GUILTY OH - Elaina Steinfurth, 17 months, Toledo, 2 Jun 2013 - #4

[Solitaryone]

As promised, here's your short tour of the Maumee River http://youtu.be/x4CpOoU79t0

Thank you very much for posting this video. Much appreciated.

 

[sorrell skye]

am i the only one waiting on pins and needles to see what goes down tomorrow in court for AS?

trying not to get my hopes up too high... but i can't help but sit here with my fingers crossed.

You're not the only one waiting on pins & needles, Mamacita - I can assure you!

 

[wing560]

As promised, here's your short tour of the Maumee River http://youtu.be/x4CpOoU79t0

Thank you so much, Fred, for doing this tour! It is a daunting task to try to search the banks with that much overgrowth....can't imagine how anybody not wielding a machete could get through. I hate to think of a precious child thrown in the water along with all the garbage. How could anybody do that?

 

[sorrell skye]

But darn it, now it is out there and I want to know why he wasn't there. I suppose the RO is the likely answer but I would have expected some kind of "woe is me" statement to the media from him. When does the local jail allow visitation? I wonder if he visited with Angela this weekend.

For all anyone knows, RS may have been there. He may have been in the crowd, and may not have been seen by the person who claims that he wasn't there. IDK

 

[bjt72]

Thank you Fred for your video, most don't realize how the Maumee river is.

 

[sorrell skye]

As promised, here's your short tour of the Maumee River http://youtu.be/x4CpOoU79t0

TY for your reporting, Fred, and TY for this helpful video.

Just because I ask questions doesn't mean I don't appreciate your work on baby Elaina's case. Thank You for your work & for your reporting. It's much appreciated. Since you're a reporter, I assume you appreciate the value of questions, since you yourself are required to ask questions during the course of your job.

My late father was in radio broadcasting, and I was raised to ask questions.

 

[TOLEDO]

Thank you so much, Fred, for doing this tour! It is a daunting task to try to search the banks with that much overgrowth....can't imagine how anybody not wielding a machete could get through.

There are well-worn paths all up and down the banks where people stroll in from the street to the water for purposes of fishing, partying, canoodling of all manner.

It isn't the overgrowth that is the issue - it's the murk and the current. It really is a rather thick river. It also flows out to Maumee Bay - near a yacht club and Cullen Park.

When we have an extraordinarily dry season, parts of the river literally dry up or nearly dry up and one can see all the stolen cars & various objects one wouldn't expect to see on the floor of a river, etc.

 

[SusanB]

Have not posted on WS for quite a while, but this case caught my eye from the media. At first, I was reasonably sure AS/SK inflicted visible injuries on the baby, and wisked her out the back door so TJ would not see. My thought: in AS' mind she could hide the child away for awhile to heal, therefore not to be charged with abuse or have TJ stop visitation privileges.
But after 20+ days, common sense tells me that the person taking care of the child in hiding would have revealed themselves by now, or evidence of a living breathing Elaina would emerge somehow. These folks have limited means for extensive underground hiding capabilities.
Sadly, another potential child abuse case that may have been lethal.
I have seen far too many cases of young mothers placing their children in harms way. I wish there was more I could do.

 

[ceecee30]

I agree. Some are obviously borderline; others are harder to diagnose.

The walking/abandonment issue is just a theory. I'm guessing it came about as a means to explain how the shame/false self bits come about and/or how environment in the nature/nurture debate plays out. The first time I heard about this theory, I found it far-fetched. The second time I read about it on this website on the Baby Gabriel/Elizabeth Johnson thread, pertaining to EJ's mental state. Since then, I've taken notice of how so many of these seemingly loving moms are diagnosed as borderline and how they dispose of their toddlers without a whole lot of thought or emotion. I was wondering if there may be some truth to the theory. (Obviously, these moms are much sicker than diagnosed, insightful and higher functioning types.)

The abandonment associated with the baby first learning to walk was explained to me as a continuum of behavior, at the mild end a subtle emotional pulling away or failing to be emotionally present...to leaving the child with others to raise (maybe a nanny)...to physically leaving a child...to failing to protect the child from known dangers/predators...to actually abusing/killing a child.

From what I was told, most borderlines wouldn't be conscious of their abandonment fears/triggers, especially if they hadn't undergone therapy, acknowledge their issues, and want to change.

Sometimes, people diagnosed as borderline don't have the full-blown personality disorder, but merely borderline traits. Also, sometimes former borderlines get better, and no longer meet the diagnostic criteria.

I don't know if this theory is true. Just throwing it out there since I do see a trend in moms hurting babies and shrinks say BPD is on the rise in our society.

With the drugs/custody disputes...it's hard to know if they are a cause of her behavior or a symptom of BPD. Borderlines have a higher incidence of substance abuse, partner-hopping, and terminating relationships prematurely, which can lead to custody disputes.

It's on the rise because there is now less negative stigma about BPD, that and dr Marsha linehan has paved the way for reducing stigma seeing as she's borderline herself, however it still only affects 1-2% of the population and 74% of that 1-2% is female.

Borderlines will ONLY get better if treated with medication, DBT/CBT & physcotherapy but we are adaptable little critters and therefore may take the form of someone who is "normal" BPD sufferers mimic others behavior quite commonly (again that also reduces diagnosis)

I can say that the abandonment issue is something we feel either diagnosed or undiagnosed, mine is a combination of severe emotional abuse as a child, however I disprove the walking toddler/abandonment theory as I was unaware of my BPD with first child (22month old) and became aware of it with second (10month old) with either child I have not felt abandoned due to them learning to walk or my eldest being a daddy's boy.

Personally I think the BPD is just an excuse these mums are using because I am a very Severe BPD sufferer, I meet all 9 criteria pints with or without therapy, my functionality in life is nowhere near a normal, yet I'm able to study full time, run a house, care for my kids etc. the only time you'd tell is if I'm in crisis and then I'm probably the most dangerous person to upset... There's no telling what my mind will do... Medicated or not... However I will only hurt myself... Medication is purely just a placebo for the BPD but treats the co morbid conditions that hinder your recovery.

*Just a bit of insight to a extreme sufferers case of BPD*

 

[Solitaryone]

Does anyone know if JVM and NG are going to cover baby Elaina tomorrow night? I'd think so, especially since AS will be in court tomorrow. I hope they continue to cover this case until baby Elaina is found, and the guilty punished.

 

[TOLEDO]

I do my best to live by the rule:
I am not a psychiatrist nor do I have a license to use the DSM-V for anything other than my own amusement.

It is really easy for us to sit around and say AS is whatever the diagnosis du jour is. Keep in mind that it can also be bi polar, dissociative, addiction, depression, anxiety, ptsd, any number of AXIS II criteria, etc etc etc.

One gets into a very dangerous game with all of this. . . not knowing background, belief system, experiences, psychological make up, psychic patterning, etc...

On the other hand - if you would like to diagnose me - have at it.

 

[wing560]

Does anyone know if JVM and NG are going to cover baby Elaina tomorrow night? I'd think so, especially since AS will be in court tomorrow. I hope they continue to cover this case until baby Elaina is found, and the guilty punished.

Zimmerman's trial starts tomorrow so I hope they won't spend the whole evening rehashing the opening statements.

 

[TOLEDO]

Does anyone know if JVM and NG are going to cover baby Elaina tomorrow night? I'd think so, especially since AS will be in court tomorrow. I hope they continue to cover this case until baby Elaina is found, and the guilty punished.

NG will be *definitely covering Baby Elaina on MONDAY, TUES, WED and THURSDAY.

Tomorrow - Dr Drew -- my guess would be that JVM will have something at least tomorrow.

 

[italianangel2411]

I am SO happy that NG and others will be covering it again starting tomorrow! The more media attention hopefully the closer to resolving this and finding Elaina. I'm SO disappointed she wasn't located over the weekend
Do we know what time she is due in court Tomm?

 

[italianangel2411]

Blanket found underneath the bridge said on YouTube video posted. Urgh! Watching the video my stomach is so sick! Just a lump in my throat watching and praying for Elaina...my heart is breaking

 

[sorrell skye]

I do my best to live by the rule:
I am not a psychiatrist nor do I have a license to use the DSM-V for anything other than my own amusement.

It is really easy for us to sit around and say AS is whatever the diagnosis du jour is. Keep in mind that it can also be bi polar, dissociative, addiction, depression, anxiety, ptsd, any number of AXIS II criteria, etc etc etc.

One gets into a very dangerous game with all of this. . . not knowing background, belief system, experiences, psychological make up, psychic patterning, etc...

On the other hand - if you would like to diagnose me - have at it.

BBM

I agree.

Nobody can diagnose anyone over the internet.

I don't know if it's necessarily a dangerous game, but I think it's a pointless game that serves no purpose.

Only a psychiatrist or psychologist who would potentially meet with AS in person, interview her, and administer tests and evaluate those tests, can diagnose her. None of us who are on the outside looking in have any idea what may be going on with her.

I have no interest in armchair diagnoses.

 

[italianangel2411]

I didn't realize how big the river was and that there were so many bridges.
Is there anywhere else closer to home on land anyone thinks she might be?

 

[Solitaryone]

Blanket found underneath the bridge said on YouTube video posted. Urgh! Watching the video my stomach is so sick! Just a lump in my throat watching and praying for Elaina...my heart is breaking

On the Find Baby Elaina fb there's a post from whoever runs that page saying: "Find Baby Elaina UPDATE: A baby blanket did wash ashore yesterday, but according to a source it is not believed to be Elaina's . Can Anyone close to the family or that house remember what type of blankets were in that house?"

about an hour ago.

https://www.facebook.com/FindBabyElaina?hc_location=stream

 

[ahintexas]

Blanket found underneath the bridge said on YouTube video posted. Urgh! Watching the video my stomach is so sick! Just a lump in my throat watching and praying for Elaina...my heart is breaking

Is this a new video?

 

[italianangel2411]

Please remove if not allowed to post this. I heard there is a barn w/old cars on a property the king family owns I hope all areas that has connections to Angela or King family is searched thoroughly but I'm sure it is. Maybe there's a childhood location that is significant to Angela.