Found Deceased OH - Harley Dilly, 14, walking to Port Clinton High School, 20 Dec 2019 #5

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I'm now wondering if it is a regional thing. Many years ago we lived in a house that was built in the mid to late 1800's ours had access in the house. I vividly remember cause the access was in my room in the closet. I was in there one time and my leg fell through rotted plywood that covering the access. I have a 2 inch scar on my shin and scarred for life because my brothers were laughing and telling me spiders (this wasn't long after the movie Arachnophobia was released and scared the crap out of me) were now crawling all over my leg while they were trying to pull me out lmao. This was in the Western Slope of Colorado. I'll research more into if it was a regional thing or just the preference of the builder.

Edit- I remember my house in Cali had access in the house, it was in the utility room. Where I currently live in WNY ours did until a couple months ago. We had a house fire. The fire started in the same room the access was and when we came back after everything was fixed, there isn't access from the room anymore. That reminds me, I might want to look where they moved it to. lol. I know this probably isn't pertinent to the case. But it has got me wondering. I apologize if the crawl space talk t=is too off topic!
 
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deugirtni said:
I have seen homes with only crawlspaces as opposed to basements, which have access to the main part of the home. Crawlspaces can be used for storage and etc. Unless we know from someone that the house did not have access to it? Why would a non-accessible crawlspace have a window?
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Based on the age of the house, I would think there was a basement/root cellar at one time probably not something you would want to use as the tradition laundry room. Bet there is a door in his off of kitchen that's perhaps closed up.
 
Cool Cats said:
Wow thankx for clearing this up. It was always on my mind that Harley or others that day could have busted out a basement window and gained access that way. My sister and I did this when it was cold and we were locked out of the house after school, lost the key.

Stupid thing to do when we had friends and neighbors nearby but we were 13 and 14 and did things without thinking it through.

Point is, you found proof the basement window was busted, then you found proof that it was a crawl space and not a basement, thus, no entrance could be gained into the home.
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That's what the county property records show, at any rate. That's probably right, but they aren't always infallible. Especially in houses kept in the family estate since forever and the property hasn't changed hands to an outside buyer, requiring a new deed title search. That's when discrepancies, corrections and updates to the auditor records might be caught and made.

It isn't a given, either, that there would or would not be inside floor access to the space. I know they've become far less common in more modern homes, but I think they weren't unheard of in houses that old. I read that they were most typically in a closet or pantry or more out of the way area. I'm certain the son of the owners knows what is or isn't there, but I haven't actually seen where he addressed that or was even questioned about it. Just the media focus on chimney/fireplace questions that he explained.

The main thing, in my thinking. is that if HD was merely seeking a place to temporarily dodge the elements or the sight line of his mom or anyone else for a short time, there were a number of other potential hiding places on that property, like that one, that would seem more accessible and convenient. He grew up across the street from that house for 10 years, traveled that ally that borders it a million times and I bet he knew about every one of them. Under the porch, the deck, the crawl space. There is also a 12 x 20 older garage structure, 30's vintage, according to the records. It looks like it faces East 5th St. I haven't seen any full pictures of it all the way around in terms of window or other rear or side door openings.

eta of course we don't know when, if broken out, why, or for how long that window was like that.

JMO
 
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deugirtni said:
I took a screenshot of that window from link above and pasting it below.. to me it looks like there is a wooden board in place of the window, but the board is propped open a little,.. it looks to be with some kind of a pole or stick to push and prop the board in place to the inside, and looks also like there is a block or a brick or something also in the bottom center.. the purpose of these items might be to keep the wood ajar from the window hole.. could the homeowner have done this to allow airflow into their crawlspace (ie to possibly prevent mold growth or something?)? Or could this have been done ahead of time by kids, or by HD? Could HD have done this thinking that if he went down through the chimney, he'd go straight down and land in the crawlspace (thereby also circumventing any alarm activity in the process), and that he'd then be able to ensure his escape out through the basement window later when he wanted to head home?
ETA: After blowing it up a bit more (also attaching below), it is a broom that is propping the board open at the window.
View attachment 227701

enlarged:
View attachment 227702

Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to do that! Giving us a much better look than that crazy jumped up splices of video.
 
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The area with the crawl space appears to be an addition built later.
I would bet the original house structure does have a basement
 
PKnopf said:
That's what the county property records show, at any rate. That's probably right, but they aren't always infallible. Especially in houses kept in the family estate since forever and the property hasn't changed hands to an outside buyer, requiring a new deed title search. That's when discrepancies, corrections and updates to the auditor records might be caught and made.

It isn't a given, either, that there would or would not be inside floor access to the space. I know they've become far less common in more modern homes, but I think they weren't unheard of in houses that old. I read that they were most typically in a closet or pantry or more out of the way area. I'm certain the son of the owners knows what is or isn't there, but I haven't actually seen where he addressed that or was even questioned about it. Just the media focus on chimney/fireplace questions that he explained.

The main thing, in my thinking. is that if HD was merely seeking a place to temporarily dodge the elements or the sight line of his mom or anyone else for a short time, there were a number of other potential hiding places on that property, like that one, that would seem more accessible and convenient. He grew up across the street from that house for 10 years, traveled that ally that borders it a million times and I bet he knew about every one of them. Under the porch, the deck, the crawl space. There is also a 12 x 20 older garage structure, 30's vintage, according to the records. It looks like it faces East 5th St. I haven't seen any full pictures of it all the way around in terms of window or other rear or side door openings.

eta of course we don't know when, if broken out, why, or for how long that window was like that.

JMO
Click to expand...
Well thankx again for all the information. I wonder why the crawl space window appears to be slightly propped open, someone said it looks like with a broom. I have a crawl space and I have panels for access and a panel came loose and I ended up hosting a family of newborn possums :eek: under the house. Eventually the family moved on.
Then somehow last winter a cat took refuge under there and an arctic freeze :confused: came in so we actually were glad it was safe and could feed and H2O it because it wouldn't let us catch him. He disappeared completely in the spring.

Anyway, I'm surprised it is not sealed but that is neither here nor there at this point.
 
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Linda7NJ said:
The area with the crawl space appears to be an addition built later.
I would bet the original house structure does have a basement
Click to expand...


From my own research, and I could be wrong, but my best guess is that they had - what they called in the 1800's - a root cellar where they stored fruits, vegtables, dry goods, other goods, and some served also as wash (laundry) rooms.

They were considered a place for storage under the house and helped to keep food cool with no refrigeration in summer ( ice boxes did come into play after 1830 where you had huge chunks of ice delivered covered in sawdust) and they kept food from freezing in the winter. Nothing like full basements - I'm talking 1800's country homes.

Root-cellar-storage.jpg

Note many fruits and vegetables and canned goods, typical in 1800
Country Home built root cellars.

lilithblue said:
I kind of wonder if he went looking under there to find a way into the house, didn't find one, then checked out the chimney. Either that, or possibly LE during the initial search.
Click to expand...
Good ideas...
 
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deugirtni said:
I have seen homes with only crawlspaces as opposed to basements, which have access to the main part of the home. Crawlspaces can be used for storage and etc. Unless we know from someone that the house did not have access to it? Why would a non-accessible crawlspace have a window?
Click to expand...
Based on the age of the house, I would think there was a basement/root cellar at one time probably not something you would want to use as the tradition laundry room. Bet there is a door in his off of kitchen that's perhaps closed up.
 
In Ohio, only physicians can run and be elected as a county coroner. It is actually a political office. Ottawa County coroner Dan Cadigan MD practices family medicine and is not a pathologist. In Ohio, it is not uncommon for a county coroner to make a wrong ruling. For example look up former Stark County (Ohio) coroner Gus Shaheen and The Shaheen Files. Shaheen was not a pathologist nor did he study forensic science. The Shaheen Files: Were former coroner's rulings dead wrong?
 
Linda7NJ said:
I hope it doesn’t become a circus of absurdity with “protestors”
Click to expand...
I hope it doesn't either. I'm dreading watching later and seeing that it has. Protest, that's fine! But don't do it at the child's funeral. Take that **** somewhere else!

Sorry for the anger! I mentioned this awhile back, but these protest makes me as angry as the ones on fallen troops funerals. Really gets my blood boiling. Let him rest in peace. Go protest a the police station or somewhere that isn't honoring the life of a 14 year old child. Ugh
 
PKnopf said:
That's what the county property records show, at any rate. That's probably right, but they aren't always infallible. Especially in houses kept in the family estate since forever and the property hasn't changed hands to an outside buyer, requiring a new deed title search. That's when discrepancies, corrections and updates to the auditor records might be caught and made.

It isn't a given, either, that there would or would not be inside floor access to the space. I know they've become far less common in more modern homes, but I think they weren't unheard of in houses that old. I read that they were most typically in a closet or pantry or more out of the way area. I'm certain the son of the owners knows what is or isn't there, but I haven't actually seen where he addressed that or was even questioned about it. Just the media focus on chimney/fireplace questions that he explained.

The main thing, in my thinking. is that if HD was merely seeking a place to temporarily dodge the elements or the sight line of his mom or anyone else for a short time, there were a number of other potential hiding places on that property, like that one, that would seem more accessible and convenient. He grew up across the street from that house for 10 years, traveled that ally that borders it a million times and I bet he knew about every one of them. Under the porch, the deck, the crawl space. There is also a 12 x 20 older garage structure, 30's vintage, according to the records. It looks like it faces East 5th St. I haven't seen any full pictures of it all the way around in terms of window or other rear or side door openings.

eta of course we don't know when, if broken out, why, or for how long that window was like that.

JMO
Click to expand...

The other thing is that a lot of nearby districts had already started Christmas vacation that Friday, and he could have went to Walmart or something and probably not caught any flack.
 
Could there have been copies of the key out there the owners weren't aware of. People give them to neighbors especially if a house is empty or for emergencies. If people have been working on the house did they have keys? Could they have been copied? I have a problem believing a kid would go down a chimney with no clue where it ended without thinking someone would be ready to call 911. The Chimneys placement appears like release for air for electric heat or could almost be decorative. MOO
 
cherrymeg said:
Could there have been copies of the key out there the owners weren't aware of. People give them to neighbors especially if a house is empty or for emergencies. If people have been working on the house did they have keys? Could they have been copied? I have a problem believing a kid would go down a chimney with no clue where it ended without thinking someone would be ready to call 911. The Chimneys placement appears like release for air for electric heat or could almost be decorative. MOO
Click to expand...
Actually, the purpose of a lockbox is typically to provide for the type of access you describe.
 
Seattle1 said:
Actually, the purpose of a lockbox is typically to provide for the type of access you describe.
Click to expand...

If someone knew the code or had it written down someone could have borrowed a key made copies. The owners I believe said a family member or one of them brought the key home by accident. That's another reason people might have a spare left someone closer. It seems like people would have known it was vacant.
 
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