VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[Skully67]

Which witnesses? BCI? Family dynamics? Jake & Angela?

Family. JW, AW, BA, TC, GW4.

If I were a juror, I personally wouldn't see a need to see crime photos, gun stuff, bullet stuff, shoe stuff, etc. Those things are background noise to me. Necessary to show the event happened, but not evidence of GW4 involvement. In my opinion.

This is a circumstantial case. We have no direct evidence, I believe.

All this is my opinion.

 

[Willow Knight]

Yes your right but GW4 helped move those bodies that night also, JMO

I absolutely believe George 4 was there the night of the murders with his brother and father. What I am thinking is they did prove George 4 was involved at the very least. Not that George 4 actually shot anyone, it wouldn't matter at this point. JW placed him at the crime scenes, AW saw him leave and return with JW and their father. AW states she spoke with George 4 in the planning and after the crime. Beth places George 4 in conversations regarding the murders. JW also has George 4 destroying the murder weapons. (hiding, breaking down, etc)

That is 3 separate people. Eye and ear witnesses.

I get the impression some people may believe it must be proven George 4 actually pulled the trigger to be found guilty. I hope the jury understands this was a conspiracy.

All this is my opinion.

 

[Willow Knight]

Imagine what all that evidence, photos, audio tapes & transcripts of 47 days of testimony looks like in the jury room.

Now imagine YOU are the jury foreman, where do you start?

After a vote I would start with the family dynamics. (how they work and plan together) Then I would begin with JW's testimony to wage how it fits with the forensics and timeline. Some examples: Jake gave a timeline of who was murdered first, then down the line. It matches forensics theory, IMO. Jake knew where everyone was at when they were murdered, to me this proves he was there. He knew details of which guns were used, the vehicles involved, Dana on her cell phone.

 

[Pru2U]

Family. JW, AW, BA, TC, GW4.

If I were a juror, I personally wouldn't see a need to see crime photos, gun stuff, bullet stuff, shoe stuff, etc. Those things are background noise to me. Necessary to show the event happened, but not evidence of GW4 involvement. In my opinion.

This is a circumstantial case. We have no direct evidence, I believe.

All this is my opinion.

Thanks.

I don't think I would want to be foreman, but I know I'd be wanting to read through & try to understand all the charges & instructions. I would love to get my hands on that right now.

I think instead of a vote, maybe go around the table, introduce ourselves and each name one thing that stuck out or that they've been wanting to talk about but couldn't. Kinda get a feel on what struck people as important & go from there. I would be bursting to talk about the family dynamics, but I would try to keep it focused on George's role, how family affected him, what (or who) influenced him or what/who did he influence. The trial itself was a whole lot of JW & AW, I think that could spill into jury room so it would be really important to keep bringing focus back to George.
JMO

 

[Betty P]

I have a feeling most of the jurors know the Wagner family and know they’re habitual criminals and liars. After they violently murdered 8 innocent people, they probably look forward to having them permanently locked away.

What a menace they’ve been to the community, to local businesses and the economy. GW4 didn’t seem at all bothered or apologetic about his lifetime of criminal behavior.

The amount of poaching, arson and theft they’ve committed is staggering. I still don’t understand how they got away with so much insurance fraud.

 

[molly1255]

I absolutely believe George 4 was there the night of the murders with his brother and father. What I am thinking is they did prove George 4 was involved at the very least. Not that George 4 actually shot anyone, it wouldn't matter at this point. JW placed him at the crime scenes, AW saw him leave and return with JW and their father. AW states she spoke with George 4 in the planning and after the crime. Beth places George 4 in conversations regarding the murders. JW also has George 4 destroying the murder weapons. (hiding, breaking down, etc)

That is 3 separate people. Eye and ear witnesses.

I get the impression some people may believe it must be proven George 4 actually pulled the trigger to be found guilty. I hope the jury understands this was a conspiracy.

All this is my opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree. The case against GW is a conspiracy case. IMO, the evidence against him for conspiracy is overwhelming, especially when his own mother and brother have testified against him. JMO

 

[molly1255]

I have a feeling most of the jurors know the Wagner family and know they’re habitual criminals and liars. After they violently murdered 8 innocent people, they probably look forward to having them permanently locked away.

What a menace they’ve been to the community, to local businesses and the economy. GW4 didn’t seem at all bothered or apologetic about his lifetime of criminal behavior.

The amount of poaching, arson and theft they’ve committed is staggering. I still don’t understand how they got away with so much insurance fraud.

I echo your sentiments. I can't imagine that anyone on the jury, all residents of Pike County, would be willing to take a chance on GW and set him free. In addition to not seeming to be apologetic at all by his own lifetime of criminal behavior, he also doesn't seem to feel anything whatsoever toward the innocent murder victims, their families or his niece.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

So if Bullvine was supposed to be poison at the border by The BCI, why did Billy, Angela and George himself set in the vehicle for over an hour waiting on Jake and Suds to come out from there interview????

G3 knew his wife and kept the vehicle in place. AW made accusations about EA poisoning her ice cubes for Pete's sake. Idk they kept children in interrogation rooms. Odd. If so, 'vine never left his father's side either. AW has some serious stability issues.

 

[pcrum12]

Last comment on this from me about whether Audio of George at the border. Video at Day 21 part 2 L&C at 52:10 it starts and another poster posted that link as well at last thread post #858. Ryan explained that by law it is REQUIRED to Audio (at least) record the interviews. Period! IMO if there was no Audio of George, that could be a technicality to get this case thrown out. And Ryan clearly states they did Audio record the interviews. IANAL but I believe there's Audio of George's Interview for these reasons. I would need to HEAR this audio that Angela C kept referencing to George but would not PLAY nor would she provide him the TRANSCRIPT when he defended what she said he said by saying "that's not what I said" (my words but to that effect). If I need it, I think some on the jury may need it too. My opinion at this point is he may not have been involved in the planning and he may not have been involved in the execution - I find it hard to believe he didn't know about it after the fact but I don't think that has been proven IMO. And I think that by law he is not required to rat out a family member. I see reasonable doubt. By who am I? I'm not on the jury so we shall see. IANAL IANAL IANAL IMO IMO IMO. HA HA

 

[Pru2U]

Last comment on this from me about whether Audio of George at the border. Video at Day 21 part 2 L&C at 52:10 it starts and another poster posted that link as well at last thread post #858. Ryan explained that by law it is REQUIRED to Audio (at least) record the interviews. Period! IMO if there was no Audio of George, that could be a technicality to get this case thrown out. And Ryan clearly states they did Audio record the interviews. IANAL but I believe there's Audio of George's Interview for these reasons. I would need to HEAR this audio that Angela C kept referencing to George but would not PLAY nor would she provide him the TRANSCRIPT when he defended what she said he said by saying "that's not what I said" (my words but to that effect). If I need it, I think some on the jury may need it too. My opinion at this point is he may not have been involved in the planning and he may not have been involved in the execution - I find it hard to believe he didn't know about it after the fact but I don't think that has been proven IMO. And I think that by law he is not required to rat out a family member. I see reasonable doubt. By who am I? I'm not on the jury so we shall see. IANAL IANAL IANAL IMO IMO IMO. HA HA

Your rational input is important, though. We’ve got some here who are adamant GW was 100% all in, some think only partially, some are pondering reasonable doubt and several are adamant he wasn’t involved at all. It’s a possible glimpse into early jury room deliberations.

I say “possible glimpse” because so many here have been following this case for years, some since the first day. I think that makes a big difference. The jury “should” have less of a pre-conceived notion. Much less. We’ve also seen and heard a lot go on in the courtroom they weren’t privy to.

 

[Niner]

So who interviewed GW4 and do we know if we have audio. Ryan's testimony didn't seem to be specific about GW4s interview, but only his interview with his subject.

From my notes I have a West Chester Police Capt. Seth Hagaman who questioned GW4 on 2017 when he was with the BCI. Do not know IF he questioned GW4 at the border though. He was subpoenaed by the defense.

Do not know IF this is the guy who interviewed him at the border - was it in 2017?


So - the Judge said there would be hearings next without the jury. Anyone seen any dates on those? TIA!

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[Cool Cats]

Imagine what all that evidence, photos, audio tapes & transcripts of 47 days of testimony looks like in the jury room.

Now imagine YOU are the jury foreman, where do you start?

Order doughnuts in the morning and pizza in the afternoon/evening and tons of coffee for everyone then start putting all the evidence together showing George was in on the murder conspiracy and went that night, then explain he is a menace to society.

He was in on the murder conspiracy and never stopped it. He would never have missed 5 months of murder planning and getting ready. He was in on every single family decision, especially one as important and risky as this. He would not have been left out of this.

Late night party George asleep at 10:00pm that night, no way. At border he was saying he was up till midnight watching movies.

If he walks I will be pissed off royally at the prosecution for not proving it's Case. My only hope then will be they at least get Billy.

We still have Billy.

 

[Pru2U]

Order doughnuts and tons of coffee for everyone then start putting all the evidence together showing George was in on the murder conspiracy and went that night, then explain he is a menace to society.

He was in on the murder conspiracy and never stopped it.

That made me smile! No prejudice there at all.

 

[rsd1200]

What about the evidence of the meeting at the breakfast table, going to steal a bulldozer and make it bulletproof, then break all the other family members out of jail, once out of jail punishment to Mike DeWine, Charles Reader and Ryan Sherider and who ever witness this said GW4 was the loudest, Makes you wonder, if GEORGE WAGNER goes free, who will the next person be that he robbed, hurts or maybe kills????

Rant. Yes, a bulletproof bulldozer is on every corner, at every car lot. I can barely resist them. Honestly, where is he gonna get a bulldozer and bulletproof it? Bulldozers are pretty bulletproof in and of themselves. G4 is a ranter.

 

[TopHat123]

Lurker, first post
George is charged with murder plus about 20 other things related to the case. If there’s a hung jury or if they find him not guilty in the first charge for (*I think* the jury’s options are Murder 1, Murder 2 or Manslaughter), can’t they still find him guilty on some (or all, or most) of those other counts? In which case he’d likely get sentenced to time in prison (minus time served, I’d think),
Because if the jury members can’t agree if he did any literal murdering, they could “compromise” by finding him guilty of many of those other charge, is that right?

 

[rsd1200]

Imagine what all that evidence, photos, audio tapes & transcripts of 47 days of testimony looks like in the jury room.

Now imagine YOU are the jury foreman, where do you start?

I'd start by taking an initial vote. See what we have in the way of mindset, and start from there. If there's only one or two on the fence, they'll drag them over. He's going away, guilty of conspiracy or not.

 

[Pru2U]

@Cool Cats

Apparently the estimate for transcripts came in at $4 per page (est. $6,000 for just Jake & Angela's testimony).
Angenette Levy is talking about starting a crowd source (like Go fund me) so the transcripts can be posted on line.

I don't keep up with Twitter but I'll try to keep an eye out for a link to post & maybe others here can too.

 

[Skully67]

Last comment on this from me about whether Audio of George at the border. Video at Day 21 part 2 L&C at 52:10 it starts and another poster posted that link as well at last thread post #858. Ryan explained that by law it is REQUIRED to Audio (at least) record the interviews. Period! IMO if there was no Audio of George, that could be a technicality to get this case thrown out. And Ryan clearly states they did Audio record the interviews. IANAL but I believe there's Audio of George's Interview for these reasons. I would need to HEAR this audio that Angela C kept referencing to George but would not PLAY nor would she provide him the TRANSCRIPT when he defended what she said he said by saying "that's not what I said" (my words but to that effect). If I need it, I think some on the jury may need it too. My opinion at this point is he may not have been involved in the planning and he may not have been involved in the execution - I find it hard to believe he didn't know about it after the fact but I don't think that has been proven IMO. And I think that by law he is not required to rat out a family member. I see reasonable doubt. By who am I? I'm not on the jury so we shall see. IANAL IANAL IANAL IMO IMO IMO. HA HA

I agree with you. I would want to hear that interview. What I don't understand is how Canepa could reference it in her questioning without it being in evidence.

 

[Pru2U]

Lurker, first post
George is charged with murder plus about 20 other things related to the case. If there’s a hung jury or if they find him not guilty in the first charge for (*I think* the jury’s options are Murder 1, Murder 2 or Manslaughter), can’t they still find him guilty on some (or all, or most) of those other counts? In which case he’d likely get sentenced to time in prison (minus time served, I’d think),
Because if the jury members can’t agree if he did any literal murdering, they could “compromise” by finding him guilty of many of those other charge, is that right?

Welcome!

Yes they can.

The charges include:
8 counts of Aggravated Murder
Felony conspiracy
Aggravated burglary
Unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance
Tampering with evidence
Forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire and oral communications
Obstruction of justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity