, I missed.

Questions:
1. As this ^ petition ack'ed lack allegation that V was depen, and this ^ failed to ref to "Juv Ct finding" of same, did the ct - back then - enter a finding that he was depen?
2. If no finding of V as depen, then why did Juv Ct assign CASA, which then assigned Vaughan?

Just wondering and as usual JM2cts.


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* "A Geauga County judge on Wednesday said the family’s court involvement ended 14 months before the baptism, something the lawsuit failed to note." bbm http://nypost.com/2017/03/30/parents-claim-disabled-son-was-baptized-against-their-wishes/

** "Link to petition You can read the complete filing here.' https://www.atheists.org/2017/03/child-forced-baptism/ Mar 27, 2017

 

[wendybtn]

Idea of this forced baptism & religious indoctrination is atrocious, if it happened as described in link.
But ... 1st A rights? How did fed or st govt violate this child's rights?

What is nature of the boy's disability? Physical? Cognitive? Why did ct appt guardian for him? IRC, guardian was Vaughn.
What was official involvement of 'Big Brother, David Guarnera, 54?'

Trying to figure out who's who.

"The DeFibaughs felt intimidated by Vaughan and complained to her supervisors at CASA For Kids of Geauga County, but the officials declined to remove Vaughan as their children's guardian."

"The couple accuses the defendants of violating their First Amendment rights to freedom of religion, as well as separation of church and state.
Named defendants in the lawsuit are Guarnera, Chesnes, Vaughan, Morning Star Friends Church, Big Brothers/Big Sisters of Northeast Ohio, and CASA For Kids of Geauga County." bbm
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/03/eleven-year-old_disabled_boy_w.html (same as SophieRose'sPost).

JM2cts.

Where I live, CASA takes in abused, neglected kids. Some eventually are placed for adoption, some families pull it together. The court commonly appoints a guardian supposedly to keep the children's best interests in mind. So, usually criminal findings are involved.
Big Brother cannot go against what the parents or guardians want and keeping within the BB guidelines.
So the lawsuit is civil. Did the guardian give permission for the baptism?

 

[wendybtn]

I have known a couple of parents who had to petition the courts for services for their disabled children, however, this is just bizarre. Sister, "V2" was found in need of services and because of that Ohio examined brother "V" to see if services were needed. Sounds good so far. Brother "V" was deemed dependent and in need of services (the GAL who recommended her pastor and friend as mentor and also removal from the home if the parents refused religion) because he was socially awkward?!? This is nutso. CASA and BBBS are both govt contracted nonprofits who in this case were "guardians" for the children during outings and while providing state mandated services.

I've read most of it, and will finish after I get my little ones to bed. If I'm misunderstanding something please help because this is pretty odd.

ETA.... IMO being socially awkward is not a disability and something that many if not most kids deal with.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly! Few and far between are the teenagers who don't have a phase or longer of social awkwardness.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Northeast Ohioan here, with some experience with local custody courts, CFS, etc.

So yes, family services was apparently involved as the suit mentions GFS (Geauga Family Services) specifically.

In my county, all GALs must be attorneys. In Geauga County they used trained CASA volunteers. Here's the Geauga Juvenile Court page that describes their CASA program: http://www.co.geauga.oh.us/commonpleas/Juvenile/CASA There are pluses and minuses to both systems from what I've observed.

As a pastor's wife, these allegations make me so sad, even though I realize we may not have the full story. Our church doesn't do immersion baptism, but that doesn't mean I'm against it or think it's traumatic. (I think that part is just lawyering.) However, I'm concerned if this child was made to participate in this against his will and without the consent of his parents.

I truly see my faith as an amazing, life-changing experience. Of course I want to share it! But I want to share it in a way that is respectful, just like anyone else. Some people have other passions - for exercise or Beyonce or sushi or a hundred other things.
You can talk to me about sushi, that's cool. You can even invite me to go to your favorite sushi spot. Chances are, I'll accept. But you can't force me to eat sushi. That's crossing a boundary in our relationship, and not treating me, your friend, with respect. So that's kind of how I feel about this case from what we know.

But if I understand right, that was the BB who was there for the baptism, not the social worker. It's easy to see how the social worker might have known someone at her church who was a BB volunteer and thought that person and organization could be beneficial to this 'socially awkward' child who has seemingly dealt with a lot. The lawsuit seems to try to paint this as all as some kind of nefarious conspiracy. Unless they show some evidence of that, I'm going to withhold my judgement on that aspect for now.

 

[al66pine]

Thank you very much for your local(ish) input, your experience as a pastor's wife, and your recognition that thru MSM, we do not have the full story. Seems we have only one side of 'the story' IIUC because we've not seen responses from the various defendants in this lawsuit, if they have been filed w the court.

And thank you for link to Geauga County CASA program.

On a personal note, thank you for being receptive to considering the passions of others and balancing that against your passion.

Altho we are several states apart, it would be great to get together w you and others for a lemonade, latte, beer, or glass of wine, and discuss this case, but maybe we can agree to skip the sushi (LOL).

Below w bbm sbm. JM2cts.

Northeast Ohioan here, with some experience with local custody courts, CFS, etc.

So yes, family services was apparently involved as the suit mentions GFS (Geauga Family Services) specifically.

In my county, all GALs must be attorneys. In Geauga County they used trained CASA volunteers. Here's the Geauga Juvenile Court page that describes their CASA program: http://www.co.geauga.oh.us/commonpleas/Juvenile/CASA

As a pastor's wife, these allegations make me so sad, even though I realize we may not have the full story.
I truly see my faith as an amazing, life-changing experience. Of course I want to share it! But I want to share it in a way that is respectful, just like anyone else. Some people have other passions - for exercise or Beyonce or sushi or a hundred other things.
You can talk to me about sushi, that's cool. You can even invite me to go to your favorite sushi spot. Chances are, I'll accept. But you can't force me to eat sushi. That's crossing a boundary in our relationship, and not treating me, your friend, with respect. So that's kind of how I feel about this case from what we know.

But if I understand right, that was the BB who was there for the baptism, not the social worker. It's easy to see how the social worker might have known someone at her church who was a BB volunteer and thought that person and organization could be beneficial to this 'socially awkward' child who has seemingly dealt with a lot. The lawsuit seems to try to paint this as all as some kind of nefarious conspiracy. Unless they show some evidence of that, I'm going to withhold my judgement on that aspect for now.

 

[gitana1]

^bbm sbm ^ Thx for posting this ^, which I overlooked in Mar 30 article.*
For sake of discussion, taking that stmt as accurate, then seems to be a significant omission from the petition.**

Petition is quite vague about dates. Petition lacks allegation or finding of V as depen, but Ct assigned GaL to V.

paragraph 10. 2014-2016, then-14 y/o girl V had behavior problems.
........................JFS opens "case file" "eventually alleging" V(2) to be "dependent." Q: When did JFS file in ct?
paragraph 11. OH law, consequence of finding of dependent = permits county child serv agency to provide range of serv's.
.........................Allegation of dependency confers jurisdiction over fam in Juv Ct.
.........................JFS filed "dependency case," alleging V(2) was depen.
paragraph 12. Per OH law, after finding depen, judge must assign GaL & JFS.
........................GAL works w Juv Ct & co soc serv agency, but independent of both.
paragraph 13. In G county, GaL pool is from CASA-G Co. exclusively, & act /color of st law.
paragraph 14. In ct proceeding re V(2), JFS & Juv ct "determined" V also needed co serv's & GaL.
.......................Tho no allegation V was depen. or req'ed govt interntion. At times JFS & Juv Ct examines to see if other chidren in home need serv.
paragraph 15. B/c V was "socially awkward" JFS asked Juv Ct to assign GaL to V.
.......................Juv Ct approved assignmt of CASA, & CASA assigned Vaughan to V's case, so Vaughan acted /color of st law.

NYP article said boy was "developmentally delayed" but if this petition specified nature of disability, I missed.

Questions:
1. As this ^ petition ack'ed lack allegation that V was depen, and this ^ failed to ref to "Juv Ct finding" of same, did the ct - back then - enter a finding that he was depen?
2. If no finding of V as depen, then why did Juv Ct assign CASA, which then assigned Vaughan?

Just wondering and as usual JM2cts.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* "A Geauga County judge on Wednesday said the family’s court involvement ended 14 months before the baptism, something the lawsuit failed to note." bbm http://nypost.com/2017/03/30/parents-claim-disabled-son-was-baptized-against-their-wishes/

** "Link to petition You can read the complete filing here.' https://www.atheists.org/2017/03/child-forced-baptism/ Mar 27, 2017

This seems very odd. All of it. Are we sure what happened and if it even happened?

If the kid wasn't in the custody of whoever baptized him, is there grounds for a lawsuit? That would be like a friend baptizing your kid without your permission, behind your back. Ok. Boundary crossing and weird. So you realize they're crazy and don't let your kid go with them again.

Now if the parents had no ability to prevent this person from taking their child someplace, Ok. A lawsuit makes a lot of sense. Then it's a case of the state imposing a religion on a child in violation of the parents' rights.

But if not, hell, it could be a matter of a kid being exposed to someone's religion, asking to be baptized and then claiming it was coerced
whem the parents found out and got upset.

I see a lawsuit being viable only if they had custody of the child or state authority over him, or if not, if they physically coerced the kid.