OH - Larry Mugrage, 15, fatally shot, Batavia, 19 March 2006

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Details said:
Very limited information - I've heard nothing about the boy's character, actions, not to mention if he really did ever get friends to also walk on the guy's lawn (he assumes the kid did so - that's not proof at all that he really did), from anyone other than the old man - obviously very biased and not balanced. The poor parents seem too shocked and sad to defend their son. Or maybe the media just isn't interested in that.

With no sidewalks, it is typical that you walk on the lawn - the road is for the cars, the lawns are for the pedestrians.

Oh yes - I am a property owner (is it so hard to believe that people can have similar situations and different beliefs?:rolleyes: ) - and people walk all the time on my grass - I'm right next to a park - they shortcut across my lawn to the park! Could be annoying maybe - doesn't actually harm the grass, doesn't bug me - but if it did, I'd put up a little fence. Now what I really hate is when the kids play baseball in the park, using my fence as a backstop, which means that whenever the ball goes a bit high, it hits the house. I've had to go and ask them several times to knock it off. Nothing to kill over, nor threaten, nor whatever. At the worst, I might not let them go into the back yard to retrieve their ball (but I usually do anyway). Give me 20 years of the same behavior, and I still can't understand killing over even that! No matter how many of my pretty darn expensive cool windows are damaged or broken (pretty much my prize posession of my house).
It could be that you are well balanced. Just a thought.
 
Yep, by definition, pretty much, you can't really understand an irrational mind if you are rational. Because they aren't rational. It's not about the lawn, it's about this guy being a nut job. It could be the way the boy's hair is worn (frakin' hippie kid), how fast he drives on the street (even within the speed limit - just ask my husband about a nutty neighbor and that), or whatever other unbalanced, irrational murderous anger spark happened.
 
This case really upsets me. Mostly of course the result.

I know how vicious kids can be.
And I know how upsetting it can be to an elderly person.

People get pushed over the edge. It happens all the time. Take road rage for an example. It just doesn't take much for some people. If there is any truth in the harassment going on for 5 years, then this is unfortunately is the result. We all know about the capabilities of our neighbors kids making our lives miserable. Whether is just noise or messes they leave behind, or destroying things on our property.
 
It's amazing how people can become obsessed. There's a kindergarten not too far away from me and when parents are picking dropping off or picking up their children they occasionally block the driveway of this old couples' home. Now all these old people do is spend their time looking out the window lest someone occupy their driveway for a few seconds. I just can't understand why if it is so upsetting they just don't pack up and move.
 
That is strange, you would think they would enjoy the activity. Certainly would beat watching the cars just drive by. As far as moving, most elderly are on fixed incomes and can't just pack up and move. T
 
People sometimes seem to get obsessed with being mad at something - they need something to fight, something to be outraged about, someone to feel morally superior to. They'd probably have nothing to talk about to each other or their friends if they moved away from the school.
 
There are no sidewalks in the neighborhood.

Very interesting little tidbit of info in the recent posted link.It kindly puts the understanders of the old man between a rock and a hard place I believe.Tell me would it be wiser for a kid to be ran over in the street or to step in some old dudes yard?I feel confident that as more and more details of this case are revealed,it will become quite apparent the old man was a cold blooded killer.....despite the bst efforts of those who "understand"him.
 
proadvocate said:
I feel confident that as more and more details of this case are revealed,it will become quite apparent the old man was a cold blooded killer.....despite the bst efforts of those who "understand"him.
I can quite clearly "understand" him - and the frustrations he may have felt - but that still makes him a cold-blooded killer.
 
Hi Beyond Belief,

The case is upsetting to me too, I'm trying to learn from the "if onlys" in it (on both sides.)

If only the old man had put up a fence, but maybe he didn't have the money for that. If only he had put up no trespassing signs, but how do you enforce that? The one article says this:

>>"It's been going on for five years," he said. "I've been being harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up."

He added: "Kids just been giving me a bunch of (deleted), making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up."<<

Also...
>>There is no official documentation of a dispute, but Gaviglia said officers remember twice talking with Martin about neighbor disputes.

In 2002, Martin called police because some weed killer had been sprayed on his lawn and he was upset, Gaviglia said.

In September 2003, Martin went to the police station and said he wanted to speak to an officer about neighborhood problems.<<

People have said, "Why didn't he call the police." But he went, he discussed with them, and perhaps he was told what we were when our neighbor dumped nails in our easement, put a chain across it, dumped gravel in the middle of it. When they cut off the electric and water to our tank. "This is a civil issue." i.e. take it to court. If you don't have the means for that - what can you do? There is no use going to the police over and over when they have already told you your only choice. You will only hear the same thing again.

If only the old man had thrown it in and moved...but he may not have had the means or the courage. Or maybe, at his age, he felt bullied...and dug his feet in.

If only the old man would have given up caring about the property OR offered to make a footpath shortcut across it. If only he would have called someone to take him for a drive when he was obsessing over the problem (he obviously had an obsessive streak.) If only he had called someone to come and get his guns when he started having stupid thoughts. If only he had gotten a counselor or friend to let him vent and help him balance his thinking or offer him ideas of what to do to help with this? If only he had shot into the ground only.

In one news article a few people were quoted:
>>Neighbor Joanne Ritchie, 46, said Mugrage was known as "a good kid," and that she always considered Martin to be friendly.

"The older gentleman was always riding his bike and tending to his yard," she said. "He would wave at kids and adults. He always had the perfect yard and he worked in it a lot."

Sean Fritts, 16, who also lived nearby, agreed that Martin's lawn was his pride and joy.

"He was real protective over his yard and mowed it a lot, and sometimes even measured the grass with a yardstick," Fritts said.

Still, Fritts said he wasn't aware of any disputes involving Martin.

"I never had any problems with him, and I don't know that anyone else did," he said.<<

Yet...today...
Newspaper article

>>After a Clermont County public defender requested bond on the aggravated murder charge, Assistant Clermont County Prosecutor Darrell Hawkins suggested the high dollar amount, saying Martin is dangerous.

"(Mugrage's) family is fearful for their lives," Hawkins said. "He has made threats to their lives before.<<

Evidently the Mugrage's have stated that he has threatened their lives. At this point in time, there is certainly no doubt that Martin is dangerous and shouldn't be released (bond of 2M was set.) If he cracked once to the extent that he did, no way.

But who was a witness to either the harrassment to Martin or the threat to the Mugrage's? The neighbors interviewed so far seem to think that all was well, though at least one said Martin was odd. Picking off birds with a BB gun seems odd to some, but not to certain rural people - to them it is a natural way to control pests. But...the neighbor who said he was odd said, "I just stayed away from him."

Martin broke down...would he have done it anyway? Did he have Alzheimer's? Did a doctor or family member see this coming and do nothing? But what could they have done? Did the man have friends to laugh with, to help him to lighten up? Did his world become so small...it obviously did.

And on the other side, there are also many if onlys...

Too sad... I thought about one or the other of these people moving. I wondered if they had disclosure laws.

The most horrible of damage has been done and can never be fixed, but I'm trying to figure out what I can learn from this personally (as an older person) and what I can teach my grandchildren.

Wrinkles
 
People ard their lawn obsessions
True story: My riding lawnmover was stuck in first. I crossed the property line went around a neighbors bush and back into my yard. He came out and read me the riot act. His wife apologized that it was his high blood pressure talking. He was MAD. High blood pressure or not.

Learning lessons from the information we have been given is difficult. Its a really "you had to be there" sort of thing. The main thing that stands out is "leave people alone" or you might get yourself shot. People flip out every day over all types of situations. Young people need to learn early to avoid situations that can blow up in your face.
 
PS. Trying to understand anything about this, trying to learn from it, doesn't change the fact that it was murder. It doesn't excuse it. It was wrong, the worst type of wrong.
 
Hello Proadvocate,

I thought about the walking on the street today and went back and looked at the picture in this thread. I was trying to see if there was a walkway (dirt shoulder or low grass) near the street - it seemed there was...but it was really hard to tell. I also thought about the 16 year old quoted in the news article that he never had trouble with Martin, did he or any of the other children get chastised for walking on the grass? Did they have a problem with Martin in this way?

Again...it doesn't justify murder...but I wondered.

Wrinkles
 
This is a link to the 911 call with the swearing by Martin deleted.



9News was told that Mugrage was a straight-A student, loved to play soccer and was well-liked by his neighbors.

His parents, Larry and Anita Mugrage, were out of town in Marietta, Ohio, at a family reunion when the shooting occurred. A court appearance is set for Monday and the case is expected to be presented to a Clermont County grand jury on Wednesday.
 
Hiya Dark Shadows,

Thanks for posting that link. I tried to find some articles today that might give us some more information, maybe direct quotes from people. I didn't find much.

I did trip across another forum where the topic was being discussed. It was somewhat parallel to that which was discussed here.

I also found this page
discussing the bond being set.

Have you figured out the main news sources for that area yet? These appear to be two of them.

http://www.wcpo.com
http://news.enquirer.com

Here's the Union Township Administration page:

http://www.union-township.oh.us/

It seems like there might be more news, I'm wondering if it is just too painful, or just too sensitive a situation at this point, or what.

Wrinkles
 
Hi Wrinkles,

You are up late:).I got out of work a short time ago and not alot of people are around at this time.
I want to thank-you for posting the link for funeral donations earlier.Also thank-you for posting the links that you just posted.
Respectfully,D.S.
 
Hi DS,

I had to laugh...I was thinking, hey wait...doesn't DS live on the east coast, gosh he is up late! (or early!)

Well you just got off work and are probably ready to hit the racks, I'm up late and headed in the same direction. :) Just trying to get tired enough!

Wrinkles
 
Wrinkles said:
Hi DS,

I had to laugh...I was thinking, hey wait...doesn't DS live on the east coast, gosh he is up late! (or early!)
Wrinkles,you mean she:).

Wrinkles said:
Well you just got off work and are probably ready to hit the racks, I'm up late and headed in the same direction. :) Just trying to get tired enough!

Wrinkles
I will be up for a little while and then I am hoping for a good sleep.(2nd shift work)You have yourself a good sleep.
Respecfully,D.S.
 
Anyone ...

Check out this picture ...

Doe it look like Martin has a tumor on his neck near his Adam's Apple or in the area of his thyroid (this would be the left side of his neck)? Does it look like he has had radiation treatment, maybe skin damage from it? Does it look like he has a scar in that area? (perhaps under the bulge, is there an incision mark?

Look at this view of his neck...

Aside from his looking dead inside, he looks fairly old for 66 - fairly unhealthy, drawn, eyes sunken in... My 78 year old parents look healthier.

W

PS. ACK! Sorry about the gender mess up DS
 
Another news source for that area:
http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=4660806&nav=0zHF

Is the bulge Goiter (click on the enlargement)?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/goiter/DS00217

Hmmm....
http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE10F.html

Is this possible? Maybe? Maybe not?
>>The Thyroid and the Mind and Emotions
The psychiatric disturbances which accompany hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism, the two commonest thyroid disorders, mimic mental illness. People with an overactive thyroid may exhibit marked anxiety and tension, emotional lability, impatience and irritability, distractible overactivity, exaggerated sensitivity to noise, and fluctuating depression with sadness and problems with sleep and the appetite. In extreme cases, they may appear schizophrenic, losing touch with reality and becoming delirious or hallucinating. An underactive thyroid can lead to progressive loss of interest and initiative, slowing of mental processes, poor memory for recent events, fading of the personality's colour and vivacity, general intellectual deterioration, depression with a paranoid flavour, and eventually, if not checked, to dementia and permanent harmful effects on the brain. In instances of each condition, some persons have been wrongly diagnosed, hospitalized for months, and treated unsuccessfully for psychosis.<<
 
Hello Wrinkles,I am a Correctional Officer,not a doctor,but we have had a couple of inmates that have had masses on their neck that look like the photo and they had Osteoarthitos and the swelling depends on the weather,amount of pain and so on.

Also some have had a whiplash type injury,a neck accident,cronic injury from over use (Martin worked for Ford so he could have had a job that entails repetative movements during his work hours.)He could have had a herniated disc.(discs are soft nerves).Some of the inmates have had gout from alcohol or medication abuse.
 

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