OH OH - Katelyn Markham, 22, Fairfield, 14 August 2011 - #3

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When I googled it and the site came up I went to the cached version so you could see all the comments.

the @ symbol is someone speaking/replying to luke1 - luke1 was not supporting them in anyway from the comments I could see.

You are correct! I really was to scared to click the video, cause I get so upset by stuff like this - so I clicked it to see what the youtube user name was and it was not him! Then I opened all comments and he was defending the animal not the rat that shot the animal!

Here is the link (broken cause I don't want to see that pic!) if anyone wants to read 22rememberluke1 's comments. (You have to take the space out in front of colon)

http ://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=Umr6D5tteOU
 
As far as I know, A_News_Junkie took the photo of her television. And since she was the first person to note the "circle glare" on the KM photo, I'm assuming it's not from A_N_J's phone/camera.



snipped

So far I haven't heard back from anyone here at WS who has seen what my friend and I clearly identified (separately) as a candy bar phone with a dark border/case around it (the upper left corner -- more specifically, the perfect curve of the corner of the phone and its border/dark-colored case -- are crystal clear next to the flash), which none of the BlackBerry phones we found pictures of have.

snipped

If JC is the responsible party, I would suggest a scenario somewhere along the following lines:

JC returns to the townhouse alone after murdering/disposing of KM. He rushes inside with her purse and keys and, while putting them back in their normal places (and possibly dealing with the dog), the idea that a photo of a hard copy of a photo that can be found in KM's bedroom, sent to his phone from hers later by text message, establishes that she was alive and well and in her bedroom while he was with friends at the time the photo is sent to his phone. A photograph from inside KM's home and sent to him elsewhere would be far more valuable than a simple text -- which could be typed by anyone, anywhere, at any time.

However, JC realizes that instead of carrying KM's phone inside the townhouse with him along with her purse and keys (which are being replaced, again, in an effort to cover himself and to create the illusion that KM's townhouse is the site of an abduction by a random stranger sometime after the photo text was sent/while he was out with his friends), he has left her phone in his car (whether by accident or because he knows he'll need to take it with him) -- but he has his phone in his pocket.

Now, panicked, his "photo text" idea in his mind, he can either run back out to his car to grab KM's cell, but decides that instead of risking arousing suspicion by rushing in and out of the house more than once, he'll simply take the photo NOW with his phone and "deal with it later" after he has left the townhouse and is in the clear. At which point he can simply send the photo from his phone to KM's phone, save it to her phone, and delete 1.) this simple text exchange and 2.) the photo from HIS phone. He can then simply wait until plenty of time has passed and then, long after he has established an alibi with a friend or friends -- around, oh, let's say, 12:52 -- send the photo FROM Katelyn's phone TO his own phone. None of this would be difficult to do -- it would take mere seconds -- and it would all be done this way because it HAD to be done this way: because none of this was premeditated, everything is messy/complicated.

snipped

I very respectfully disagree. I believe, in JC's mind following the murder of KM, a photograph of a photograph located in KM's bedroom, taken in KM's bedroom, and sent from her phone to his phone well after he has established an alibi with friends, goes a lot further toward making him look innocent than a simple text message, which ANYONE could type from ANY LOCATION.





Again, I want to reiterate my proposal here: that if the phone reflected in the photograph is in fact the responsible's phone, it was a mistake on his part, NOT a well-thought out, planned action.

Of course, anything is possible here. It's just as likely that all this "picture of a picture" business was perfectly harmless, and has little or nothing to do with the case; maybe KM took the photo herself weeks or months ago and didn't get around to sending it to JC until that night. Who knows? I don't claim to have any answers here -- I'm filled with questions when it comes to this particular aspect of the case (as well as most of the rest of it, as we all are). My original goal was to simply see if I could make out any reflections of objects the flash may have illuminated in the photo; after recognizing that a phone was partially visible, I simply hoped to recognize the phone reflected in the photo as KM's. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to eliminate this or anything else as a possibility (always my goal, rather than to dream up theories and try to sell people on them), because the phone reflected in the photo does not match any BlackBerry I've seen to this point.

I believe that glare was there when it was on NG, but I could be mistaken....

Your newly worded scenario (not only clears it up a bit in my head) but also made my brain zing back to something he said in that interview. I thought it was weird at the time, but what you said makes it mean something...

When talking about what was still at her house he said something along the lines of, her purse was there, her keys were there, in the purse, everything was there that she would take with her besides her phone. I immediately thought, so what else isn't there? I can't find it again, but there was something odd about the way he said it. Maybe it was the emphasis that he put on it all being there, like as you said, he put it all back and wanted to make sure everyone noticed how great of a job he did putting it all back...and i also finally heard the part where he says that his heart dropped when he saw her car at 7/730, but that she would have gotten home around that time anyway. He would have just thought she was already home....

Also do you notice when it's about him he fills in so much extraneous detail, but when it's about her it's "blah, blah, blah"

I'm sleepy have a good night all.
 
I don't know ANJ- it is only 55 miles to Falmouth

True and it has been three weeks in 100 degree weather, so I guess unless clothing was recognizable...

Oh, and the fact that with JC's long sleep patterns.........( :waitasec: ) certainly whomever did something had time.

IE: I don't want to think it. :-( For either girl, really. That is why I thought more in Paige's thread than here.
 
That river seems a ways away but it does join the Ohio River...is that nearby?

The Ohio River is south of Fairfield. You cross the Ohio River to go into W.Va. It goes west toward Ky. I'm trying to find a map to see but if it dumps into the Lick River it would be around where Ohio, W Va, and Ky meet.

Not too far to make there and back in a night.
 
I almost hope this is Paige...she has been missing too long. But I thought LE felt fairly certain Paige was probably in that huge wooded park area that comprises thousands of acres...
 
True and it has been three weeks in 100 degree weather, so I guess unless clothing was recognizable...

Oh, and the fact that with JC's long sleep patterns.........( :waitasec: ) certainly whomever did something had time.

IE: I don't want to think it. :-( For either girl, really. That is why I thought more in Paige's thread than here.

True, only 40 miles from FLorence
Don't want it to be either, but it is someone:(
 
Dime Detective:

I'm still tryin to understand:

You think that a murder occurred elsewhere...not inside KM's townhouse. Gotcha. Are you saying that he returns her personal belongings to her house but keeps her phone. He then goes to the friend's house to start establishing his alibi.

Now what? Has he already sent the pic of a pic from Katelyn's phone to his phone before arriving at his friend's house?

Well, in such a scenario, when exactly to send the photo to himself "from Katelyn" would've been up to JC at that point. He has disposed of KM, done his best to manipulate her belongings/townhouse to cover his guilt and deflect suspicion, and now he is armed with BOTH phones and an alibi. Once he's spent an hour or so in the company of friends, he could've, as one Websleuth suggested, excused himself to the bathroom, sent that "final" text to himself from her phone, and that's that. The only thing left to do now would've been to destroy/dispose of her phone at a later time.

I'm not suggesting this as "my theory," but rather stating just one feasible scenario that illustrates how/why a phone other than KM's could've been used by the responsible.
 
Well, in such a scenario, when exactly to send the photo to himself "from Katelyn" would've been up to JC at that point. He has disposed of KM, done his best to manipulate her belongings/townhouse to cover his guilt and deflect suspicion, and now he is armed with BOTH phones and an alibi. Once he's spent an hour or so in the company of friends, he could've, as one Websleuth suggested, excused himself to the bathroom, sent that "final" text to himself from her phone, and that's that. The only thing left to do now would've been to destroy/dispose of her phone at a later time.

I'm not suggesting this as "my theory," but rather stating just one feasible scenario that illustrates how/why a phone other than KM's could've been used by the responsible.

Was the friends house where he was hanging out within the same cell towers as KM's apt?
 
Yes! Thank you, A_N_J! Great work, as always!

Im so confused!!! BUT the NG crew would have had to film the picture of the picture, no????? I think that is what a prior poster was alluding to....
Firstly, we DON'T know that this is the "picture" received at 12:52 and secondly, if it is, we don't know how the pic was manipulated afterwards in order to get it to NG. So, I dunno..... I'm not putting a whole lot of faith in the "reflection" at this point. :(
 
thanks, dime detective but here's my question:

What if this friend of his where he eventually wound up after leaving Katelyn's to burn the documents actually lives 45 min. away from her townhouse? Let's say he is ready to send the photo of Katelyn to his cell phone once he gets settled in at his friend's house. Wouldn't detectives be able to tell from the "ping" from Katelyn's cell phone that the photo message was NOT sent from the area of her townhouse but instead it was sent from the location of JC's friend's house?
 
Just a thought but LE might have known about the body before it was released to the papers and that is another reason they delayed the search until Tuesday. Another thing, they had JC go in and do a written statement. Probably wanted that before releasing the news, jic.
 
So far I haven't heard back from anyone here at WS who has seen what my friend and I clearly identified (separately) as a candy bar phone with a dark border/case around it (the upper left corner -- more specifically, the perfect curve of the corner of the phone and its border/dark-colored case -- are crystal clear next to the flash), which none of the BlackBerry phones we found pictures of have.

Of course, KM could've had a case on her phone, but so far I still haven't changed my mind about her having a flip phone (again, I don't see anything on the 8130 that matches the phone in her hand, whereas the flip has the "contour" that belimom has also recognized), and I've never seen a case like the ones used on a candy bar phone on a flip phone. Can anyone help me out on this?




Of course anything is possible, but if this IS another light source reflected in the picture, it is coincidentally placed PERFECTLY over the flash of the phone being used to take the photo (or, if the phone being used doesn't have a flash, the light just happens to be where a flash would originate).



Yes, belimom: This is the closest I was able to find to the phone from the photo of KM on the "Missing" poster.




If JC is the responsible party, I would suggest a scenario somewhere along the following lines:

JC returns to the townhouse alone after murdering/disposing of KM. He rushes inside with her purse and keys and, while putting them back in their normal places (and possibly dealing with the dog), the idea that a photo of a hard copy of a photo that can be found in KM's bedroom, sent to his phone from hers later by text message, establishes that she was alive and well and in her bedroom while he was with friends at the time the photo is sent to his phone. A photograph from inside KM's home and sent to him elsewhere would be far more valuable than a simple text -- which could be typed by anyone, anywhere, at any time.

However, JC realizes that instead of carrying KM's phone inside the townhouse with him along with her purse and keys (which are being replaced, again, in an effort to cover himself and to create the illusion that KM's townhouse is the site of an abduction by a random stranger sometime after the photo text was sent/while he was out with his friends), he has left her phone in his car (whether by accident or because he knows he'll need to take it with him) -- but he has his phone in his pocket.

Now, panicked, his "photo text" idea in his mind, he can either run back out to his car to grab KM's cell, but decides that instead of risking arousing suspicion by rushing in and out of the house more than once, he'll simply take the photo NOW with his phone and "deal with it later" after he has left the townhouse and is in the clear. At which point he can simply send the photo from his phone to KM's phone, save it to her phone, and delete 1.) this simple text exchange and 2.) the photo from HIS phone. He can then simply wait until plenty of time has passed and then, long after he has established an alibi with a friend or friends -- around, oh, let's say, 12:52 -- send the photo FROM Katelyn's phone TO his own phone. None of this would be difficult to do -- it would take mere seconds -- and it would all be done this way because it HAD to be done this way: because none of this was premeditated, everything is messy/complicated.

I'm talking about a scenario where the use of the perp's phone is by necessity, not by choice.

And, unless JC has been planning this for a while, isn't messy/complicated the likely quality of his actions following something so earth-shattering as a murder?



I very respectfully disagree. I believe, in JC's mind following the murder of KM, a photograph of a photograph located in KM's bedroom, taken in KM's bedroom, and sent from her phone to his phone well after he has established an alibi with friends, goes a lot further toward making him look innocent than a simple text message, which ANYONE could type from ANY LOCATION.





Again, I want to reiterate my proposal here: that if the phone reflected in the photograph is in fact the responsible's phone, it was a mistake on his part, NOT a well-thought out, planned action.

Of course, anything is possible here. It's just as likely that all this "picture of a picture" business was perfectly harmless, and has little or nothing to do with the case; maybe KM took the photo herself weeks or months ago and didn't get around to sending it to JC until that night. Who knows? I don't claim to have any answers here -- I'm filled with questions when it comes to this particular aspect of the case (as well as most of the rest of it, as we all are). My original goal was to simply see if I could make out any reflections of objects the flash may have illuminated in the photo; after recognizing that a phone was partially visible, I simply hoped to recognize the phone reflected in the photo as KM's. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to eliminate this or anything else as a possibility (always my goal, rather than to dream up theories and try to sell people on them), because the phone reflected in the photo does not match any BlackBerry I've seen to this point.

Dime - I forgot to look at it on my phone. I will do that in the am as I am wiped out. Or you could text it to me! LOL
But, can you take a pic of what you and your friend are seeing? Could be your screen size is just perfect to show it?

As to you premeditated theory - I can see it as possible. He might have even really loved that photo and wanted a copy of it, knowing her belongings would stay with her father...........or he could have felt she was having an affair with the taker of the photo (or that person talked trash on him, etc) and wanted it for symbolism. In your example, he might have snapped the pic when he locked the dog in the room?

A person too tired to go to the 'burning' would not have been up sending a pic of a pic. (Notice JC tries to call it her art, but really it was her bosses)

Okay.........falling over. Nights all, someone get the lights behind me.
 
Im so confused!!! BUT the NG crew would have had to film the picture of the picture, no????? I think that is what a prior poster was alluding to....
Firstly, we DON'T know that this is the "picture" received at 12:52 and secondly, if it is, we don't know how the pic was manipulated afterwards in order to get it to NG. So, I dunno..... I'm not putting a whole lot of faith in the "reflection" at this point. :(

I stated early on in my original post on this subject:

"Though this hasn't been confirmed..."

and

"Assuming this photo was indeed KM's final text..."

Again, so much of this is based on things we simply don't know at this point. The only reason I went ahead and mentioned it at all is because I can see the reflection of a phone in the photograph, which I found interesting and worth sharing. Maybe that phone belongs to some assistant on the Nancy Grace show, sure. We simply don't know. And I would rather mention it and have someone help me eliminate possibilities than just sit on it and wonder.

Like I said, it may very well be nothing of interest. I try very hard to focus on facts only, and to ignore/eliminate anything that is not based on fact. In this case, I'm just guessing on a lot of things, which I don't normally do; the sole reason I am even talking about this is because it is a FACT that there is a cell phone illuminated by the flash and reflected in that photograph. I do not know, or claim to know, who the owner of that phone is. I simply thought it was worth mentioning.
 
thanks, dime detective but here's my question:

What if this friend of his where he eventually wound up after leaving Katelyn's to burn the documents actually lives 45 min. away from her townhouse? Let's say he is ready to send the photo of Katelyn to his cell phone once he gets settled in at his friend's house. Wouldn't detectives be able to tell from the "ping" from Katelyn's cell phone that the photo message was NOT sent from the area of her townhouse but instead it was sent from the location of JC's friend's house?

Most definitely, janitor.

But couldn't JC also have purposely chosen to visit friends who live nearby for this very reason? Maybe. If he knows about "pings" and such things.

Or isn't it possible that JC left his friends and went home (0.2 miles from KM's townhouse) a lot earlier than he says? Would his friends cover for him? Maybe.
 
It definitely was worth mentioning and it definitely occupied MY time for a good hour (or 2)!! It has definitely been explored by LE (I hope!) Just too many variables at this point (for me) is all.....
Thanks for all the efforts of everyone in this forum!! :seeya:
Never know WHEN our musings will lead to a real theory!!

ETA: OR should i say THE theory of what REALLY happened ;-)
 
Very true, Dime. It's all so fascinating, isn't it? I've never witnessed a case quite like this one with a "person of interest" who is, to put it delicately, so very uh..um.."odd"?

I think they called in the "cyber police" on this case and know a whole helluva lot more than they're letting on. They are lining all of their ducks up in a row and moving in for the kill. They just want a detailed, written statement from JC to compare with his original statement that he gave a day after her disappearance. Coupled with all of the other circumstantial evidence they've gathered, they will call him in for a final interrogation and confront him with all of the evidence that will prove that he's been lying to them all along on almost every single count. At that point he will either break down and confess or he will ask for an attorney.

At one time, I felt pretty sure that the guy is not sociopathic but now I'm not so sure. Listening to him in that interview really affected me. If he did have something to do with Katelyn's disappearance I don't think he feels a bit remorseful for what he has done. He came across as feeling very detached and comfortable discussing a horrific situation without any visible signs of emotion. The type of person who would be able to pull something like this off would have to be very "cold".
 
DimeDetective- you are killing my sleep - LOL

So, I can see something, but not sure what. I took a pic of my phone - can you mark my pic where you see it in paint?
011-1.jpg
 
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