VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[pcrum12]

If the prosecution had it, then the defense had it and George already read it. The prosecution must hand over everything they have to the defense in discovery.
JMO

I know this. That's my point. AC wrangling didn't work and IMO it was BS because she didn't back it up with the known way to prove what he said in the interview versus on the stand.

 

[pcrum12]

IMO, the strongest charge against George is #22, the Conspiracy Charge. That is the integral charge that connects the other 21 charges together. And I do believe that is the charge that will bring him down, he was clearly a part of a long exisiting family conspiracy. IMO that has been proven in court.

Prosecution has never needed to do anything more than link him to his participation in that life-long conspiracy. In fact, they did much more with evidence and JW's & AW's testimony. Not only did the evidence and Jake and Angie confirm George's integral part in the long time family conspiracy but Jake's testimony also placed him at the scene of the crimes.

To charge him as part of a conspiracy, the Prosecution has had to build a strong case that he was in fact an integral part of a well defined conspiracy. That is why the evidence and testimony of JW and AW is so relevant and has dominated the trial so far.

IMO, whether he shot anyone or not, he was 100% part of his family's conspiracy and had been for all of his life.

All for one, one for all. Let them all go down forever.

JMO





JMO

Oh I agree he was enmeshed and guilty of conspiracy with his family on tons of other crimes. It was admitted on the stand. But, we must not allow prior acts sway opinion on this act. IANAL so just my uneducated thoughts.

 

[pcrum12]

JW’s proffer was coached to fit the evidence. AW’s too.

totally agree. IMO not hard to see the states Offer being no deal unless you give us George. And JW saying only if you take the DP off for all will I do that. That's how I can wrap my brain around JW and AW saying George there if he wasn't - to save his life in other words.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks. I did not see this part where the families said:

"AC talked about how the family wasn't sure they could handle the burden of 4 consecutive trials, possibly held in different parts of the state, year after year. They couldn't bear the stress and expense"

I'll check again, later today. I was trying to find the YouTube video of that hearing. All my searches keep pulling up articles about Jake's latest testimony. It's towards the end of that 2021 hearing when AC talks about the family approving of his plea agreement. She talks about the reasons why the prosecution agreed to a plea deal with Jake. IIRC, overall, it was a comprehensive deal that could include all the Wagners, or at least that was my perception of it.

Here you go. Video of Jake's April 2021 hearing.

 

[rsd1200]

Prosecution did it for the families, they told the families all about it beforehand. Jake came clean when his trial was only 4 months away not because of any anniversary. Prosecution got everything out of him they could then also consulted with the families and the families agreed with the plea deal, then the prosecution picked the 5th anniversary deliberately for the families to get some justice on a very significant date.

On Fifth Anniversary Of Horrific Pike County Murders, Jake Wagner Pleads Guilty
Prosecutor Junk said it was no coincidence they were in court for the guilty plea on this anniversary.
While members of the Rhoden family did not immediately react, Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk said, “This has been a long time coming. They’re happy to get some justice, especially on this particular day.”
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/state/2021/04/22/jake-wagner-rhoden-family-homicides-pike-county-ohio-pleads-guilty/7333052002/
Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk said the families of the victims agreed to the plea agreement.
Rhoden, Gilley and Manley families 'happy to get some justice'
"This has been a long time coming," Junk said. "They're happy to get some justice, especially on this particular day," he said of the Rhoden, Gilley and Manley families.

My original post referred to the fact that had they not had him they'd had no case. Period. And yes, JW had told his lawyers he was guilty well before he told the prosecution. I think he waited, on purpose, and not for some divine intervention from his grandmother's decision to be honest. The prosecution, since they selected that date wanted a splash with their new star witness. Groomed and ready. The point of the post was:

rsd1200 said:
AC said they didn't need him either but w/o him how would they have found the buckets in the pond? Maybe eons later. Without his testimony, how'd they have found the truck? Without his testimony, they had zip. He gave it all up to keep from dying b/c he said he knows he's going to hell when he dies. He's self-centered, and the fav of the family. Do you think it was happenstance he confessed on the anniversary of the murders? No. No way.

That last line has nothing to do with making or breaking the case at all, It was just my opinion of how awful JW could be but since it was the prosecution, it even lowers my respect for the lead prosecutor and it could get no lower for Junk. JM2

 

[TopHat123]

Remember when Nicole Brown Simpson & her friend were brutally murdered (I’m showing my age now!) & then they saiid OJ was arrested for the crimes? OJ. All I knew about OJ were the rental car commercials, his football commentary & the hapless character he played in those Naked Gun movies & wasn’t he just a friendly, fun, mild-mannered kind of guy?
Then I heard the audio of him ranting, raving & raging at her. Quelle surprise! He has an ugly side. A violent side. And further revelations supported that. OJ, we hardly knew you.
My point is- pay attention to what these defendants say when their masks are off.
And although I didn’t hear the audio of those conversations (I joined this discussion in the last week of this trial- duh! & now I’m kicking myself for missing out on hearing them), from everything I’ve read, George did plenty of screaming on them. What he said OFF the witness stand matters to me just as much (maybe more) as his testimony. I’m not sure if that’s fair, but if I were on the jury, I’d pay particular attention to those conversations.
PS-
If there’s any way I can listen to the surveillance tapes online? I’d like to hear them. It might change my opinion. Because I feel like George was in on the murders up to his eyeballs, but from watching him testify I can’t pinpoint any “GOTCHA” moments.

 

[rsd1200]

Remember when Nicole Brown Simpson & her friend were brutally murdered (I’m showing my age now!) & then they saiid OJ was arrested for the crimes? OJ. All I knew about OJ were the rental car commercials, his football commentary & the hapless character he played in those Naked Gun movies & wasn’t he just a friendly, fun, mild-mannered kind of guy?
Then I heard the audio of him ranting, raving & raging at her. Quelle surprise! He has an ugly side. A violent side. And further revelations supported that. OJ, we hardly knew you.
My point is- pay attention to what these defendants say when their masks are off.
And although I didn’t hear the audio of those conversations (I joined this discussion in the last week of this trial- duh! & now I’m kicking myself for missing out on hearing them), from everything I’ve read, George did plenty of screaming on them. What he said OFF the witness stand matters to me just as much (maybe more) as his testimony. I’m not sure if that’s fair, but if I were on the jury, I’d pay particular attention to those conversations.
PS-
If there’s any way I can listen to the surveillance tapes online? I’d like to hear them. It might change my opinion. Because I feel like George was in on the murders up to his eyeballs, but from watching him testify I can’t pinpoint any “GOTCHA” moments.

The truck tapes and wiretaps are all on Youtube under Wcpo9 or Law and Crime. They have the trial in order. There is only one LEO interview of George and they never played it in court. It was an audio interview at the border of MT. They never brought the agent who interviewed him to state otherwise, to what G4 testified to on the last day either. I remember the OJ trial. I watched it all from the chase to the acquittal. Then he wrote a book; If I Did It. He did it.

 

[Pru2U]

Remember when Nicole Brown Simpson & her friend were brutally murdered (I’m showing my age now!) & then they saiid OJ was arrested for the crimes? OJ. All I knew about OJ were the rental car commercials, his football commentary & the hapless character he played in those Naked Gun movies & wasn’t he just a friendly, fun, mild-mannered kind of guy?
Then I heard the audio of him ranting, raving & raging at her. Quelle surprise! He has an ugly side. A violent side. And further revelations supported that. OJ, we hardly knew you.
My point is- pay attention to what these defendants say when their masks are off.
And although I didn’t hear the audio of those conversations (I joined this discussion in the last week of this trial- duh! & now I’m kicking myself for missing out on hearing them), from everything I’ve read, George did plenty of screaming on them. What he said OFF the witness stand matters to me just as much (maybe more) as his testimony. I’m not sure if that’s fair, but if I were on the jury, I’d pay particular attention to those conversations.
PS-
If there’s any way I can listen to the surveillance tapes online? I’d like to hear them. It might change my opinion. Because I feel like George was in on the murders up to his eyeballs, but from watching him testify I can’t pinpoint any “GOTCHA” moments.

@TopHat123

These are the wiretap audios.

The first 2 hours are arguments about what can be played for jury. The actual audios start around the 2 hour mark.

 

[Pru2U]

The truck tapes and wiretaps are all on Youtube under Wcpo9 or Law and Crime. They have the trial in order. There is only one LEO interview of George and they never played it in court. It was an audio interview at the border of MT. They never brought the agent who interviewed him to state otherwise, to what G4 testified to on the last day either. I remember the OJ trial. I watched it all from the chase to the acquittal. Then he wrote a book; If I Did It. He did it.

George is also on the wiretaps from immediately after the Montana interviews. The quality was so bad on those, the only thing I got out of them was a massive headache - but I believe that was the first time we heard from George & his yelling. I’m not listening to that mess again but don’t mind looking them up. When was that? Right after they played AW’s interview?

 

[Betty P]

Remember when Nicole Brown Simpson & her friend were brutally murdered (I’m showing my age now!) & then they saiid OJ was arrested for the crimes? OJ. All I knew about OJ were the rental car commercials, his football commentary & the hapless character he played in those Naked Gun movies & wasn’t he just a friendly, fun, mild-mannered kind of guy?
Then I heard the audio of him ranting, raving & raging at her. Quelle surprise! He has an ugly side. A violent side. And further revelations supported that. OJ, we hardly knew you.
My point is- pay attention to what these defendants say when their masks are off.
And although I didn’t hear the audio of those conversations (I joined this discussion in the last week of this trial- duh! & now I’m kicking myself for missing out on hearing them), from everything I’ve read, George did plenty of screaming on them. What he said OFF the witness stand matters to me just as much (maybe more) as his testimony. I’m not sure if that’s fair, but if I were on the jury, I’d pay particular attention to those conversations.
PS-
If there’s any way I can listen to the surveillance tapes online? I’d like to hear them. It might change my opinion. Because I feel like George was in on the murders up to his eyeballs, but from watching him testify I can’t pinpoint any “GOTCHA” moments.

He puts on a good facade. He's pretty disciplined at keeping a poker face while in court. He has to, his life depends on it. The wiretap tapes tell a different story. I started getting a stress headache after a few minutes listening to them.

 

[Pru2U]

George is also on the wiretaps from immediately after the Montana interviews. The quality was so bad on those, the only thing I got out of them was a massive headache - but I believe that was the first time we heard from George & his yelling. I’m not listening to that mess again but don’t mind looking them up. When was that? Right after they played AW’s interview?

@TopHat123

This is 2017 audio of the first wiretap recordings immediately following the BCI interception & interviews of Wagner family as they crossed border into Montana.
Starts around the 1:22 mark. The sound is horrible. Good luck.

 

[TopHat123]

The truck tapes and wiretaps are all on Youtube under Wcpo9 or Law and Crime. They have the trial in order. There is only one LEO interview of George and they never played it in court. It was an audio interview at the border of MT. They never brought the agent who interviewed him to state otherwise, to what G4 testified to on the last day either. I remember the OJ trial. I watched it all from the chase to the acquittal. Then he wrote a book; If I Did It. He did it.

Thank you!

 

[TopHat123]

@TopHat123

This is 2017 audio of the first wiretap recordings immediately following the BCI interception & interviews of Wagner family as they crossed border into Montana.
Starts around the 1:22 mark. The sound is horrible. Good luck.

Much thanks

 

[arielilane]

Until this trial I had no doubt all four Ws were guilty. Not a doubt! I even stopped following this case, figured it was done after the evidence presented at GWIV’s bond hearing and the confessions. This trial has been bizarre, though, AC opening statements, day after day, week after week with no mention of GW. Bizarre. For me, GW testimony made me think he may be guilty. Too well coached, but his anger showed. He did well on cross, believable, good answers, didn’t let AC put words in his mouth. If he is innocent and the jury believes him, he has a right to be angry at this point. OTOH, if the jury doesn’t believe him, believes JW, then his anger makes murder plausible.

It’s possible he wasn’t there that night and didn’t participate in the planning. But hard to believe he didn’t know until JW’s proffer. We still don’t know what happened that night. JW’s proffer was coached to fit the evidence. AW’s too.

State has not proven its case. For weeks I wondered who was on trial, this week I wonder what are the charges? And I don’t think the W family is as enmeshed as we’ve been told.

Curious why you changed your mind. I've lurked here and followed the case from day one and didn't conclude GW4 guilty until the totality of prosecution's evidence. Besides, he has no alibi night of the murders. He also changed his story about his whereabouts the night of the murders. First, he says he went to bed (after he and his entire family watched a movie) at 12:30 am. He testified that he went to bed at 10:00 night of the murders. He needed to change his story as to where he was night of the murders to remove himself and an attempt to place beyond a reasonable doubt in jurors' minds.

If you aren't lying you don't need to change your story because the truth is the truth. The state exposed a lot of his lies.

IMO

 

[rsd1200]

George is also on the wiretaps from immediately after the Montana interviews. The quality was so bad on those, the only thing I got out of them was a massive headache - but I believe that was the first time we heard from George & his yelling. I’m not listening to that mess again but don’t mind looking them up. When was that? Right after they played AW’s interview?

I think so. I can't listen again either. I had to take breaks the first time around. I remember almost all of the witnesses saying the family fought and yelled all the time, and I believe them. That was BEFORE the murders, so after could have only ramped them up.

 

[gizmobtj]

and it was worthless if not filed in court

Not worthless. He did not take the opportunity to deny his statements

 

[rsd1200]

Curious why you changed your mind. I've lurked here and followed the case from day one and didn't conclude GW4 guilty until the totality of prosecution's evidence. Besides, he has no alibi night of the murders. He also changed his story about his whereabouts the night of the murders. First, he says he went to bed (after he and his entire family watched a movie) at 12:30 am. He testified that he went to bed at 10:00 night of the murders. He needed to change his story as to where he was night of the murders to remove himself and an attempt to place beyond a reasonable doubt in jurors' minds.

If you aren't lying you don't need to change your story because the truth is the truth. The state exposed a lot of his lies.

IMO

BIUBM That is significant. I didn't recall him testifying to the family movie and 12:30 bedtime part, but if he did, and changed horses mid-stream, then that's definitely significant. I'll take your word for it and am okay with what the jury decides. They've seen and heard much more than I have in this case, well, any of us have, except for those on here who may have quietly attended the trial.

 

[gizmobtj]

Agree to disagree because there was a lot more than just the W's claiming abuse. I am not throwing shade on the murder victims but JW also spent time on UHR sleeping with a minor with her parents consent. JMO.

I will not keep debating about it, as it is minors.

Yeah, not a lot of parents of the year in this story ... though the testimony certainly shows the DR and CSsr. were not absent and supported their daughter

 

[arielilane]

Reposting James' tweet for those that may have missed it. BBM

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

Nov 17
They are reviewing more exhibits tonight so the stream is still up. They also might remove death penalty specifications from George since Jake testified - that would remove requirement of jury being sequestered as a death penalty case

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe some of this debacle lay at BCI Trout's feet as well?
BCI supervisor connected to 2016 Pike County murder investigation suspended
Two local attorneys are calling the Pike County mass murder case into question now that a second high-ranking law enforcement officer connected to the case has been suspended.

Michael Trout was widely called the state's lead investigator into the eight Rhoden/Gilley family murders in 2016.

But the Bureau of Criminal Investigations supervisor is off the case - suspended and demoted - after an investigation into how he managed the unit tasked with closing the case.